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Buffy season 6 appreciation

Discussion in 'Season 6' started by Wesley Pryce, Mar 31, 2017.

  1. Athene

    Athene Scooby

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    There's loads of examples, if being soulless truly gave Spike no choice but to do evil things then he would have sold Dawn out instead of being tortured right?
    And as you said in Crush he's got that gun with him and it looks as if he's going to shoot Buffy but then because Buffy's crying he instead comforts her. Is that not Spike refraining from doing something evil?
     
  2. WillowFromBuffy

    WillowFromBuffy "My bowling shoe fetish is not the issue here."

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    According to modernist thinking, people are rational beings capable of free choice. According to Romanticism, however, people are slaves to their compulsions. Some compulsions are bad, some are good. Spike and Dru preach lots of Romantic philosophy. "Love is not brains, children, it is burning blood."

    Spike is passionate, violent, sensitive, loyal, defiant. Before he gets his soul, he never really reflects much on his choices. He simply does what feels natural to him. A spiteful Buffy compels him to violence. A crying Buffy compels him to comfort.

    If Spike was a Kantian, he would endure torture for anyone. Spike endures torture for Buffy and Dawn because he loves them and because he enjoys being defiant in the face of a superior enemy.
     
  3. DeadlyDuo

    DeadlyDuo Scooby

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    I appreciate the first few episodes of Season 6 before Spuffy starts taking hold in OMWF.
     
  4. Athene

    Athene Scooby

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    I appreciate that but I just find it too convenient that whenever Spike does something good while he's not souled it's because of love and passion but whenever he does something wrong it's because he's soulless, when really he's always making a decision. Additionally I've seen many pretend like he couldn't possibly have refrained from doing things that are wrong just because he's soulless when we've seen him refrain from doing bad things when it suits him.
     
  5. Fool for Buffy

    Fool for Buffy "I wanna see how it ends"

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    Sineya
    If people analyzed characters like this then nobody would like anyone ever. You are taking everything Spike does and twisting into the worst possible action with the worst possible motivation. There is no question that Spike letting Glory torture him was selfless; he had nothing on his mind but keeping Dawn safe because that's what Buffy wanted. And what do you mean what else was he going to do but protect Dawn? He could have left town. Or hid. Or just stayed in his cript. He chose to stand by her and protect her for months. And clearly that was not because he was obsessed with Buffy because, he, unlike the others, had accepted she was gone. As far as Doc goes, he made one good move. Honestly it was Dawn's fault for screaming Spike's name; he could have just snuck up behind Doc and pushed him over but he had to fight and Doc won. Buffy didn't let Doc fight. That's why she won. Also Doc was cocky after beating Spike. And one last thing, Spike did not come to Sunnydale to kill Buffy. He came to heal Drusilla. Buffy was conveniently there also.
     
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  6. WillowFromBuffy

    WillowFromBuffy "My bowling shoe fetish is not the issue here."

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    Spike does not do bad things when he does not want to do bad things. That is not the same as being good. When he wants to do something bad, he is unable to stop himself, because he lacks the ability to think and act morally and rationally.
     
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  7. Athene

    Athene Scooby

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    But Spike isn't unable. If he was unable to stop himself from doing bad things then Buffy would have been shot by him in crush, Dawn would have been sold out to Glory. He had the rational thinking to do all of those things properly and yet when it came to trying to rape Buffy it's played as if he has no choice but to rape her.
     
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  8. WillowFromBuffy

    WillowFromBuffy "My bowling shoe fetish is not the issue here."

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    We obviously understand him differently. The way I see it, Spike wants to kill Buffy, because she rejects and humiliates him. When he sees her crying, the compulsion to kill her goes her way. He does not have an epiphany about the sanctity of human life. If she had not cried, he would have shot her.
     
    flow: Love your thoughts !
  9. Athene

    Athene Scooby

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    Yeah Spike saw her crying and made the decision to not shoot her. So Spike was not unable to stop himself was he?
     
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  10. WillowFromBuffy

    WillowFromBuffy "My bowling shoe fetish is not the issue here."

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    If Buffy had agreed to take Spike back in Seeing Red, then Spike would not have raped her. That is not Spike being moral. That is just Spike reacting differently to different circumstances.
     
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  11. Athene

    Athene Scooby

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    Yeah, Spike tried to rape Buffy not because he's soulless and couldn't stop himself but because he wanted to. He clearly can stop himself from doing evil things as we've seen in season 5 so clearly he was okay with trying to rape Buffy. That's the point I was trying to make and it's why I don't like season 6 Spike. It's fine if you still like him :)
     
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  12. Athena

    Athena Belinda Staff Member

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    Black Thorn
    I appreciate Season 6 is sometimes difficult to appreciate, but if the lack of appreciation continues, I hope you'll all appreciate the closure of this thread. :rolleyes:
     
  13. WillowFromBuffy

    WillowFromBuffy "My bowling shoe fetish is not the issue here."

