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Angel Season 2 Watch-through With My Niece

Discussion in 'Season 2' started by thetopher, Jan 13, 2016.

  1. thetopher

    thetopher Member of the Church Of Faith

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    Sineya
    Bizarrely I rarely re-watch this season, even though I know that its really good (possibly the best) Angel has to offer.
    The reasons being that I remember re-watching it a helluva lot right after seeing it for the first time- Angel dark arc blew me away it was so daring- and also I disliked the Pylea ending intensly (for reasons that I may get into much later when we reach that point). Angel works best as a complete arc- from beginning to end, so I was always reluctant to start if I wasn't going to want to finish.
    But now I have no choice! But my niece is here so I should be able to manage...:)

    Anyways:
    Judgement
    It actually shocked me a little as to how much I enjoyed this; from the 'assembling' at the start- with Cordelia succeeding in her acting and Wesley hustling darts (is that even a thing?) to the thoughtful coda at the end this was Angel at its most confident.
    So clear about its direction and what it wanted to say abut its main character this season- and also telling a story. Angel is the guy who rescues the damsels, but does it in a ham-fisted way and so sometimes screws up, feels very bad about screwing up, embarrasses himself as the butt of the joke and then redoubles his efforts to do the right thing.
    The story also makes more use of the character of Gunn right from the start, bringing him into the fold and having him interact with the other cast members was fun to see. Plus a little knowledge from Wesley, a little perspective from Cordelia, and a nice cameo from the W&H's (and a dreamy sounfding Darla) makes this the perfect set-up episode for what's to come.

    And my niece loved it. :) Loved it much more than its Buffy counterpart. Mostly because it was so fast-paced. There was no easing in gently (like Buffy vs. puff-shirt) it was all busy, busy, mission focused, fighting demons, rescuing girl, opps!, brood, pep, more demon fighting, singing :)D), jousting (how more knightly can you make a character when you have them being called a champoin and they joust!).

    There were a couple of hiccups; the opening sequence (I forgot how weird it was) with Lorne The Host- sinister-looking, orned demon- appearing and then singing. o_O Yeah, she's not yet sure about The Host or the idea of a demon Karaoke bar as a meet-up spot idea, but there were lots of other things to distract her. Also she was wondering about W&H and Darla- she found that scene rather subdued. But she liked the call-back to S1 (waaay back when).
    Her favourite bits actually involved Gunn or Angel and the pregnant lady (and that last scene), with her desparing at his competence. Ha! Poor sap. :)
    Other stuff of note:
    wtf?: Singing demon. Also my niece isn't big on cheesy karaoke hits.
    Liked: The opening, with Cordelia and Wesley getting beeped (Angel stole the idea from Buffy I'm sure) and springing into action. Then at the gym where the instructor notices that Angel has no reflection. Angel kicking in the glass slo-mo style. Then sweeps out in style. *there might've been slight swoonage.*
    Loved: Cordelia daintily dropping a weight on a bad guys head!
    Liked: Gunn in the credits. So I guess Gunn gets a thumbs up. :)
    Liked: The big white board of jobs. 'They've been busy.'
    Loved: (about the gym) 'What's not to like?' 'You shower with a lot of men' 'I'll always be a loner.'
    Liked: Cordelia's sneezes. Followed by vision.
    Liked: Dennis throwing a book at Wesley. Basically the show remembering that Cordelia had a ghost.
    Cute: Cordelia talking all tough film noir-like. Aw.
    Loved: 'Or we'll sue your ass and kill your children...I'm kidding Donald, no-one wants a lawsuit.' :D
    Eew: Merle. Though she liked him in that 'he's supposed to be a slimeball stoolie' kinda way.
    Liked: The Host meeting Angel for the first time. Heh, my niece actually thought that maybe he was hitting on Angel. 'Smart and cute.' 'I like the coat' etc.
    Liked: Angel screwing up and killing the wrong demon. His trying to help the lady and her pleas for him to 'Do me a favor. Stop. Helping!'
    Liked: Gunn in general. Gunn to Angel 'Look at you dog, you haven't aged a bit.' Gunn's first meeting with Wes and Cordy. Cordelia trying to talk street and Wes's reaction 'What's he fly?' :D
    Huh?: The lingering shot of an (admittedly cool set) deserted hotel. I did tell my niece that it would be important in the next episode...
    Loved: The obvious paralells between this (supposedly fearsome demon that was acting against its nature) and Angel himself. Angel cofessing that he got cocky 'the light was so bright'. Cordelia giving him a lil' talk. My niece said that Cordelia is becoming like what Xander is to Buffy...

