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Canon Watch (Spoilers for current issue)

Discussion in 'Season 8' started by nerd4hire, Jun 7, 2007.

  1. nerd4hire

    nerd4hire Certified Uncloneable

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    Whedon has stated on more than one occasion words to the effect Buffy is at the age an open-minded young women like her might experiment, but she's not gay, nor is she going gay. I got the impression he was saying she's not even bisexual, really. If we take him at his word, I wouldn't expect to see Satsu again for some time. At least not with Buffy.
     
  2. UnKle

    UnKle girl random

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    N4H, I've just been reading your summary posts and they rock. I'm kind of having trouble following the comics but I like the way you sum up each issue. Kind of makes me go 'ooohhhhh, that's what happened, that's what that meant!'

    Anyway, I hope you continue to do this because I'm depending on you now to decipher the current arc. lol
     
  3. nerd4hire

    nerd4hire Certified Uncloneable

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    Yeah, I was just reading your post over at the Time of Your Life # 2 Discussion thread UnKle. I sense your confusion on this current issue. Not to worry, I don't think you're the only one. In fact I include myself among the currently confused.

    I think maybe the first thing we need before we begin Time of Your Life is background on Fray. Melaka Fray as you know by now is the future slayer Buffy will meet in the ToYL arc. Some of us are familiar with Fray from comics past. For those who aren't we'll get into some background on her.

    There's a lengthy explanatory thread on Fray here - Fray in the Buffyverse

    I'll give you some highlights.

    Fray was originally an 8 issue comic Joss Whedon began before Chosen aired. It concerns a girl name Melaka Fray living hundreds of years in the future, in the slummed out, street level remnants of what was once Manhattan. It is now referred to in the story as Haddyn.

    Melaka has recently discovered her slayer power, but she's got a problem, or three. The watchers have disappeared. She has no idea what this slayer power is all about. Her future era is not about the magic. In fact it seems vampires have only reappeared recently. They're called lurks now. The people of Fray's time are be pretty much clueless on lurks. They just think of them as these strange homeless people who live in the shadows of the under city.

    Melaka has another problem. She has a twin brother named Harth. Harth got the slayer power of visions, and psychic connection to the slayer line. Melaka got the slayer strength. Those two halves make the whole of the slayers existing in Fray's time period.

    Harth was killed in his youth by a particularly nasty lurk (vampire) named Icarus. It traumatized the young, and mystically unaware Fray. That was just the beginning. We later learn Harth had himself vamped. The vampire Harth becomes the slayer Fray's nemesis.

    And if that wasn't enough here's how the story of slayer Fray, and her vampire brother ended when last we saw them.

    [​IMG]

    Luckily for Fray (or perhaps unluckily depending what we're talking about) a Demon appears in Fray's life, earlier in the story, and takes on her education as slayer. His name is Urkon. He is working under his own secret agenda for 2 demon overlords. He gives her the knowledge she needs to keep her head straight.

    It almost didn't happen though. Urkon was having problem with management...

    Urkon Discusses the Melaka Fray Situation With Demon Overlords Vrill and Boluz

    [​IMG]

    Under Urkon's tutelage Melaka learns the history of magic in the Buffyverse. More importantly in reference to what will happen in Time of Your Life, she learns the history of the last slayer, and her final battle.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    It's a rousing little yarn - Fray is. If you missed it, I'd recommend it 5 stars for your reading list. But here's the problem. The Fray story left more questions as to how the Buffyverse works than it offered answers. Examples...

    If there are multiple slayers at the end of Chosen, why is there only one (well two halves) in the time of Fray?

    Urkon gave Melaka the scythe. Where did he get it?

    If there are no demons, or magic after the final battle of the final slayer, how does it all reappear at the time of Fray?

    Who was the for sure final slayer in the final battle? (Actually ToYL appears to have already answered this one).

    And why does any of this matter in reference to Time of Your Life? Some will tell you it doesn't. I disagree, and seeing as this is my thread ;) that's the version you'll get. But there's more.