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    I guess we must agree to disagree. I don't seem myself as defending Spike. Quite the opposite really. I enjoy Spike as a character, but I don't see him as a good person.
     
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  14. Athene

    Athene Scooby

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    Fair enough :)
     
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  15. DeadlyDuo

    DeadlyDuo Scooby

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    I think Season 6 tried to tackle some difficult issues (Depression, Addiction, etc) however I think it went about it in the wrong way and struggled to portray them realistically. By "realistically", I mean that it never dealt with the fallout of those issues eg Buffy never chooses to overcome her depression but just snaps out of it at the end, Willow is allowed to keep "using" magic despite it being the drug she was addicted to and she never struggles with that addiction again.

    Season 6 had good ideas but bad execution of those ideas.
     
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  16. Dora

    Dora Potential

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    Sorry I don't appreciate season sex, sorry six, some of us do not , I have strong views on Six , the complete change from what had gone before and after not only the sexual content which I believe left Sarah not trusting JW anymore but the turn from fantasy to soap, but as a democratic thread surely I can put my views , Love all these people who are by far better educated than I , the whole Spike could make the right choice if he wanted too,ie going to shot her and comforting her and going to talk then trying to rape her is something I have never thought of Spikes makes those Choices . Season six to me was the end of Buffy , JW it appears left Buffy ,apart from the input he had horrid sex in Smashed , Gone , Balcony and the AR and of coarse OMWF to play with fire flop leaving MN in charge of day to day running. The choice thing speaks volumes from the holding hands in Bargaining to the Seeing red , to knowing Buffy could have come back Wrong , yet taking advantage of her sexually instead of helping her Spike's choice ! . My main problem with six is probably Spuffy , I can't see it Buffy is mentally all mixed up Depressed and self harming allowing Spike most of the time to use her , and Spike being totally selfish and using Buffy instead of trying to help her where is there any love in that , I can't think of any time he met her from work for instance to make sure she got home safely , as he told Buffy it only takes one lucky vamp . As I have pointed out many times they tried to bring it back to Buffy in season seven and started well up until CWDP then I think MN influence inserted it self again . To chose to go all bleak with Season six they should have never had MN in charge .JW finished with Buffy at season Five , Buffy her self said she was finished perhaps it should have finished there......
     
  17. Stoney

    Stoney Spiked!

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    Is this deliberate to try and get the thread closed?

    If you don't appreciate season six I'd suggest keeping out of a thread which specifies it is just for appreciation and not criticism, which the very first post did.
     
  18. Athena

    Athena Belinda Staff Member

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    Black Thorn
    The thread will remain open for the time being. This is a final warning though. This thread is for appreciation of Season 6, so if you don't like it then maybe don't post in an appreciation thread....? :confused:



    I think that's just TV though, nothing is ever portrayed exactly like it would happen in real life. It's a double-edge sword really, because as viewers we say we want realistic depictions of hard-hitting subjects, but in reality it takes a long time to get over addiction, and you could argue that similarly that might turn viewers off not having their Willow back with the team so soon. I think Season 6 does this the best way it possibly can with the constraints of a 22 episode tv show.
     
  19. Antho

    Antho Scooby

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    Season 6 is my favorite, tied with the 3, it depends on my mood. There are many things to enjoy in this season :) :

    - Spuffy Relationship in the first half of the season. Even as a Bangel, I enjoyed some scenes between them.
    - The return of Riley. I know many don't like him but I do and I appreciate what he says to Buffy about the turning wheel.
    - The trio : not really for the characters but more for the idea that we are our worst enemy. I like that for once, the main villain is not evil by instinct but chooses to become it ..
    - Dark Willow : I love it, but I would never say enough. See Willow lose foot like that is just painful but in the same time it gives the character a whole other dimension that makes it even more exciting.
    - Some music : especially the one where Willow comforted herself in the clothes of Tara ..
    - The fact that Anya becomes a vengeful demon.
    - Spike recovering his soul.
    - Normal Again, Once More With Feeling, the two first episodes, the three last episodes, Hell's Bells..
    - Dawn/Buffy..
    - Tara.. she is much more serene in this season.
    - Buffy's depression and Willow's addiction.. Sure there are not perfect plots but I enjoy them !
     
  20. Stoney

    Stoney Spiked!

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    I thought the progression for Willow into abusing power was really believable following her growth over the previous seasons. She went from being a smart but cautious and insecure person into a far more confident one who was realising their potential and had tapped into a power that was hard to resist. I'm not sure it works great for a drug abuse metaphor, although I can see what they were thinking, but just as an exploration alongside both Buffy's and Spike's journeys in the season of closing off, isolation and power corruption it is pretty solid I think.
     
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