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Buffy Classics

Discussion in 'Comics' started by Foxy, Jan 22, 2017.

  1. Mylie

    Mylie Scooby

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    I definitely agree with this. I enjoyed it for the scoobies interactions and dynamics, but like you, I didn't really feel the plot and wasn't really interested in it except for what it meant to the characters. I think one of the problems for me is also that lost episodes work if the plot isn't complicated or meant as this epic thing that happened and have effects on the characters. Because for me, if that was the case then those storylines should have been on the show and we should have seen a fallout from it. For me, lost episodes work if they can fill gaps of things we couldn't see on the show. They shouldn't create gaps.
     
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  2. Mylie

    Mylie Scooby

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    I just noticed this post!! I went to check back on the list you provided earlier to see what you said about The Heart of A Slayer because I just finished it and realized I had missed this post for some reason.

    You make me want to put down volume 5 a bit and go back to volume 4 to see if your predictions were correct lol

    Oh and by the way, I enjoyed Heart of A Slayer alright but I felt like there wasn't much direction to the story. It was ok. I'd say I enjoyed more things in Blood of Carthage but at least this one didn't go on forever, so I wouldn't know which I prefer between the 2. Oh and Riley getting attacked by the monster had absolutely no repercussions? Like what was the point of that? We don't even see what happens to him after he gets knocked out, it's weird.
     
  3. Mylie

    Mylie Scooby

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    I finished Omnibus volume 4!

    Stinger/Mall Rats/Who Made Who were really underwhelming.
    I hated The Hollower. It had so many continuity issues, didn't feel like Angel at all and the artwork was horrible.
    I love the idea for Double Cross, it had a lot of potential and some moments were nice. But the artwork was a bit weak and the part about Angel losing air because he's getting strangled... made little sense lol.

    So in general I'm not a fan of volume 4 but I'm still glad I read it and even more glad I finished it and can now fully move on to volume 6 and beyond.
     
  4. Mylie

    Mylie Scooby

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    ok I'm pretty much talking to myself in here lately but I just wanted to say I also finished volume 5 tonight!

    I enjoyed it a lot more than volume 4. Haunted was the only one I really loved but there were some good stuff that I enjoyed in all of the stories. The Oz one was interesting and worked really well with what happened on the show.
     
  5. The Ferg

    The Ferg Mine is an evil laugh!

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    Don't worry I'm still reading every post! I just don't have much to say some time. Oz is actually one of the few stories I skipped. Did anything else stand out? Past Lives was my favorite from the Omnibus 6, and the quality overall gets quite a bit better in my opinion. This is when Tom Fassbender starts, and he stays on for a while.
     
  6. Mylie

    Mylie Scooby

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    I guess Blood of Carthage also stood out for the characterization which I loved. But the story itself was meh.

    And Cemetary of Lost Love was fun.

    I haven't read Omnibust 6 yet but I'm excited to read it. You've mentionned Past Lives a few times and now I'm really intrigued.
     
  7. Mylie

    Mylie Scooby

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    I just read City of Despair and sfdhsjdhbjfh

    I loved it a lot, probably my favorite short story so far.

    Buffy's stuff with her mom was nice and I loved Bangel seeing each other in that dream/universe. It was well thought. And then the fight and hug. The whole thing felt very much true to their dynamic which I loved. I think it's the first time I really feel like this is really Bangel while reading the comics.
     
  8. The Ferg

    The Ferg Mine is an evil laugh!

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    Hey, sorry I've been pretty lazy about forum posting lately. Have you gotten through any more comics yet?

    Unfortunately, City of Despair was one of the stories I didn't get to, so I can't really comment on it... although you are making me want to check it out lol.
     
  9. Mylie

    Mylie Scooby

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    Yes, I've read Jonathan, Giles: Beyond the Pale, One Small Promise and Punish Me With Kisses. They were all just ok though Punish Me With Kisses is kind of adorable. I wasn't a fan of the episode Superstar so I didn't enjoy Jonathan much even though I could tell the quality of the writing was better, etc.

    I've started Past Lives last night. I'm a bit put off by the artwork but I'll try to keep an open mind.
     