    Fray later turns up again in another comic. Actually it's a Dark Horse trade paperback. It is an anthology of stories concerning slayers. They were written by mutant enemy writers. Joss Whedon contributes a story showing Melaka chasing a six legged demon monkey. Spider monkey, she calls it. It knows about slayers, and about the scythe.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Melaka's meeting the monkey was a result of a retrieval (theft) she was doing as part of her day job. Fray you see is also a professional thief.

    She chases the monkey for hours. Finally it stops. And where it stops appears to have purpose.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    The monkey and the room will turn up again in Time of Your Life.

    OK so there's some highlights to the background of Fray. Fray meets Buffy in Buffy 8, issues 16 through 19. The arc as I should have stated at the beginning, and you may have guessed if you didn't already know is Time of Your Life.

    We can begin looking at Time of Your Life now if you like, but first I need a favor.

    This page is getting kind of graphics intensive. It will already take a day to load for people with slow connections. If anybody stumbles in here could you post me into the next page, so we can start over. We'll need about 8, or 9 posts I think. Ask questions about Fray if you like. I rushed this post. I don't know how clear it all is.
     
    UnKle: A whoooole lot of things make sense now, N4H, because of this post! And now I have the impetus I needed to find out what Fray's story is all about. And I seriously have to find out about that final battle... holy smokes...
    punkypower: have i told you today how much i appreciate you? ;)
  4. Rowan Hawthorn

    Rowan Hawthorn Potential

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    (To the tune of "One Hundred Bottles of Beer On The Wall")
    One little "push me!" post on the board...
     
  5. Mr. Pointy

    Mr. Pointy A sharp stick - it's true Watcher

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    Black Thorn
    Bump bumpity bump bump :)
     
  6. Allycat

    Allycat www.VirtualSlayer.net

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    Isn't posting just to get post count higher (in this case a thread's, and not a member's) illegal... or at least against the board rules? And now a moderator is asking us to? Tut-tut-tut.


    On a more important side note. People with slow internet connections or older computer should change their setting for the number of posts per page to as low as possible. That will decrease the time it takes for a page to load. Also, you could consider using the least graphical board theme.
     
  7. nerd4hire

    nerd4hire Certified Uncloneable

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    Darn it Ally. I know you're at least mostly joking, because I know you're bright enough to see the difference between this and a normal thread. Nevertheless you put me in a position where I have to respond, because sooner or later some noodle is going to use what you just said in response to being told not to bump.

    First of all, this is a staked thread. It isn't like a bunch of old forgotten threads are going to get bumped by short spammy posts to the top of the list distracting from current threads people post to get an actual response.

    This is a reference thread. It's posted as a service to the board, to update members not able to keep up with the nuances of canon change presented in Buffy 8. We could of course alter the whole formatting of the thread. Offer it as HTML or something. That would not be viable though. The ability to respond is important here, because issues of canon are controversial, and everybody should have an opportunity to offer input. Also there are times when I'm just plain wrong, and I like to be corrected. Perhaps a blog format might be possible in the future. At present however, it's not.

    This thread has never been idle. Even when people aren't responding it's still getting hits. People are using it to get information. It isn't a dead thread being bumped for vanity. To be honest it's a bit of a pain in the butt to do. If people stopped reading it, or stopped contacting me to tell me it's useful, I'd cheerfully unstake it, and let it slip to the bottom of the pile.

    It's not the only reference thread on the board being periodically bumped. There's Buffy 8 Recaps, Whedonverse index, Whedon Watch, character and actor reference threads to name a few. Should all of those be killed rather than bumped?

    So basically yeah. It's kind of Mickey Mouse when I have to ask for bumps to get to another page, but that's the way it has to be done until we can come up with a better alternative.
     
  8. Allycat

    Allycat www.VirtualSlayer.net

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    It was meant as a joke. One that pointed out the potential risks, but a joke nonetheless. Don't get me wrong, I'm completely with you; I think this is a very important threat to have around!

