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Anything Wrong With Season 3?

Discussion in 'Season 3' started by thetopher, Jun 29, 2014.

  1. MarlieTheSlayer

    MarlieTheSlayer Bangel shipper

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    Faith should have kissed Buffy on the lips!
    Xander/Willow shouldn't have happened (too late).

    I like Amends but I never understood how quickly Angel went from "I have to kill myself blabla" to happily walking with Buffy hand in hand on the street as soon as it started to snow.
    Did he immediately recognized it as a sign that he deserved to live? Buffy's speech didn't seem to have a big effect on him. Maybe I just have to rewatch it sometime soon :p
     
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  2. Anointed One

    Anointed One The Soul Controller

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    I disliked the way they introduced new characters seemingly to make the core Scoobies look better. Wesley and Faith's sole purposes seemed to be to make Giles and Buffy more appreciated as Watcher and Slayer. Season 3 was also the start of Buffy's annoying arguments and holier-than-thou subbornness.
     
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  3. caitaintdead

    caitaintdead caiters gonna cait

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    Black Thorn
    The way Willow and Xander was played out didn't really work for me. I don't think it was necessary and I would have preferred that the core four were all kept platonic. Xander's feelings for Buffy never had to be actualised so I see no reason why Willow's feelings for Xander should have been. I also don't understand how they could have gone from feeling extreme lust for each other to purely platonic feelings that are never really spoken about again. I actually would have preferred a storyline centred around Cordelia wanting to wait to have sex but feeling too scared to tell Xander that she wanted to wait so breaking up with him. While Xander seeks solace for his rejection in the arms of Faith, Cordelia has a heart to heart with Buffy about the act of losing your virginity. Cordelia would have had room for some beauties "Seeing as how you lost your virginity to a guy that tried to kill you and all your friends, well I thought you'd be a good person to talk to". It would have been nice to see Buffy and Cordelia bond, and Buffy stick up for Xander being an ultimate nice guy and would be happy to wait anyway. Cordelia has realised that she let go of something special with Xander and goes to find him only to find him with Faith.
     
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  4. Fuffy Baith

    Fuffy Baith 2017 (and 2016) Cutest BB member

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    Sineya
    So I like most of this, the only thing is I think Cordelia is not a virgin. But I think that she could have maybe done what Oz did and just ask to wait for it and not rush it. Cause it would show that she really had feelings for Xander. But I like the idea of him sleeping with Faith and Cordelia finding out and feeling lightly betrayed or something. I think the Xander/Willow thing should have just ended with the one kiss in Homecoming.

    But yea there are a few things that people have mentioned that are bad with the season, but overall I think it's solid. Every season has their problems or things I would change, and s3 has the least. Any complaints by me are really just getting nit picky. Like the Fuffy kiss, which would have been awesome, but doesn't make the season less awesome. I think maybe a little bit more of the mayor, would have been nice. Too bad they didn't cast the actor in s2 and they could have set him up earlier. More Mr. Trick, more Faith, more werewolf Oz; and I agree about the Angel thing. If they reworked the early episodes I would have preferred to wait for him to come back at the end of ep 4 or 5, and keep him out of the credits.
     
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  5. caitaintdead

    caitaintdead caiters gonna cait

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    Black Thorn
    Having read what you said I agree. Would have made more sense seeing that it generally thought by fans that Cordelia was not a virgin at this time. Perhaps Xander could have seen it as Cordelia telling him he wasn't interested instead?
     
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  6. Fuffy Baith

    Fuffy Baith 2017 (and 2016) Cutest BB member

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    Sineya
    Yea exactly. Like Xander would think it's an insult that she would have sex with other guys and not him. But Cordelia would think it's a good thing, because she actually has feelings for him and doesn't want to rush it or ruin it. And then he goes off and sleeps with Faith, and Cordelia finds out and is heart broken and we can still get The Wish.
     
    caitaintdead: Perfection!!!
    thetopher: Good idea.
    Mr Trick: Like your thinking!
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  7. RomanticSoul

    RomanticSoul I AM GROOT

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    Faith's over the top badness. We get it already, you are bad. But I would have liked more scenes with Buffy/Faith long before the fallout. Also Faith kisses people on the forehead? The hell?