  10. The Ferg

    The Ferg Mine is an evil laugh!

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    Don't worry, Cliff Richards still does the Buffy half.
     
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  11. Mylie

    Mylie Scooby

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    I finished Past Lives and I enjoyed it a lot! It wasn't perfect by any means but it did give me some aww feelings. I loved seeing everyone together again (Cordelia/Xander, Giles/Wesley, Angel/Giles and of course Buffy/Angel). Angel's feelings about Alexa reminded me of how he felt about Faith when she was at her worst. You can tell he wanted to help her and he felt responsible and like her anger was justified but at the same time he doesn't really want to die? And it ended up being more than about him too so. I'm confused about the timeline though. Where would this crossover take place within season 4? Angel knew about Riley so it had to be after The Yoko Factor but it can't really happen there because Primeval kind of happens soon after that and the scoobies were not on speaking terms between those 2 episodes. It's probably after Restless but before season 5 then?

    I'd say it's my 2nd or 3rd favorite story so far after Haunted (and maybe City of Despair, I wouldn't know which I prefer because I wasn't a fan of the beginning of Past Lives while I loved the entirety of City of Despair).
     
  12. matt124

    matt124 Potential

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    I really love the Buffy classics so much. Infact had they done an animated series the bad blood arc *so* should be animated for it as a storyline.
     
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  13. The Ferg

    The Ferg Mine is an evil laugh!

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    I hadn't thought of it before, but I totally agree. Although the first few would be a trudge to get through, each issue would've worked really nicely as a 20 minutes episode, and Bad Blood would've been perfect.

    What were some of your other favorites? ...and least favorites?
     
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  14. matt124

    matt124 Potential

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    Your right about that, with some being hard to get through. But they would work nicely for a 20 min episode.

    Love all the collection books of the classics all in order of the series. It was so nice to finally get hold of issues I never had.

    other Favorites;

    The Origin - LOVED it, so good to see a proper origin story told. I kinda wished they turned it into a television movie prequel and aired it in summer. It could of been cooler if it ended with Darla and leading into the very first scene, with cameo's of the core cast in sunnydale high school when Buffy and her mother arrive in town in their new house.

    Slayer, Interrupted.

    The Latest Craze

    Play with Fire

    Bad Dog

    The Hollower

    Double Cross

    Haunted - Loved this story set between season 3 and 4. Loved how they foreshadowed events and Cordelia got her exit.

    Ring of Fire - Loved this one. So could of been a real episode in season 2.


    Least favourites;

    Note from the underground

    Lost & Found

    Rock N' Roll All Night
     
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  15. The Ferg

    The Ferg Mine is an evil laugh!

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    Yea, I think it's pretty clear that Ring of Fire and Haunted are the best. I'm super surprised by your dislike of Note from the Underground and Lost & Found though... I really dug 'Note.' I mean, sure, it was definitely simplistic and very surface-level-y, but I guess that's just exactly what I wanted. It was billed to me as the Buffy version of a bombastic comic book event, and it totally delivered on those terms. To be fair, I don't remember Lost & Found much.. it just read as 'part 1' to Death of Buffy to me, which I really liked. What didn't you like about it?

    Also, I'm a sucker for canon talk. What do you view as "official" canon (if that even matters to you)?
     
  16. matt124

    matt124 Potential

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    Oh my bad, Lost and Found was part of the Death of Buffy arc. I got confused with the story with the infestation of insects and Giles had a new girlfriend. Again It has been so long since I read them, I might have confused the titles.

    Again I have gotten titles confused, I thought note from the underground was the buffy/angel crossover story where they fight, and they hugged to return to the real world or whatever it was.

    So this was the story where Buffy meet Pike right. Oh I did like that story, not my favorite. It wasn't bad.

    As for canon talk. Well I go by my own personal head canon. Like I know people say the comics season 8 etc. are canon because they are written by the writers of the show. But I treat it as its own medium separate from the show. Because at any moment we get a new buffy live action spin-off or show, then the comics are no longer canon right.

    But again in my head canon, I have included them. And many other novels and comics and had Buffy had more episodes per season including these stories. Just for fun.