    And I'm certainly glad that this little post is bringing you a little closer to the next page ;)
     
  9. nerd4hire

    nerd4hire Certified Uncloneable

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    Not to worry, it gave me another chance to post. Oh and look...we only need one more. :)
     
  10. Allycat

    Allycat www.VirtualSlayer.net

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    Well then, I am delighted to be able to do the honours... she's all yours now, take it away, N4H!
     
  11. nerd4hire

    nerd4hire Certified Uncloneable

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    Time of Your Life Part 1

    Time of Your Life begins like this...

    [​IMG]

    Buffy is confused as to who her opponent is there, but we who remember Joss Whedon's future slayer Melaka Fray know immediately who she is. We are not particularly concerned the two are falling from a building, because Fray has a signature move where she dives off buildings and bounces off the flying cars below.

    Those who are not familiar with the slayer Fray can get some explanation from the post on the previous page, and the link embedded within that post.

    For followers of canon one thing is immediately important regarding the reappearance of Fray. When we saw her last there were a number of discrepancies between the Fray story, and the last Buffy story we saw in Chosen. Joss Whedon has made several comments throughout the years promising to allign the two storylines. The biggest conflict between the 2 stories is the idea there are multiple slayers after Chosen, and 1 chosen one (well 2 halves) after Fray. That's the one most people want matched up. It's worth watching for that even if it doesn't happen. Personally, I expect it too.

    Buffy is also worried about Dawn at his point. Something is happening to Dawn.

    [​IMG]

    Dawn as you remember was a giant. We later learn this was only the first of three transformations. Here's the second one.

    [​IMG]

    But back to Buffy. Time of Your Life will be a time travel arc. We will be zipping back and forth present to future. We learn the background concerning Buffy's sudden appearance in the future.

    As we know from the previous issue Willow has contacted the demon/witchy/snake-lady thing Saga Visuki who apparently at one time was Willow's Sensei, mentor, tutor, whatever. On two occasions now Willow has expressed a certain shame and hesitance to speak on her relationship with S V, but we learn she has communicated to Willow a need to investigate something in New York. Once more in Buffy 8 something is happening concerning the scythe.

    [​IMG]

    During the course of the council on how to deal with Willow's information Xander says something which I believe is important to the canon of his character. There has been criticism concerning Xander's blase reaction to Anya's death in Chosen. Something similar will happen in this council meeting concerning the death of Renee. Buffy in an effort to be understanding wants to leave Xander in Scotland thinking he needs time to deal with Renee's death. Here's how Xander responds.

    [​IMG]

    Nevertheless the decision is made for Xander to stay in Scotland, and look after slayerforce. He appears to agree with the decision. Willow, and Buffy jump on a plane to go to Manhattan. During the trip we get another hint concerning the financing of Slayerforce.

    [​IMG]

    The financing of slayerforce comes not from the theft of old, forgotten, Nazi loot alone. There are also investors. Buffy claims she must take a meeting with them in New York, but that may be a ruse of some sort, as we will see.

    During the flight we also discover Willow has called ahead to have a group of slayers scout out the location they must investigate. One of these is Kennedy. We now learn the Willow/Kennedy relationship is still pretty snug.

    [​IMG]

    Kennedy runs her own group. Vi runs the New York squad. The two have been working together preparing for the visit of Buffy and Willow. There's lots of vampires in New York. Also spirits, dark mages, demons - you know, the usual. There are "mystical turf wars" Kennedy refers to the city that never sleeps as "vampire heaven".

    The New York group also has a Wiccan squad. They have been looking for a mystical signature. They believe they have found it atop a high rise. The main players agree to all meet there.

    Upon the day of the meeting however Buffy is late. There is a further hint as to a possible future significance to whoever Buffy is meeting with privately in New York. She dressed to the nines for the mysterious meeting. Some readers suspect a possible upcoming romance.

    But let's back up, a sec. At the slayer meeting between Willow and Buffy, and the 2 slayer squads, Willow gave a brief lecture on Time. It's important I think.

