1. Thank you for visiting Buffy-Boards. You obviously have exceptional taste. We just want you to know that:
    1. You really should register so you can chat with us!
    2. Ten thousand people can't be wrong.
    3. Buffy-Boards loves you.
    4. See 1 through 3.
    Come on, register already!

Angel Season 5 = Most Boring Season imo

Discussion in 'Season 5' started by Joshua, Aug 31, 2015.

  1. Joshua

    Joshua Huge Spuffy Fan!

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2011
    Messages:
    1,290
    Likes Received:
    75
    Location:
    Sunnydale
    Reputation:
    1,258
    Am I the only one who can't stand this season? There's no Cordelia, Eve and Harmony are the worse characters to be created in the Buffyverse imo. The pros of this season are: Lindsey returns, Cordelia's return for the 5th season and Illyria

    My favorite episodes are the last few eps starting with A Hole In The World.
     
    BuffyBot22 and redruM like this.
  2. thetopher

    thetopher Member of the Church Of Faith

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2013
    Messages:
    7,972
    Likes Received:
    5,933
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    The Moot, England
    Reputation:
    14,539
    Sineya
    The season does take a while to get going, but imo the last half is some top-notch television. Illyria/Wesley, Angel/Spike, Hamilton, Cordy's swansong, Lindsey.

    The downside is, as you said, Eve and Harmony- two of the worst characters ever. Some rather weak, pointless eps in the first half, a certain directionless-ness for a lot of it.
    I also find the location change a little bit jarring, also the fact that they all have really different roles now- mostly Fred and Gunn. It's fresh, but at the same time...I dunno, I miss how it was in seasons 2-4.
     
    BuffyBot22, Hunga Munga and VisionBoy like this.
  3. Samuel Reyes

    Samuel Reyes Chilling in SunnyD

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2015
    Messages:
    1,520
    Likes Received:
    1,426
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Texas
    Reputation:
    1,650
    I thought I was the only one. The episodes were good but overall I found it rather droll. Maybe it was the return to the 'case of the week' format during the first half (rather than the arc-heaviness of previous seasons) that caught me off-balance. The second half of the season was pretty good, though, starting at around 'You're Welcome.' Pity that Fresley never took off :(, but I liked watching Illyria grow accustomed to her new Earthly environment through her interactions with Wes; she was definitely a character I wish we'd been able to see more of.
     
  4. Silverspike

    Silverspike Scooby

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2008
    Messages:
    1,565
    Likes Received:
    754
    Reputation:
    2,757
    Oh I loved season 5. One of my fav ever AtS seasons. :D
     
    bespangeled: You and me both!
    Spanish Flame and bespangeled like this.
  5. white avenger

    white avenger white avenger

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2006
    Messages:
    14,190
    Likes Received:
    2,789
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    rome, georgia
    Reputation:
    25,476
    Season 5 was the first Season that I regularly watched (I kept hoping that Buffy would make a guest appearance at some point, don't ask me why) It was all pretty much new to me, so I didn't have anything to compare it to. Later, watching from the beginning via DVD, it was the earlier Seasons that seemed strange to me.
     
    PreferSpike and Silverspike like this.
  6. Mr Trick

    Mr Trick Scooby

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2015
    Messages:
    9,269
    Likes Received:
    4,668
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    London, UK
    Reputation:
    8,038
    No I think its one of the best seasons. It has a couple of weak episodes The Girl in Question and whatever the Submarine was called. But I think it feels fresh, has just about everything and builds very nicely towards a gripping climax. I also have a soft spot for the Fred-Spike stuff too. Now there's a ship!

    I will defend Harmony to my grave though. She's annoying in an entertaining way, that is the point of the character and making her receptionist was a neat twist given her history. Eve we agree on:D
     
    Spanish Flame: Yes!! Spike and Fred!!! Also Agree on Harmony!!! :)
    PreferSpike: Glad to see another sees potential in Spike and Fred. I was shocked to hear they don't go there!
    Wesley Junior and Silverspike like this.
  7. sosa lola

    sosa lola Scooby

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2007
    Messages:
    4,050
    Likes Received:
    2,036
    Reputation:
    5,457
    I liked it better than S4. It was fun and I didn't mind the case of the week routine, it was why I love S1 to bits. S4 was too grim and messy. S5 they took lots of chances, though the main cast could have used more women in the mix. I wish they kept Cordelia. I found Harmony to be funny, but I did hate Eve.
     