    I have some thoughts, but what do you view as ''official canon" or what is your own head canon.
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2017
  17. The Ferg

    The Ferg Mine is an evil laugh!

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    Shit dude, I just read them all a few months ago and I still can't remember some of them off the top of my head, especially the early one-offs. And to be fair, at first I thought Lost & Found was the The Body tie-in, which I thought was awful.
    I'm still missing a few from the classic Dark Horse stuff. Have you read the Angel series, Oz, and Willow & Tara?

    Me too, and I think you're right about the comic losing it's canonicity if there were to be a new show or movie. I don't know if I could handle that. Season 8 is what got me into the fandom and Whedon as a whole. I suppose it wouldn't matter in the long run, but it would still kind of sting.

    I think I feel about the same as you. As for "official canon," I think it's pretty simple:
    Fray
    Tales of the Slayer
    Tales of the Vampires
    The Origin
    Ring of Fire
    Haunted
    Long Night's Journey
    After The Fall
    Spike and Spike: After The Fall
    Buffy: Season 8
    Season 9: Buffy, Angel & Faith, Spike, and Willow
    Season 10: Buffy and Angel & Faith
    Season 11: Buffy and Angel
    Buffy: The High School Years

    My head canon includes all of this stuff plus quite a bit more stuff. I basically just picked out the stories that I thought were worthwhile from the classic series. I'm marathoning the show again right now, and in the process I'll be rereading all of IDW's Angel comics, so I might be adding a few more on here. What's in your head canon? I'm specifically curious about any good novels you've read. In chronological order:
    -Macguffins- It's the first Buffy comic story ever, and the first issue of the main series sucks, so I feel like it's important enough. Plus it's a nice buffer between S1 and S2.
    -Bad Blood Trilogy- Although it's for sure 100% not canon, I thought it was a lot of fun and really sums up the best parts of the early classic years. I like to alternate issues between Homecoming and the Zeppo. I know it's silly, but it fits really nicely there imo and adds a little of the early-S3 levity to the heaviness of Faith's arc.
    -Double Cross- This is debatably canon because it's written by Doug Petrie. It's quite basic but really sweet and gives a nice sheen to Angel's super sad departure.
    -Jonathan- Also debatably canon due to Jane Espenson. It's just a cute, fun issue that leads nicely into Superstar.
    -Past Lives- The Buffy/Angel crossover. I adored this thing, and man it makes it hurt so much more that we never got a proper crossover on TV.
    -False Memories
    -Ugly Little Monsters
    -The Death of Buffy- Like Haunted, this is a perfect transition between S5 and S6.
    -Reunion- Written by Espenson again. This story is crazy fun
    -Note From the Underground- Another great transition between seasons.
    -Spike: Asylum
    -Spike: Shadow Puppets- Both of these are incredible and show that Brian Lynch is truly the best Buffyverse writer ever. The guy just gets it. I'm so glad that, before DH got the rights back, I got to experience a sort of pseudo-season of Spike comics. Asylum+Shadow Puppets+AtF+Spike= 22 comics, and they're all fantastic.
    -AtF: Epilogue (issue 23)
    -Only Human
    -Drusilla's First Night (issues 24-25)
    -Boys and Their Toys (issues 26-27)
    -Last Angel in Hell
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2017
  18. matt124

    matt124 Potential

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    I know right. It is so hard to remember the titles.

    Oh man, I know how it is. I hope you can get them. I was the same, missing heaps. That I just went and got all the omnibuses of the Buffy classics, so I could finally just have the full set complete. Also fun to follow it along in chronology order of the show. Funny that when you get to the end, and Pike mentions Vegas. It feels like a call back to the beginning of the stories.

    I have read those titles and love them. Great stories, well all the ones I can remember.


    Me too. I have to admit I am so *so* behind in the comics. I have bought them, and then I just missed some, and I had all the single issues, and still can't get my hands on issues. That might be why graphic novels are easier to get.