    [​IMG]

    This will not be the last mention of time as fluid, with ripples. There will be another in part 2.

    A brief opinion remark: There's been criticism of the introduction of time as a concept in this arc. The feeling is this is out of place in the Buffyverse. I disagree. Mentions of time are present in the Buffyverse Canon. A couple that come to mind are the time static presence of shadow men in Get it Done, and the idea time goes quicker in Hell dimensions. I don't see time as a unique concept in Buffy 8 but, more as a further building of an already existing trope.

    Editorial over. Back to the story. There is tension now between Buffy and Kennedy as a result of Buffy's previous, exploratory venture into the land of Lesbos with Satsu. Ripples?

    [​IMG]

    Back in Scotland the castle is attacked by some sort of mystic missile created by Warren and Amy. They have connected personally with Twilight, who Warren refers to as "Copperhead".

    [​IMG]

    Before that happened though there was a little hope for Dander shippers.

    [​IMG]

    In New York Willow has identified the temporal rift atop the Manhattan high rise. Time ripples are occurring causing anomalies. Willow suggests something is trying to get through, Kennedy makes another remark suggesting it's about the scythe. Buffy appears with the scythe and this happens.

    [​IMG]

    We all remember the swap through dimensions of Buffy for demon in Get it Done, right? A similar thing happens here. A demon appears in our dimension, and Buffy disappears into a portal.

    Buffyverse time travel hurts.

    [​IMG]

    Or is it just Buffy? Teleporting makes her puke.

    Buffy arrives in the future, and is greeted by Fray.

    [​IMG]

    Confusing eh? And it doesn't get less confusing in the next installment. It's fun though, because you know there's going to be answers sooner or later.
     
  12. white avenger

    white avenger white avenger

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    UnKle: Link comes up dead for me. :(
  13. nerd4hire

    nerd4hire Certified Uncloneable

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    Time of Your Life part 2

    I'll catch you guys up with some Fray Canon and trivia as we move along.

    Fray dresses kind of Goth/Grunge. She has black hair with red tips. The tatoo on her left shoulder is reminiscent of the current symbol for hazardous waste. There are other theories as to what the symbol might mean, but the hazardous waste thing is what connects with me, personally.

    Fray lives among the denizens of the under city. The higher class of Haddyn live in the upper level apartments above. She's street trash, but it wasn't always exactly like that. At one time her and her twin brother Harth lived with their older sister Erin. Erin became a cop. Fray somehow made some bad connections and took on odd contracts to steal (or what she calls grab) things for a mutant fishman, crime-boss named Gunther.

    One time she took Harth on a grab, and they ran into what the people of Fray's time call a lurk. Lurks are vampires. The vampire killed Harth. Erin blamed Fray. Fray took off on her own to the streets. There was much tension between Erin and Fray. Neither knew about vampires, or slayers at the time. During the course of the series they made peace with each other.

    Now in Buffy season 8 we discover they will even work together on Fray's slayer gig.

    [​IMG]

    Or is that it?. Fray and Erin are looking for Harth.

    (Oh, I forgot to tell you. When the vampire, Icarus, killed Harth, Harth knew the only way to survive was to drink the vampires blood. He knew this because twin brother Harth got the slayer dreams, and psychic connections to the slayer line. Melaka got the other stuff.)

    Anyway Fray and Erin bust up a vampire nest in the back of a flying van. Fray is looking for Harth. She discovers some other information she wasn't expecting.

    [​IMG]

    So now we the reader know Vampire Harth has taken up with a powerful, mad woman who has lived for centuries. We immediately think - Aha...Drusilla.

    It's not Drusilla though. It's revealed on the last page who it really is. I'll tell you who it is right away, because the canon stuff will become clearer if you know. It's Dark Willow.

    We now discover Fray has taken up residence in the library Fray discovered in Tales of the Slayers (see previous page of thread).

    [​IMG]

    She has also taken in the demon ape she was pursuing in ToTS as a grab for Gunther. Erin discovers both these details as they return to Fray's pad to research the mad woman from the past.

