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Buffy Season 5 Watch-through With My Niece

Discussion in 'Season 5' started by thetopher, Jan 11, 2016.

  1. thetopher

    thetopher Member of the Church Of Faith

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    Sineya
    Yeah, sometimes she's so memorable I can quote her directly. :)

    I think 'Some Assembly Required'? (its a forgettable episode I know) or maybe even S1. Highschool Buffy had one

    The Initiative do keep on coming back again and again, with lame episodes. They even infect Angel with it. :eek:

    Tis is the big one along with the one previously mentioned. JM might as well be wearing a 'I have a long-term contract okay?' t-shirt. Pure plot armour.

    Another example in 'Checkpiont' where The Watcher's council are questioning him at crossbow point. Uh, why? They were quite happy to kill Angel just one year earlier. The council is really hardline on this- all vampires get dusted, even souled ones, so why are they bothering with not killing Spike?

    At least in 'Crush' you could say that Glory is more prevelent threat by this point and Buffy might- even subconsciously- want to keep him around because he can't hurt anyone (and she finally barred him from her house) and he might be of help...but even so, he almost got her killed because of his creepy obsession (how she sees it) so shouldn't she dust him already?
    That's 4. From 'Intervention' onwards he's an asset and trusted to a degree- by Buffy. In s6 he's a lot better (but again 'Smashed' and 'Seeing Red'? stake-able moments imo).
     
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  2. Fuffy Baith

    Fuffy Baith 2017 (and 2016) Cutest BB member

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    Sineya
    Oh there's another one. I'm starting to understand why I don't like S5 as much as everyone else does. I mean, I guess we can chalk it up to the Watcher's Council being incompetent, again. But really they should have staked him. They've always been black and white about vampires, so after they get the information they wanted from him, he should have been dust. Although, didn't they have that female watcher that was like enamoured with Spike. :rolleyes:. Ugh.

    I still think he should have ran off with Dru in Crush! I get after Intervention why he stays around. But he shouldn't have even been around for that to begin with! Although, Intervention is one of my favorite episodes. But still! lol
     
  3. vellavu

    vellavu Scooby

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    Black Thorn
    I thought it's kinda obvious implied in what happened in the last year. The hawk faction lost their dominance in the Watcher's Council to the dove faction, because the violence team backing them up got beaten up by Angel and Buffy.

    The Council in S5 was apparently not the old one. They do things through bluffing instead of doing things behind people's back. They don't dare to actually do something now, including killing Buffy's possible ally. Buffy saw through this, therefore used just a speech to defeat them.
     
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  4. thetopher

    thetopher Member of the Church Of Faith

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    Sineya
    The problem was that Quentin was still seen to be in charge- the same guy from S3, before the events of last year. so I still think their the same rigid organisation is unchanged in its thinking.

    And I can just see Buffy really not caring what the Council does to Spike, like at all.

    Still, 'Checkpoint' is otherwise an exceelent episode, one of S5's best.
     
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  5. vellavu

    vellavu Scooby

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    Black Thorn
    Well, the Republicans took over the Senate in 2014, but Obama's still the president.

    Buffy didn't care about Spike, but the Council was careful not to physically mess with all Buffy's affiliations. They didn't even do much to Gile's store, besides a few annoying comments.

    I agree that "Checkpoint" is a great episode.
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2016
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  6. Dolores

    Dolores Professional sleeper

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    Currently rewatching Buffy vs Dracula. Is it just me or does her acting seem really terrible in this episode? Is it because it's meant to be sort of mocking itself?
     
  7. thetopher

    thetopher Member of the Church Of Faith

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    Sineya
    Since I've still got my 'niece-notes' for the rest of S5 I'll be starting this up again soon, when I've got the time. :)
    My niece only has Angel S5 left to watch, and then she's done.

    What was I even when I typed this.
     
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  8. vellavu

    vellavu Scooby

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    Black Thorn
    Did you censor some parts of BtVS S6/7 and AtS S4 for her?
     
  9. thetopher

    thetopher Member of the Church Of Faith

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    Sineya
    I just lent her my boxsets; Buffy S6 and Angel S3, then 7 and 4 respectively. She's got Angel s5 right now. So I couldn't really censor anything but I think she did okay.

    Obviously I don't know her detailed opinion on all those seasons, just the overview with a few specifics of what she liked.
     
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  10. thetopher

    thetopher Member of the Church Of Faith

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    Sineya
    Triangle
    Ah, Triangle. Like The Zeppo this is- apparently- not a favorite for many Buffy-fans. In a way I can see why because of comedy-cry Buffy in the aftermath of Riley's leaving and all the ott Troll stuff. But in this episodes defense there are a couple of heartfelt conversations that Buffy has with Giles and Dawn; about how she's coping with the emotional aftermath. Personally I think its well done.
    Not to mention that 'I Was Made To Love You' is actually the real post-Buffy break-up episode. This one is just light some character relief from the unremitting grimness of the last 3 episodes.
    And I REALLY like it; it's fun and shows- again- a willingness to poke fun at itself with a rather ludicrous plot that is not played straight; see Buffy defeating the troll through the rationale of fighting for Anya and Xander's 'miraculous love'. Not to be taken seriously.
    And the stuff around the plot is good as well, the scenes at the Magic Box as Giles prepares to leave is fun of sharp wit; Buffy's 'I killed something in a convent last night' and Xander's reaction. Then there's the on-going Spike subplot as he deals with his 'guilt' over upsetting Buffy; interesting journey there.