    Your right. You know I always wondered and wished they would just bring Buffy back but as an animated series. Like would the cast be up for voicing instead of live action. Maybe just do Buffy in animated form with the original cast based off the comics or adapted. I know they did that with season 8 sorta with those motion comics. But I never bought it, because one I want the original cast voices and two I would of bought an animated over motion comic. That is just me man.

    It is nice to see that the comics and season 8 is what brought you into the fandom. Love that new fans can can that way. I have been a die hard fan from the first episode. Actually I got into The X Files during the second movie in 2008, and never saw it when it aired, now I'm hooked. It's funny how many shows I never see when they first aired, I got into them when it ends.


    You pretty much have summed up what I am thinking on it.

    Also I would add

    "Bad Dog"
    "Double Cross"
    "Reunion"

    Awesome. I haven't had a marathon of the show since 2013, I have rewatched a few select episodes this year though for the first time 3-4 years. I might do it again sometime.

    I really need to reread the buffy comics. And get ones I haven't gotten. So far the Classic Buffy and Angel's are the only ones I have in full.



    WOW You have an amazing list. I love it, so many good ones added.

    You know over the years, I have played around with my own versions. Pretending that each season of Buffy had more episodes, and had some fun. Adding novels and comics into each season. I went as far to have my own wikipedia list and just adding them into the season. Oh man, am I really a geek.

    I also played around with my own Buffy, where I added my own original episodes into the seasons too added on.

    Then did my own dream Buffy, you know my head canon one where if I was in charge how I would of done the series with changes, and of course be being in charge, I added an extra season, but the extra season is just slotted into the series. Basically I would just write down stuff and go this episode is rewritten and note down my changes, or I would go this episode is pretty much the same as the original and this one is a new episode. So much fun to do.

    You know it was all fun to do, and sometimes fun to do when I am bored.

    Anyway off topic. But back to my list.


    My head canon? With Comics and Novels In chronological order: {Note: Also because I have done this before on other lists, I am going to note where I would place them in the series} I might do Angel another time, or get back to you.

    Season 1
    - Night of the Living Rerun - I know people hate this novel, but I didn't mind it. {head canon setting - between I Robot You Jane and The Puppet Show}
    - Macguffins {head canon setting - between season 1 and 2}
    - How I Survived My Summer Vacation - Great summer story between season 1 and 2. {head canon setting - between season 1 and 2}

    Season 2
    - Carnival of Souls - Love this novel, and has the show's tone and fits nicely. {head canon setting - between Ted and Bad Eggs}
    - After Image {head canon setting - between Ted and Bad Eggs}
    - Portal Through Time - Angelus and Darla flashbacks {head canon setting after Bad Eggs and before Surprise}
    - One Thing Or Your Mother - The Mayor is in it. {head canon setting between I Only Have Eyes for You and Go Fish}

    Season 3
    - Bad Blood Trilogy - like you alternate issues between Homecoming and the Zeppo. {Note: Reminds me in one of my dream buffy's I gave the show four seasons of high school, just so I could work in some stories like this. I basically took the school year back a year. So Buffy arrived in Sunnydale at 15 in the second half of the school year, after becoming the slayer on her 15th birthday.}
    -Blooded {head canon setting - between Revelations and Lovers Walk}
    -The Book of Fours - LOVE this novel. {head canon setting - between Revelations and Lovers Walk}
    -Child of the Hunt - Love seeing Cordelia's parents and Willows. {head canon setting - between Revelations and Lovers Walk}
    -Prime Evil - Cordelia is nervous about her father's tax position but does not tell the others. This foreshadows later events. Giles and Joyce are nervous in each other's company. {head canon setting - between Earshot and Choices}
    -Power of Persuasion - {head canon setting - between Earshot and Choices}
    -Revenant - {head canon setting - between Earshot and Choices}

    Season 4
    -The Lost Slayer {head canon setting - between Beer Bad and Wild At Heart}
    -The Heart of a Slayer {head canon setting between A New Man and The I in Team}
    -Past Lives- The Buffy/Angel crossover - 100% Agree, I say all the time we never got a true crossover with both cast and a story carried over both shows episode's.
    {head canon setting - between Buffy Superstar and Where the Wild Things Are / Angel between The Ring and Eternity}

    Between season 4 and 5
    Unseen - Buffy and Angel crossover set between the seasons. Like seeing everyone interact. Would of made a television special in my head canon.