    Liked: The medieval inter-dimensional Tribunal. She thought it wa sa cool idea. Not the sort of thing they could do on Buffy's show.
    Loved: The jousting. The lady asking if Angel is good at anything, Angel telling the horse not to make him look bad, getting a sword stuck in him and then beheading the evil champion. Yay!

    Loved: Angel going to visit Faith in prison. Their conversation which is both sweet and funny 'I had to sing Barry Manilow. In front of people. 'No way! And here I am talking about my petty little problems'. She loves this idea of Angel and Faith sharing their experiences and commiriserating each other on having a crappy day/being in the same boat (a lil' bit).
    'The road to redemption is a rocky path.'
    And we're soon gonna see just how rocky it can get (unless I'm remembering this season wrongly).
     
  2. Taake

    Taake Bella Staff Member

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    Black Thorn
    Oh you're watching the shows simultaneously. How fun!
     
  3. thetopher

    thetopher Member of the Church Of Faith

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    Sineya
    Yeah, I think it works better that way. You can appreciate the Drusilla/Harmony going back and forth. Plus the Fool For Love/Darla crossover is epic stuff. :)

    Oh, I forgot to mention that my niece loved Angel singing, and its revealed that he thinks Barry Manilow is pretty. We watched DB's out-takes at the end. :D
     
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  4. Fuffy Baith

    Fuffy Baith 2017 (and 2016) Cutest BB member

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    Sineya
    Yay! You're back! I think Judgement is a pretty good season opener, it does set up the dynamics and the themes that will get explored in the season. I love that Angel goes to visit Faith! I really wish we had got more scenes like that. Faith and Angel are awesome together!

    I agree! They are both great episodes by themselves, but so much better back to back!
     
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  5. vellavu

    vellavu Scooby

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    Black Thorn
    I'm wondering when Angel stopped visiting Faith, since the Wesley/Faith prison conversation seems to imply that the AI stopped contacting with Faith for a while.

    My best guess is that it's immediately after the pregnant Darla visit.
     
    Samuel Reyes: I agree, sometime mid-Season 2
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  6. Taake

    Taake Bella Staff Member

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    Black Thorn
    Loved as in "haha, Angel's singing" or loved as in she can't hear that well? ;)
     
    thetopher: lol Loved as in 'I cringe and laugh at his attempts'. :)
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  7. Fuffy Baith

    Fuffy Baith 2017 (and 2016) Cutest BB member

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    Sineya
    Did Faith know about Buffy dying again? If so then I'd say Angel visited her probably early s3 to tell her Buffys not dead. But she didn't know about Connor so he stopped before pregnant Darla showed up. There was just no time. But I'm surprised when he came back from under the sea that he didn't visit her. I guess he was to preoccupied with trying to get Cordelia back.
     
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  8. thetopher

    thetopher Member of the Church Of Faith

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    Sineya
    That sounds about right, since Faith's ignorant of baby Connor, teen Connor raised in a hell dimension, Cordy ascending to a higher plane, etc.- all the events of mid S3 onwards.
    I also figure that Angel didn't visit when he went 'dark' (or maybe he did?) and only visited Faith post-Epiphany. But that's just me.

    Are You Now or Have You Ever Been?
    Ah, I love Angel flashback-y episodes (with that one exception, actually one and a half...) and this one- even though its about Angel's past and with no Angelus to be seen- is flat out one of my favourites. A real look into Angel's morally murky past before he met Whistler, before he ever thought about helping the helpless (or the blonde and pretty). We see '50's Angel detatched from humanity, but also choosing to do it in a hotel full of people seemingly as lost as he is. The man is a conundrum and clearly conflicted about his place in the world. Where he is but also where he wants to be.

    And here we have a nicely crafted mystery with sinister undertones of paranoia, secrecy and, above all, shame. What happened all those years ago? The audience is teased with the answer as Cordy and Wes piece things together and Angel remembers his past failure.
    It's cleverly written, atmospheric and with strong guest stars in the period era (especially Julie and Denver), but this is DB's show and he carries the weight of the episode very well. Great stuff that hints at great stuff to come.