    My niece disliked this episode quite a lot but not really because of 'whiny little cry-Buffy'. It's simple; she really likes Willow and doesn't like Anya; so having them argue and be irritating to each other was frustrating for her. She found Anya shrill and unlikable and was on Willow's side for a lot/all of it. Plus she had a few problems with the 'rampage troll' plot; she didn't think it was funny and it 'went on too long'. *shrug*

    I think the other problem might be Angel S2, and what's happening over there; my niece was impatient to get to the 'Angel fires everyone and goes to wart with W&H'- that plotline was really engaging to her, this- in contrast- was too light.

    Some deets!
    Liked: The Xander/Anya pillow talk conversation at the start of the episode about Riley and breakups. (I can't help but see some of this through the lens of 'Hell's Belles- which I saw recently. And there will be no 'Big Bomb Clock' for Anya.)
    Liked: Buffy's shiny pink top! And her 'abjuring' talk with the nun at the convent. Hmn, did Angelus visit this convent a few years ago I wonder? I don't see him passing something like that up, the swine.
    Loved: Giles and Buffy's sparring session and the whole idea of him going to the Watcher's council for answers. Since those guys haven't been mentioned since they tried to kill Faith. Well, it was Buffy, and then Faith, and then both of them and Angel. Anyway, she loved this scene.
    Loved: Buffy teasing Giles with her 'end of the world' declaration. :)
    Liked: Tara thinking that going to England would be so exciting and exotic, unless you're English. Heh, cute.
    Disliked: The on-going Willow/Anya tension/back and forth. Always on Willow's side.
    Liked: Anya: 'I have finese coming out of my bottom!'
    Loved: Buffy and Dawn teasing Joyce about her funky bathrobe.
    Liked: 'What're you doing?' 'Playing soccer.' And Buffy's subsequent conversation with Dawn, Dawn's sympathy, Buffy playing with Dawn's hair. 'Sister feels' in general.
    Liked: Spike's sincere apology that dissolves into a violent rage over his feelings for Buffy. JM is great here.
    Disliked: The whole Tara/Willow and Anya scene as Anya gets pissy about Willow stealing things and constantly complain.
    (In Anya's defence on seeing this episode again I did find Willow's entitlement incredibly annoying and rather arrogant. She should at least respect Anya's ROLE as shopkeeper and recognize that Giles left her in charge of the supplies/money situation. Anya can run the business and Willow is now disrupting it. Argh, that almost physically hurt to take Anya's side! :p )
    Loved: The IDEA of the 'ball of sunshine' spell. She hopes that Buffy gets to use that. Aw, getting her hopes up.
    Disliked: Xander getting caught up in the squabbling and getting fed up and leaving. My niece thought he should've put his foot down. Again, in Xander's defence I bet this isn't the first time he's been pulled into an argument (thinking of his parents here) and his reaction is understandable.
    Argh: Anya disrupting the 'sunshine' spell with her mouth. My niece wanted to slap her trap shut!
    Wow! Troll! :eek:
    Loved: Buffy and Tara talking about class. A respite from the troll plot I think. Plus it was just normalish witty banter about stuff and things. I really like Buffy's pigtails- distractedly so.
    Liked: The first Buffy-breakdown, but mainly for Tara's bemused reactions. Plus 'miraculous love!'
    Disliked: Anya not knowing how to drive. My niece mentioned that Anya fled the S3 Ascension in a car. Top marks for her memory!

    Liked: Xander confiding in Spike about his girl-troubles and Spike in turn trying to figure out about Buffy's feelings. She was really amused by this.
    Liked: I think my niece likes it when characters play pool whilst talking about stuff, something I've picked up on; like its 'extra stylish' or something.
    Meh: Troll dialogue. She found some of it okay, but mainly Xander's 'troll talk' (much hearty grog!) and Spike's various reactions.
    Liked: Willow: 'I wish Buffy were here' Buffy appears: 'I'm here!' Willow: 'I wish for a million dollars!'


    Huh? My niece found it incredibly unlikely that the troll-Olaf- had known Anya (in fact was part of her origin story). The odds were impossibly long that that particular crystal at the Magic Box would contain the guy who Anya happened to have dated thousands of years ago and then that she would be responsible for his release. My niece thought it was all 'pretty stupid' as I recall.
    Liked: Buffy fighting the troll and the Bronze getting knocked down. (she missed the bit where Spike suck a feel when Buffy fell on him!)
    Also: Spike wanting credit for not feeding off disaster victims. Buffy's disgust and Spike's disgruntled reactions.

    Loved: Willow saying to Anya "You're so RUDE! Learn the rules." A thousand times she agreed with this sentiment.
    Liked: Xander being all heroic and going up against the troll. I found him suspiciously invulnerable to getting hit, he's only human after all. Still, he was brave. Plus we get 'insane troll logic'.
    Liked: Anya annoying Olaf and Olaf's response.
    Disliked: Buffy's cry-breakdown at the end. She said 'enough already!' :p (I liked cry-Buffy, the way she was rocking those pig-tails. Woof.)
    Liked: The coda conversation between Giles, Joyce and Buffy, with Dawn overhearing just enough to make her curious. Intriguing!

    That's all I got- but that was a lot!

    Next time: What's collective noun for a group of Watchers? A prig? A stuffiness? Ah, its a delegation, and its headed for Sunnydale. :)
     
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  11. thetopher

    thetopher Member of the Church Of Faith

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    Sineya
    Addendum
    I forgot to mention that my niece enjoyed the references to Amy the rat AND the world without shrimp. I was reminded because she's just gotten to the point in Angel where Illyria references that same in-joke. She thinks its pretty funny. :)
     
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