    The monkey now has a name. Fray calls him Gates. That may have significance. One of the things we know about the library is it contains the Watcher's Diaries. Fray researches.

    [​IMG]

    The last great watcher would appear to be Giles. We will be able to piece that together from information given later.

    For now though the story seques to Harth and Dark Willow discussing Harth's dreams from which he knows D W.

    [​IMG]

    Harth says "the slayer of slayers" (who he was in the dream) is coming. Does that mean the greatest of slayers, or the slayer who slayed the slayers? I don't know.

    And there's other cryptic stuff, most of it from Dark Willow.

    [​IMG]

    When Harth asks Dark Willow why she would put two slayers together if they're powerful she answers.

    "Vampires gain strength from each other. Slayers ultimately don't"

    Is that true though? Again I don't know, but it doesn't really answer the question why it's necessary to put Fray and Buffy together. In answer to that Dark Willow says.

    "What happens in your time will cause your time to come. Do you see?"

    Now me, I don't see, but Dark Willow goes on to talk about ripples in time, or as good Willow said time is fluid. This, I would think, means it's changeable, so that might be a hint.

    I should point out Dark Willow is still nasty. Harth is the vampire overlord in Fray's time. Dark Willow is impressed by the way he has been having his minions systematically turn the denizens of the under-city into vampires, creating a kind of vampire army. She talks of "the beloved infection". She hasn't suddenly become nice. If she has, she's doing a good job of disguising it.

    Nice Willow, however is still in the past blaming herself for Buffy being taken. She's figured out Buffy is now in the future. Kennedy has been injured. It's just a flesh wound. Damn.

    But wait last issue it appeared the castle in Scotland was blewn up. What happened to Dawn, Xander, and slayer force Scotland? We almost forgot about those guys.

    Well turns out the explosion was not so much a bomb as a mystic penetration whereby demon warriors are appearing and storming the castle. It's not as bad as we first thought.

    [​IMG]

    Xander runs about the castle organizing the evacuation. He gets trapped by demon warriors.

    Ok, we have to backtrack to last issue for a sec.

    Just before the mystic missile hit Xander was comforting Centaur Dawn. He made this mistake some men are prone to make where he followed a sweet, flattering remark, with another that could better be described as boneheaded. (It's like they can't tolerate success) I think he accused her of being whiny. Where did he get that idea? :confused:

    Dawn ran off into the forest on all fours.

    OK so Dawn's pissed at Xander. The missile hits. Xander runs into the castle and gets hit by a green demon arrow, then trapped by the demons that shot it. When last we saw Dawn she was running into the forest for a cry. Then this happens...

    [​IMG]

    Dawn storms the castle looking for Xander.

    He's injured. He can't run. Dawn comes to this conclusion.

    [​IMG]

    Is it clever reading skills, or a dirty mind that finds a certain amount of innuendo there? Whatever. I suggest there have been a steadily increasing number of hints pointing at a Dander ship lately.

    Xander rides Dawn out of the castle.

    Meanwhile back on the roof in Manhattan Good Willow figures out this is what happened as far as Buffy disappearing.

    [​IMG]

    She know there's been a timeswap, and some dark force organized it.

    She makes an interesting observation here when she suggests whoever that force is, he or she has way more power than her. Is Willow saying future Dark Willow is more powerful than she is?

    Back in Haddyn, Erin drops Fray off at the rooftop in future time. Fray makes a couple of significant comments.

    [​IMG]

    In the Fray series they speak of a final battle where the last slayer fought a demon army then disappeared. We learn now Buffy was that last girl. This also suggests Giles was "the last great watcher".

    We also learn the mad woman reached through time and grabbed the last girl from the rooftop - "changing her".

    So...Fray goes to the rooftop to investigate. The demon who will be swapped for Buffy in the past appears. The demon and Fray fight. The demon vanishes. Buffy appears. Fray thinks it's a shape shift. Fray and Buffy fight. Buffy convinces her there was no shape shift. Fray now figures out Buffy is the last slayer she has read of in her books.