    My niece enjoyed it- mostly from an intellectual stand point, trying to work out the brilliantly written mystery- at least until that stunning 'Take 'em all' and Angel just walking out of the hotel. That's shit's dark, man, and it...I don't want to say 'impressed' my niece, but it was like she suddenly had to completely reevaluate this guy from the previous season (and Buffy). The billow-y coated savior and hero. He didn't always see himself as that. He saw himself as the very monster that Julie accused him of being. And monsters don't save people. Maybe they don't murder people (anymore) but they're quite content to let them die...

    Anyway, she was majorly creeped out by the demon and sort of compared it to the one out of Gingerbread- something that feeds on certain emotions by increasing them. A similar sort of mass hysteria with a similar goal, to turn humans on themselves.
    All in all this episode impressed more than than entertained her, if that makes sense.
    Things she thought were cool:
    Whoot! When the photo 'came alive' and we were swept back in time. She thought that was neat.
    Liked: The big 'reveal' that Angel was the creep from room 217. She saw it coming but my niece still lked the set-up.
    Liked: Angel. I'm sure she thought 50's Angel was 'dreamy' or whatever. Anyway, she liked his period 'look'. Better than 70's Angel anyhow.
    Huh?: I actually had to explain some of the stuff about the McCarthy era to her as we went through. Specifically about the televised trials and the 'reds-under-the-bed conspiricy stuff. She wasn't really up on it but found it interesting all the same.
    Liked: The creepy whispering, the voices in people's heads. That guy commiting suicide in the room next to Angel's (I hear a Polka will drive you to that...)
    Loved: Angel busting the P.I's nose.
    Liked: Julie sincerely thanking Angel for helping her out. Their little bonding scene outside the Griffith Observatory.

    Liked: That Angel felt empathy for Julie's situation 'I'm not one thing or the other.' 'I know what that's like' and so he decides to help. I had to expalin what 'passing' meant though, and that it was an actual 'thing'.

    Loved: Denver outing Angel as a vampire and 'pulling that Van Helsing Jr 'crap' on him only for Angel to turn the tables.
    Lol: Denver thinking that Angel was turned in his thirties. And Angel's peeved 'no'.

    Aagh! Julie accusing Angel of being a monster (she thought that Julie was going to ask for help) and then all of them stringing him up and leaving him there.
    Loved: The conversation between the Thusulac and Angel. 'Stick you neck out and they throw a rope around it' Esecially that ending.
    Liked: Wesley and Gunn fighting and Cordelia sayin gthat they were like this on the way over in the car.
    Disliked: How easily the Thesulac demon was defeated after being summoned. It took about five seconds.
    Liked: Angel finding old lady Julie and finally giving her some peace after many years of guilt and regret.
    LIiked: Wesley being paranoid about being called paranoid by the demon.

    Liked: Their moving into the Hyperion. She likes the retro set. :)

    Not a lot of things specifically but she did enjoy the whole thing overall.
    A very educational episode of Angel! :p
    Btw- A lot of people claim that Angel spent the money that Julie stole ('Cause he's despicable see). I didn't see any evidence of that. I doubt it would've been possible anyway, spending that currency almost 50 years later.

    Next week: Gunn and Cordelia do the buddy-buddy thing. Wackiness ensues.
     
  9. Fuffy Baith

    Fuffy Baith 2017 (and 2016) Cutest BB member

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    Sineya
    I like this episode. It's interesting to see what Angel was up to after he got his soul and before Buffy. Although he seemed to have himself together in the 50's but then before he meets Whistler he's all homeless and eating rats. What happened?!

    What is the one exception? I think this is the best Angel flashback episode because most of the actual story is in the flashback, kind of like that submarine episode in s5.
    Yes! :D 50's Angel is totally cute! I love when we get 50's Angel. DB just looks so cute with the hair and clothes. Probably better looking than Buffy s1 Angel. lol
    What was she doing there? Had she been there for 50 years!
    I always assumed that he used that money to buy the Hyperion. Otherwise how could he afford the lease on that place? I was always hoping that they would have done more with the hotel. It's a big place, they could have even rented out some rooms to make money, plus there's that big wasted kitchen.
     
  10. thetopher

    thetopher Member of the Church Of Faith

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    Sineya
    It was that one. The half also comes from Season 5...