    The back and forth with Buffy and Angel. Good grief girl make up your mind. And once you make a decision stick to it. In hindsight I would have loved for Amends to be Angel's and Cordelia's exit episode like originally planned. Both were just in a waiting pattern for the rest of the Season.

    There was just so much wrong with the Xander/Willow hookup I wouldn't know where to begin. That Willow would be curious sure, she's only been crushing on the guy forever. But Xander never had any interest, so why do it. And the aftermath was just as crazy. Willow gets her boyfriend back and completely checks out of her friendship with Xander and Xander becomes Cordelia's punching bag. It takes two to tango so have Willow suffer some consequences too. Cordelia's irrational belief that it's all Buffy's fault she was cheated on just makes this whole thing even more redundant.

    Dead Man's Party for which there is not enough bile in the world. Also the quick patchup of problems and relationships that sometimes happened. Everbody fight, everbody fight zombies, everybody fine. There should have been more of or a storyarc early in the Season that dealt with the fallout from Becoming.

    Xander incites murder and no one sees anything wrong with that but Faith accidentally kills someone and it's the end of the world? What?

    The cruciamentum (sp?) really should have been a slayer test that made sense. The way it's set up it would go against the Council's way of thinking. Setting up a test that most likely kills a slayer I get. That way these girl's don't get too old and reach a point where they might start thinking for themselves. But the way it's set up it would only reward those slayer's with a lot of indivituality because they need to rely on something other than slayer skills.
     
  8. Sternbeeere

    Sternbeeere Glory´s sane(?) groupie

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    To me, season 3 has a lot of meaningful episodes and as far as i can see the least amount of plot holes, which is great. However, it has far too many Bangel moments, which lead to nowhere. I do not like Angel as a character, he is far too easily influenced by others (Joyce, the Mayor, Buffys friends) and has no place in the seasons dynamics. Also there should have been more Faith and Buffy interaction, Bad Girls had so much potential on that matter, i think it would be good, if some episodes shortly before or after that one would elaborate on the Buffy /Faith theme more. Ideally for me, Bangel would have been ended earlier and Buffy and Faith would have gotten closer together before Faith had gone bad. An other point, which had to less attention is the relationship between Faith and the Mayor, which i find very interesting, since it has ambiguity in it. The "bad guy" showing strong positive emotions towards a young lost girl makes him not a purely evil figure/ shows that people are not only evil or only good.
     
  9. Buffy Summers

    Buffy Summers Yataro Staff Member

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    Sineya
    How do Joyce and The Mayor influence Angel? (That's not a criticism, I just never noticed that.)
     
  10. Scooby Corps

    Scooby Corps Fly! Be free, little bird, you defy category!

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    Joyce approached Angel and told him to leave Sunnydale for Buffy's sake. Wilkins did this whole speech in "Choices" where he pointed out that Angel could make Buffy never happy and he was being selfish.
     
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  11. sosa lola

    sosa lola Scooby

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    I think the whole Willow/Xander kissage was only done to break up Xander and Cordelia so that Cordelia can join Angel in his show after S3. They could have had Cordelia break up with Xander in the end of S3 because she wanted to go to LA, and Xander didn't want to leave his friends behind. Mutual break up with tears and respect, maybe some goodbye sex.
     
  12. Monkey Pants

    Monkey Pants Bored Now

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    Black Thorn
    Season 3 is my favorite Buffy season and the only season that I feel is almost completely perfect. That being said, I would have:
    -Had Faith a lot more in the first half of the season, and had her and Buffy get really close really fast. It would be like their scenes in Amends and Bad Girls except constant :). I don't understand why she only had more screen time when she went evil. I think it's because at first she was only supposed to stick around for three episodes like Kendra.
    -Made Faith's crush on Buffy explicit.
    -Only had Angel come back for like three episodes. The Bangel drama dragged on for far too long and he was such a cock block for Fuffy. Like, they're getting along till they have to fight over him in Revelations. Than Faith comes over for Christmas till Angel shows up all depressed and emo :mad:.
    -Original kiss on the lips!!!! Ugh.
    -Vamp Willow in one more episode.
    -I could do without Willow/Xander, especially all the kisses after the first one.
    However this season is still amazingggg!
     