    Wesley Junior, Silverspike and gite63 like this.
  8. gite63

    gite63 Gone

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    Messages:
    1,888
    Likes Received:
    1,039
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Brazil
    Reputation:
    1,844
    Sineya
    I love Season 5 (and S2), better than S4 (although I very much like The Beast and Angelus). The interaction between Angel and Spike (the girl, the big fight, all of it), Fred/Illyria/Wesley, the Circle of the Black Thorn (all its members, all of it), Cordelia (amazing), Lorne (Life of the Party, great episode with him), Harmony, Lindsay, Nina the werewolf, Angel The puppet! The final episode, epic. The only episode I don't like (much) is The Cautionary Tale of Numero Cinco.

    Exactly, not all characters have to be complex, with deep personalities, meaningful backgrounds, multiple goals etc. What makes a show good it's not just these (they being the most important ones, of course), but a mix of complexity and some characters with shallow personalities to balance things, to add a certain lightness here and there. You have to have humor in your life, otherwise things become just dull!
     
  9. Mr Trick

    Mr Trick Scooby

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2015
    Messages:
    9,269
    Likes Received:
    4,668
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    London, UK
    Reputation:
    8,038


    And the character works because she is a supporting character and is used in the right context and that is getting under people's feet and those who she seem the least likely to have anything to do with her such as like the brief affair with Spike in S4. Used like that the character works fine.
     
    gite63 likes this.
  10. jom

    jom Potential

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2015
    Messages:
    368
    Likes Received:
    134
    Gender:
    Male
    Reputation:
    262
    Are you freaking kidding?. Season 5 angel is the best season not only of Angel but of The Buffyverse.
     
  11. gite63

    gite63 Gone

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    Messages:
    1,888
    Likes Received:
    1,039
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Brazil
    Reputation:
    1,844
    Sineya
    A supporting character with ties to the Scoobies – she used to be a Cordette, a student at Sunnydale High. As a human being, Harm was shallow and stupid as one can be; turned vampire, she just perfected her worst traits...

    Well, actually, she turned out to be not that stupid - she was ambitious, and saw that if she kept killing, it would not give her what she wanted: money and fame, and not live in a damp crypt. That Felicia actress from one of the IDW books wanted to became a vampire in order to live and be young forever, and the first thing she did was to kill - live on TV - the woman who was interviewing her!

    She started working for Angel and now, she is famous, rich and powerful – by founding the Reform Vampirism movement, she “saved countless of lives” (!!!) - according to Clem, with what Angel later agreed – and is a leader of her people.

    So, yeah, I like Harmony and how she was used on BtVS, Angel and now in the comics.
     
    Mr Trick likes this.
  12. thetopher

    thetopher Member of the Church Of Faith

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2013
    Messages:
    7,972
    Likes Received:
    5,933
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    The Moot, England
    Reputation:
    14,539
    Sineya
    I actually found Harmony entirely pointless in S5 of Angel. It defied any kind of logic that she was there. She didn't do anything- she wasn't even that funny.

    I also loathe her in the comics- the whole 'reformation of vampires' thing is one of the stupidest/weakest parts of the comics imo. And that's saying something.
     
  13. Mr Trick

    Mr Trick Scooby

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2015
    Messages:
    9,269
    Likes Received:
    4,668
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    London, UK
    Reputation:
    8,038
    I've not read the comics so don't know about that. I just like the twisted logic of her working for Angel considering her past with Spike. I guess she could have been featured more, but I found her scenes pretty funny in S5.
     
    gite63 likes this.
  14. bespangeled

    bespangeled Scooby

    Joined:
    May 26, 2014
    Messages:
    3,389
    Likes Received:
    2,078
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Tucson
    Reputation:
    5,742
    Black Thorn
    I like TGIQ - everyone focuses on the Spike and Angel adventure (guilty pleasure here) but the fact that Illyria changes into Fred, show the much knowledge of human needs and a desire to cater to them is both intriguing and gut wrenching. Her willingness to be Fred for Wesley is a huge step forward in her evolution as a character.