    I think my niece liked his look, so different from the usual black/leather coat. Plus she said 50's Angel was 'lonely and vulnerable' and she felt sorry for him getting hanged for trying to help Julie.
    Definitly conflicted about that ending. But she did really like Angel and Julie making amends before she died....Man, I hope he didn't just leave her there:
    'Don't go into that room, dead old lady in it.' :eek::D

    I think the demon had been somehow keeping her alive to feed on her emotions, keeping her trapped there and making sure she was never found.
    Her worst fears (she said that she was terrified of going to jail and being stuck in a confined space) come true..

    Doesn't he talk to David Nabbitt about that- buying the hotel up for a song? He suggests a loan and other such finacial expertise.
    And surely the real estate place would be desperate to unload it after decades.

    Anyway, Angel does have some money from his business right? I mean, its not exactly clear either way but people just state that he spent the stolen money like its fact.

    And a club/lounge area in the back? Lorne discovers it whilst their exploring (hunting something) and says how great it is. They could've set up a nightclub or a restaurant- if Angel was primarily interested in money that is....
     
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  11. Fuffy Baith

    Fuffy Baith 2017 (and 2016) Cutest BB member

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    Sineya
    You don't like the submarine episode? lol. Well we'll talk about that when you get to it. But it does have 50's Angel! lol.
    I'm not sure ho much money AI makes! It never looks like they have a lot of clients, but apparantely enough so that Cordy and Wesley can pay rent. And it's LA, which is not cheap. So they must be charging a lot.

    Angel may not be concerned about money, but Cordy is! I find it hard to believe that she never brought up the idea at some point and Angel just shut her down. But I like the idea of Lorne setting up some sort of business in the back of the hotel. lol.
     
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  12. Smile Time

    Smile Time The Scattered One

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    Sineya
    Cordy is concerned about money because her dad used to have quite a bit of it...and Cordy came to LA in order to become an actress and make loads of money.

    If I remember correctly, "Darla" is filled with flashbacks...
     
  13. thetopher

    thetopher Member of the Church Of Faith

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    Sineya
    Isn't Darla the partner episode to 'Fool For Love'? If so then its a great episode, one of the best on 'Angel.'

    First Impressions
    After two episodes of setting up- both of character and theme- we get a little easing in plot. Simple story but well told that does a good job of fleshing out Gunn's world (something we haven't seen since 'War Zone') and how brutal he has to act to survive in it. It's also has a nice buddy-buddy feel to it- Cordelia and Gunn snarking at each other (beautifully!) on the one hand and the more light-hearted comedy pairing of Wesley and Angel on the other ('why do I have to wear the girl helmet?' :D).
    We also get a better look at Gunn's attitudes, his drive and his anger in general, the way he pushes himself just as hard as he pushes those around him- its one of the better Gunn-centric episodes (then again they tend to be on the weak side).
    Also we have the start of W&H's schem to use Darla against Angel- starting curiously enough with him dreaming almost constantly about her and then waking up tired (given that we find out that at the end of the episode that Darla is actually 'present' during Angel's bedtime we have to wonder exactly how tired Angel is getting and why...)

    My niece's 'first impression' of this episode (see what I did there?) was fairly luke-warm to begin with, the dream opening at Karitas threw her a bit and then the Gunn-plot was decidedly ho-hum and uninvolving....But as things continued on it began to pick up for her. Mostly she enjoyed Cordelia bravely going off alone to save Gunn ('Okay, I'm gonna die. I'm gonna die...') and there almost consistant verbal sparring as they spend the night searching for Angel's car. She also loved a lot of the interactions between Wesley and Angel- Angel's reaction to being woken up and the motorcycle bit. So yeah, she liked the comedy but the rest- pleasent enough but unremarkable. She still seems to like the presence of Gunn and what he brings to the group.