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  13. Guy

    Guy Scooby

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    Black Thorn
    Season 3 always felt like the least focused season to me. Almost all the various parts are good (Faith as a villain, the Mayor as a big bad, Giles' and Buffy's arc that ends with them leaving the council, etc...), but nothing gets a lot of focus, and as a result, nothing is REALLY good. That's why 'Graduation Day' isn't REALLY powerful, IMO. I mean, it's a good episode, but it doesn't have the same feeling of finality and satisfaction that we got in 'Prophecy Girl', or 'Becoming', or 'The Gift', or 'Grave', or 'Chosen'. Season 2, on the other hand, was really really focused, which is why the ending with Buffy and Angel is SO powerful.

    So season 3 should have been different in these ways, IMO:

    - Lose Angel entirely, or almost entirely. His entire arc in that season is just a much weaker version of his season 2 arc. If you have to include him, bring him back from hell near the end of the season, and immediately have Buffy say "we can't be together", so he can go to his spin-off. He serves no purpose in season 3.
    - WAY more Faith. Subtextual or not, Faith is Buffy's love interest in season 3. The emotional power of the finale needs to come from the Buffy-Faith relationship, whether romantic or platonic. Faith should have been a regular cast member in season 3, and she should have had WAY more screentime.
    - since Angel wouldn't be in the first half of the season to create angst, Mr. Trick should have a much bigger role. He can be the mini-Big-Bad of the first half of the season, like Spike was in season 2.
    - The Mayor needed a lot more screentime too. At the very least, we should have seen WHY he even wanted to turn into a big snake. Also, he should have had an episode in which he HURT the scoobies seriously, like Angelus in 'Passion'. And I would have liked more confrontation scenes between the Mayor and Giles, because they are supposed to be 2 sides of the same coin, like Buffy and Faith.
    - Faith should have had a much more satisfying ending in that season. Her coma always felt like a cop-out - they didn't have Buffy go all the way and become dark by killing her, and they didn't lose the character of Faith, they just had cheap, fake drama with no real consequences.
    - 'Dead Man's Party' could have been a lot better. Mostly the confrontation scene.

    Yeah, that's mostly it.

    Also, this isn't a complaint - I never understood what people have against the Willow-Xander "clothes-fluke". It was consistent with the characters, it fit their arcs (Xander starts season 3 as an asshole and grows to be kinder, so cheating on Cordy is part of his asshole phase. Willow starts season 3 as weak an impressionable and grows to be strong, so having an affair with Xander is part of her impressionable phase). Also, season 2 ended with Xander telling a comatose Willow he loves her, so the affair felt like it had basis in previous develoments. I thought it was a good, interesting storyline.
    --- Double Post Merged, Jul 12, 2016 ---
    I also liked that Joss gave me something I wanted in a way that I didn't want: I wanted a Willow-Xander realtionship in season 1 and season 2, but by giving that relationship a pay-off in season 3, when I was already invested in the Cordy-Xander and Willow-Oz relationships, the storyline was a lot more emotionally-confusing and interesting, to me.

    As for the aftermath, I liked it too. The end of 'Lovers Walk' was heartbreaking as it should have been, and Xander and Willow moved on in logical ways - Xander was the more guilty party in the affair IMO, and he was an asshole in general at that point (which Willow wasn't), so it made sense that Cordy dumped him forever while Willow got another chance with Oz. And since Willow was trying to make things good with Oz again, it made sense that she just never showed attraction to Xander again - she learned her lesson. And I really liked the way Willow tried to "seduce" Oz in 'Amends', with the Barry White and everything:

    "Well, you know... we're alone, and we're both... mature, younger people, and, and so... We could... I-I'm ready to... With you... We could do that thing."