    The two decide to join forces and go looking for answers. While on route Buffy asks Fray how many slayers there are in her time. She discovers there's only Melaka. This rocks Buffy. Her whole concept of how the future was going to be is turned upside down. She no doubt expected her slayer army was going to live on.

    Fray takes Buffy to see Gunther, the fish mutant, crime boss she works for. They want information. Fray questions Gunther on the mad woman guiding Harth. Buffy starts to zone out. The situation is starting to get to her.

    Later Dark Willow explains it to Harth this way.

    [​IMG]

    We've seen this a few times so far in Buffy 8. The bad guys seem interested less in physically destroying Buffy, and more interested in destroying her self image, belief system, and confidence. Why is that? This particular issue of Time of Your Life was all about questions, and that was the last one.
     
    UnKle: Seriously amazing.
  14. UnKle

    UnKle girl random

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    N4H, I'd give you about 40 million karma points if I could!

    Just amazing. I am getting this now. And I am starting to realize the gravity of this story. It's huge - as in extinction of the Slayer line huge.

    Wow... wow.
     
  15. nerd4hire

    nerd4hire Certified Uncloneable

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    I reread that, what I wrote though, and I'm thinking it might turn out to be a tad simplistic to suggest the morality of Dark Willow is black and white, and she's black.

    She does appear to express regret (sadness) at her need to break down Buffy. She says only time is stronger than love, and that does appear to suggest her need to damage Buffy is some kind of compromise.

    Speaking of shades of morality. I think there's more added to the Buffyverse idea vampires can love. I think this bit from Harth concerning his feelings for his sister might be something fans could consider when discussing that topic...

    [​IMG]
     
  16. CharmedSlayer85

    CharmedSlayer85 Potential

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    Well Joss always said that vampires can actually love and even Drusilla said that in Season Five of Buffy when she was saying we can love, we can love quite well. It's just that vampires don't love like humans do, which is understandly because they're not human
     
  17. UnKle

    UnKle girl random

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    I don't think of original Dark Willow in terms of black and white, but rather different shades of gray. She was emotional and inexperienced with that kind of magic, and because of that, her ride at the top was a quick one. But after that, she was apparently always going to be connected to the dark arts. And magic is who she is. If the world is suddenly without magic because of Buffy, I can imagine bad things happening.

    I went back and re-read passages in issue #10. I think going back and re-reading that issue makes a few more pieces fall into place for me. Something big and bad does happen in the future between Willow and Buffy, I just don't know what it is. There's some kind of betrayal, and Buffy is left hurt, but Willow's... where?

    In the scenes that close issue #17, I recognize at least a distant sadness in Dark Willow, and it makes me wonder what's going to happen to cause it.
     
  18. CharmedSlayer85

    CharmedSlayer85 Potential

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    Yeah that does make me think, if magick ceased to exist wouldn't that mean Willow would die? Because after the events of Season Six Giles basically said that magick is apart of Willow now which is why she can't quit like she did during the beginning of the season. But then again I guess not, cause she's apparently still alive in the future. Maybe all magick didn't disappear just the magick that keeps the demons in this dimension
     
  19. UnKle

    UnKle girl random

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    Huge, somewhat random and completely left-field guess here, but it sounds like Willow and Buffy are about to go head to head over whether or not there should be 2,000 slayers, or magic. Seems that having both is creating a powerful imbalance in the world, and one of them has to go. If there was a way for magic to be saved, say... preserved in a powerful uber-witch... well, consequences could be devastating.
     
  20. nerd4hire

    nerd4hire Certified Uncloneable

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    I keep wondering, what does the phrase "slayer of slayers" really mean. Does it mean Buffy ends the slayer line herself?

    Also what does the Watcher Diaries passage Fray read mean when it says Buffy came back to her time "changed". What does changed mean there, I wonder.
     
    Superstar: Seriously, aside from my comment above it may have to do with the cartoon cover tie-ins.