    Other things that 'Impressed' her (okay I'll stop now):
    Weird: The whole Karitas thing with Angel and Darla. She liked the dream-like aspects of it, the two of them dancing. I'm just not sure she likes the club set-up or the Host that much.
    Liked: Cordelia's natural tendancy to rebel against dusting ('this is 'Son of Dust''). Until Wesley reminds her that they could always go back to working out of her place...
    Liked: Gunn describing Wes and Cordy as 'C3PO ansd stick-figure Barbie'. Plus Wesley's prickly response.
    Loved: The reappearance of David Nabbit (urgh), coming in with cape and sword. At leasr Cordelia's happy to see him. My niece loved that Angel just wanted finicial advice from him, and also the fact that all that money talk got Cordelia a bit swoony...(Although I don't particularly like him its weird that we'll never see DN again after this)
    Liked: Wesley smugly calling shotgun to Gunn. Also Cordelia's pleased reaction when Angel tells her she can drive the car. Cute. :)
    Disliked: Gunn beating on the imformant guy. She did like that Angel intervened and took over.
    Huh?: Everyone getting their asses kicked a bit fighting the vamps. Maybe they were tough vamps? Not everybody can have slayer-powers. (And yes, I know that Angel's clearly drained from his dreaming- my niece didn't).
    Liked: Angel and Darla moonbathing (with ice cubes...) and then Angel's reaction to Wesley waking him up.
    Liked: Gunn...Can't breathe...' 'Gunn Can't breathe?' 'I can't breathe!'. And also 'Angel, about the naked thing...' A slash-fic writers delight...:D
    Loved: Everyone realizing that Angel's car isn't where its supposed to be.
    Loved: Wesley to Angel: 'Hop on gorgeous' :D
    Liked: Cordelia not exactly 'blending' at the house party.
    Liked: Cordelia's classic 'foot-in-mouth' speech about being a working girl.

    Liked: Cordelia's quick thinking and bravery that saved a life during the vamp attack. :)
    Aw: Gunn calling Veronica Allona at the hospital. A nice callback to his (seeming) failure to protect her.
    Liked: The reveal that Cordelia left the keys
    Loved: Gunn's reaction on seeing Devac. 'They told me you ugly but damn.'

    Liked: The vampire giving Angel a look after he takes off the lady helmet. Then Angel kicks his ass.
    Meh: The demon was rather easy to kill- therefore he was lame in her opinion.
    Liked: Cordelia's reveal about the danger in her vision. Also her pledge that she isn't giving up on saving Gunn and looking out for him. It's a nice cementing of their friendship.
    Liked: Dream Darla 'looking after' a very contented seeming Angel.
    Eek!: The reveal that Darla is in Angel's room while he dreams about her. This is major ick now that I think about it. :eek:


    Next time: Telekinesis. The power to move things with one's mind. That's all I got really, I though this show was about punching demons in the face. o_O
     
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  14. vellavu

    vellavu Scooby

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    Black Thorn
    What's wrong with David Nabbit?:confused: He's the harmless version of Andrew. I think he's funny!:oops:
     
  15. thetopher

    thetopher Member of the Church Of Faith

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    Sineya
    I don't hate the guy, I just find him a bit irritating and pointless. It's really just the pitch of his voice and the way he scrunches up his face when he speaks.

    I'm well-aware that this is a petty reason to dislike a character- but its the same reason I dislike Holden Webster/Knox- the actor playing them.
    To be fair this final appearance is probably his best.
     
    VisionBoy: Must admit, I was surprised to see his name. I've rewatched Angel far more than Buffy, yet somehow thought David was only in season 1.
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  16. GwenRaiden

    GwenRaiden AKA Apology Girl

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    Black Thorn
    I liked David Nabbit, but Michael Bolton was better (warning: strong language).
     
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  17. thetopher

    thetopher Member of the Church Of Faith

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    Sineya
    Pretty good! :)
    I hope the actor who played DN got work after Angel, which is why he didn't show up again after this. I wish him well.
     
    GwenRaiden: See, I knew him from Office Space before I seen him in AtS, so I was like "wow! Michael Bolton!" when DN appeared. He does lots of voice acting now :)
  18. Fuffy Baith

    Fuffy Baith 2017 (and 2016) Cutest BB member

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    Sineya
    Not a big fan of any Gunn centric episode, I guess this is the better of them. But that's not saying much. On my last Angel rewatch, I found Gunn is a really under utilised character.
    Oh is this the episode where Wesley wakes up a naked sleeping Angel? And there's a "happy" joke in there. It's a good comedic moment.
     
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  19. Mr Trick

    Mr Trick Scooby

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    I don't like the Submarine episode either. Found it a bit boring.

    Anyway, will comment on the reviews for this season when I have refreshed myself on some of the episodes. AYNOHYEB is a real stand out though:)
     
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  20. Bluebird

    Bluebird two by two, hands of blue

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    Black Thorn
    Yeah he did miscellaneous character voices on Futuruma for its entire run. I always picture Roberto the stab-happy robot when I think of Nabbit haha
     
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