    Overall, I like season 5 - a lot better than the Jasmine arc of season 4!
     
    Fuffy Baith: I also like TGIQ and the Fred/Illyria/Wesley was great!
  15. Mr Trick

    Mr Trick Scooby

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2015
    Messages:
    9,269
    Likes Received:
    4,668
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    London, UK
    Reputation:
    8,038
    I like the Illyria stuff, but find the Angel-Spike stuff a bit lame. Don't mind them revisting the issue of Buffy it being the final season, but think they should have found a better way to do it.

    Oddly enough 4 might be my favourite season at least on the first run through despite how terrible the Jasmine arc is. That could change though;)
     
  16. bespangeled

    bespangeled Scooby

    Joined:
    May 26, 2014
    Messages:
    3,389
    Likes Received:
    2,078
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Tucson
    Reputation:
    5,742
    Black Thorn
    Spangel here - however much those two episodes disappoint others - they really float my boat. :D

    There are aspects of season 4 that I love - the Faith arc in particular. But Jasmine...meh.
     
    Silverspike likes this.
  17. VisionBoy

    VisionBoy Scooby

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2014
    Messages:
    1,072
    Likes Received:
    1,042
    Gender:
    Male
    Reputation:
    1,449
    Sineya
    I think of Angel's 5 seasons, I'd probably consider season 5 to have the weakest start personally. But when it gets going, it really gets going and I like the season overall. I do miss Cordy and I don't particularly like Eve or Harmony; but it's grown on me a lot.
     
    thetopher likes this.
  18. Ethan Reigns

    Ethan Reigns Scooby

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2012
    Messages:
    3,794
    Likes Received:
    2,416
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Canada
    Reputation:
    6,515
    Sineya
    Angel Season 5 is the best of all seasons in my mind. It answers the question: what if AI could cease their endless struggling and have all research and all facilities at their disposal? In other words, what if something went right? We saw four seasons of how people cope with a shoestring budget and inadequate resources. It is interesting and just as instructive about the character of the characters to see what happens when there is abundance - what do people do when they can do anything?

    Harmony is one of the characters I like (as a TV character - I would not like her in real life) - she serves the purpose of Andrew on Buffy without the nerdy depression of Andrew. Eve, however, is no substitute for Lilah. Oh well, she may be dead but she is still an employee.
     
    gite63 and Mr Trick like this.
  19. Mr Trick

    Mr Trick Scooby

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2015
    Messages:
    9,269
    Likes Received:
    4,668
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    London, UK
    Reputation:
    8,038


    This last bit is spot on. Difference is unlike Andrew on Buffy she is funny, but more importantly she's not overused, she is a support character, she is never used as one of a seasons BB.
     
    gite63 likes this.
  20. redruM

    redruM Potential

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2015
    Messages:
    361
    Likes Received:
    229
    Gender:
    Male
    Reputation:
    507
    I just finished the series for the first time a few days ago. Here are my thoughts...

    In season 7 of Buffy, there was a big bad looming every step of the way, tormenting our heroes & heroines. Nothing of the sort happens in the final season of Angel. Instead, what we have is a montage of loosely connected monster-of-the-week episodes. The big bad is supposed to be Wolfram & Hart -- trying to figure out why they gave Angel co. the keys to the palace, but that seems to take a back seat to the monsters of the week tbh.

    From what I gathered, the point was to tear down the dichotomy between good and bad. This was also hinted at in Season 4, when the Powers That Be are revealed to essentially be puppet masters obsessed with power. The last two episodes of S5 illustrate to the viewer that power is more important than the fight between good and evil, because neither really exists.

    But... as far as quality television goes, I have to agree. The season didn't have any urgency to it. In S7 of Buffy there was always this sense of having to get stuff done as quickly as possible because the big bad was always around the corner. In Angel, though, the final season is full of one-off episodes. I expect that from the first season of a show, not the last...

    S5 was definitely full of feels. The 100th episode with Cordelia probably has the saddest scene of the series. I really wish they did something different with her, the show feels like it is missing something after Season 4. Despite how much I disliked the idea of making her evil, the Angelus arc was the high point of the series for me; and possibly the highest point of both Buffy AND Angel combined.
     
    thetopher, Joshua and GwenRaiden like this.