    Willow is just the cutest.
     
    sosa lola: I like your comment about Xander/Willow. It is refreshing to see a different perspective. I think I hate the aftermath of the Clothes Fluke where Xander and Willow forget it ever happened than the cheating itself.
    Monkey Pants: Season 3 is my favorite, but I really like these ideas. Especially more Faith and no Angel! But I'm glad that Faith went into a coma instead of dying.
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  14. Guy

    Guy Scooby

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    Black Thorn
    Monkey Pants:
    I'm glad Faith didn't die too, she's one of my favorite characters. I just think she could/should have had a more satisfying ending in 'Graduation Day'. I don't know exactly how, but I know that what we got in season 3 never felt satisfying enough to me.
     
  15. Mr Trick

    Mr Trick Scooby

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    As for the Willow/Xander thing? I think some people tend to hate it more because it is unlikeable and don't like seeing Oz and Cordy hurt rather than because the storyline doesn't work. I get the whole it came a year too late thing. But then because of the start of the Willow-Oz relationship in S2 then it actually makes more sense having it in S3. I think you need to have awhile for Willow and Oz to grow as a couple first, otherwise them being broken up doesn't mean so much.

    As for flaws in the season?
    - Don't like or buy how the scoobies and Joyce (well maybe I buy it with Joyce;)) treat Buffy in Deadman's Party.
    - Think the monster of the week is too weak in Deadman's party. I too think there were a few weak MOTW.
    - Faith should have been in two or three extra episodes in first half of the season just to sell her importance to the season and the relationship with Buffy.
    - Angel was reintroduced too early. Should have been mid-season imo.
    - Scott Hope was ****ing terrible!:D Buffy didn't need another boyfriend pre-Angel's return let alone one that lame.
    - Would have kept Miss Post around for a few episodes longer to sell the divide between Buffy and Faith and because I quite liked her as a character.
    - It was a waste killing Buffy's counselling off after only one episode. There was more to explore there.
     
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  16. HowiMetdaSlayer

    HowiMetdaSlayer Occasionally, I am callous and strange.

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    I think that the Xander/Willow affair was kind of a natural progression given the events in the season 2 finale. I think that the Buffy/Angel was dragged out for another season.
    No offense to the Amends episode, but overall, I think that they should've left it at Becoming part 2.
     
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  17. Smile Time

    Smile Time The Scattered One

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    Sineya
    After rewatching this season, I found a couple of other things wrong with it:

    *Cordy was useless for most of the season (after "Lover's Walk").

    *I could have lived without the whole Wes/Cordy thing.

    *Bangel dragged out for a little too long.
     
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  18. Mr Trick

    Mr Trick Scooby

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    Think the point was that Cordy felt on the outside of the group post her break-up with Xander. Yeah they could have done a bit more with her but I can understand why they took the path they did. Also, it was something different for the Cordy character to be the outsider.

    I enjoyed the Cordy/Wes thing for what it was. Could see why the would be attracted and I do think Cordy partly did it to get at Xander:D
     
  19. Cherchezlafemme

    Cherchezlafemme Townie

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    I never liked the Willow/Xander stuff.

    I would get rid of "Beauty and the Beasts" (ironic, considering it was the very first episode of BtVS I ever watched).

    I was annoyed by what they did with Scott/Buffy. I get that Angel was her soulmate, yadda yadda yadda, but in hindsight, the entanglement of "you're not a normal girl/you'll never be a normal girl" with Buffy's love life troubles me. All of her romantic/sexual relationships were riddled with dysfunction, and it kind of says that a woman can't "have it all" to use a cliche. That Buffy couldn't function healthily as a Slayer and as a woman; she was doomed to effed up love affairs.
     
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  20. Mr Trick

    Mr Trick Scooby

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    Think their was room for Buffy to start the process of seeing guys again (though the third episode of the season seemed a bit soon?). Its just a shame that Scott was such a awfully written character. Its one of the things that the writers messed up most on the show are the stop gap boyfriends Buffy have.