    Season 5
    -False Memories {Head canon setting - between Triangle and Checkpoint}
    -Ugly Little Monsters {Head canon setting - between Forever and Intervention}


    Season 6
    -The Death of Buffy {head canon setting - obvious}
    - Monster Island - Another Buffy/Angel crossover. {head canon setting - between Buffy All The Way and Once More With Feeling / Angel Billy and Offspring}

    Season 7
    - Apocalypse Memories - Set right after Same Time, Same Place.
    - Heat - Set during Buffy season 7, and Angel season 4. References in the book place it after the sixth episode of each series ("Him" and "Spin the Bottle" respectively).
     
  19. Mylie

    Mylie Scooby

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    The activity in this thread reminds me that I read Out of the Woodwork the other day and forgot to mention it.

    I hated it... The writing and characterization was really bad and it felt so long, it bored me to tears.

    I took a break after that one and now I need to find the motivation to continue my buffy classics readings.
     
    The Ferg: I didn't like it either. It started out fine, but went nowhere. Super boring.
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  20. The Ferg

    The Ferg Mine is an evil laugh!

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    I have actually collected all of the Angel issues, but I got a little overwhelmed a few months ago when I was trying to read every single Dark Horse Buffyverse comic, so I just switched to only reading the main series halfway through. I'll get to the rest at some point. Collecting the Omnibuses would've been a much better plan, but I had fun slowly collecting the series' issue-by-issue.
    I'm not sure if you're aware, but there's a pretty specific reason behind Pike mentioning Vegas. Note From the Underground actually wasn't the final classic story. During S7, they decided that instead of following with the show, they'd go back and tell what happened between The Origin and BS1. Which reminds me.. I totally forgot to add those stories to my head canon list. I view Tales of the Slayers/Vampires, The Origin, Viva Las Buffy, Slayer, Interrupted, and A Stake to the Heart as "Season 0." It makes for a great introduction to the Buffyverse when rewatching the whole thing.

    Well how behind are you exactly? If you haven't read them yet I would HIGHLY recommend tracking down the (slightly more expensive) Library Editions. They are just incredible and look beautiful on the bookshelf.

    Yea, I think these are totally valid, although Jonathan would definitely count if those count.
    Also, if these are added just because the TV writers wrote them, I think Lynch's Spike mini-series' carry just about as much validity. To me, Brian Lynch and Christos Gage have been elevated to the same status as any show writer.

    Yea, I try to rewatch the whole thing (plus the rest of Whedon's oeuvre) every 2 years and it seemed like now was the best time seeing as 20th anniversary and all.
    Man, you are seriously missing out. The stories that takes place post-TV shows are 100% better than the classic stuff. They're for sure not all perfect, but the quality is significantly higher in my opinion. Angel: After The Fall, the first half of Buffy: Season 8, and Angel & Faith: Season 9 are truly some of the best comics I've ever read, and trust me, I've read a lot of comics.

    Oh I don't think you know geeky until you've seen my multiple Excel spreadsheets... I have a weirdly OCD bent when it comes to comics and collecting, and the fact that I'm so in love with everything Whedon adds up to some pretty serious wasting of time. Regardless, I love the constant cycle of collecting>reading>deciding whether it's canon or not>then adding it into my rewatches. I do the exact same thing that you do. To me, Ring of Fire is a part of Season 2, and is just as important as any other S2 episode.

    Ok, you win. You're geekier than I am. :p

    I can't really see myself ever adding a novel into my rewatches, but I'm very interested in checking one out at some point. Which do you think is the best? And which do you think would be the easiest to jump into for someone who rarely reads real books.

    I like your list, although I haven't read any of those books. I find it interesting that we have almost all of the same favorites from the classic series. I guess it's pretty clear which ones are better than the others. I'm interested to see what you consider canon for Angel. For me, it's just the Brian Lynch-Spike stuff, Past Lives (obviously), and Long Night's Journey (official canon imo), although I'm hoping to add a few more stories once I inevitably read the classic Angel series.