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Canon Watch (Spoilers for current issue)

Discussion in 'Season 8' started by nerd4hire, Jun 7, 2007.

  1. Superstar

    Superstar 33.3bar% Pure Evil

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    Buffy slays all the slayers.
    She comes back "changed" so another actress can portray her. ;)

    Hah! Never say I don't have an optimistic attitude.
     
  2. nerd4hire

    nerd4hire Certified Uncloneable

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    I was thinking maybe something might happen like Buffy comes back all twisted in her head, and uses the scythe to end the slayer line.

    That couldn't be though, because in the Fray series they say there were still slayers after Buffy they were just never "called". What I gathered they meant by 'called' there was the watchers didn't train them to do what slayers do.
     
  3. UnKle

    UnKle girl random

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    A slayer of slayers is not a slayer; it is a vampire.

    *cue dramatic music*
    [​IMG]
     
  4. Allycat

    Allycat www.VirtualSlayer.net

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    When Buffy meets Dark Willow, causes much distress to the Slayer. She will want to save her friend from the darkness, and thinks that ending the age of magic is the only way to do so. The Slayer-line will be disassembled in the process. What Buffy doesn't realise is that the this is the very act that upset Willow to the point where she turned evil again.

    Just a thought.
     
  5. caitaintdead

    caitaintdead caiters gonna cait

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    Black Thorn
    Wow, thankyou so much for that N4H, I actually understand half of what's going on now. I just can't help but think slayer of slayers is Spike... Or the First... Or the bringers... I dunno, this latest arc is still confusing me a bit, I think I might just hold off on reading it for awhile.
     
  6. nerd4hire

    nerd4hire Certified Uncloneable

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    If you were going to wait for the TPB collection of issues of this particular arc I wouldn't blame you. This might be the best one so far to read as a single story. And another advantage to doing that in this case is while you were waiting you could get the TPB for Fray. No amount of explaining Fray will give you the experience you can get from reading it. It's a great read.
     
  7. nerd4hire

    nerd4hire Certified Uncloneable

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    Time of Your Life: Part 3

    I've been hesitating to offer a post on the canon changes in part 3. So much is up in the air, and not understood at this point one runs the risk of having to apologize for being wrong next month.

    In fact let's start with that. I may have to apologize for a point made last month. It's because of this.

    [​IMG]

    Last month Fray pegged Buffy as the "last girl". This appeared to place Buffy as the last girl in Urkon's tale of the last slayer in the final battle.

    Buffy now appears to be qualifying this. She appears to be saying the books where Fray got the information leading her to believe Buffy was the "last girl", is fuzzy...unclear as to who actually did what.

    Even more confusing, there is no mention in the books of Buffy's slayer army. Was the book edited? Was the past edited? At this point who knows? (I have a feeling I'll be saying that again in future paragraphs).

    But Buffy appears to take enough from what she read in the books, and what she is seeing in the future to be knocked for a psychological loop. She's not happy. There's even tears.

    [​IMG]

    Here's a problem with this issue from a canon perspective. Nothing much actually happens. Things are about to happen, but there's no real changes. Part 3 is about the set up.

    Dawn and Xander are still running through the forest. Oh, one interesting thing there though. They meet talking trees. Dawn accuses them of being in "legend blend". This may be a sneaky general reference by Whedon not only to the unusual circumstance in this scene, but to background stuff in Season 8 in general. It's a writer's trick I've heard mentioned before. When you've introduced stuff that feels off, draw attention to it. In this way you let the reader know you get it too.

    And even when something does happen you're not sure exactly what that is. Fray's vampire brother Harth goes to visit Gunther. Harth is up to something.

    What though? Does he plan to kill Gunther, to kidnap him, to hold him down, and give him a stern talking to? Who knows.

    We know this at least. Buffy is still a bad driver.

    [​IMG]

    Fray and Buffy go Lurk hunting. They want to find out what Harth is up to. They find some.

    Buffy has become a "big picture" kind of strategist. She wants to hold back, watch and see what the lurks are up to. This in spite of the fact humans are being attacked, and that's interesting, I think.

    Fray, of course is Fray, and her solution is to jump into (if you'll excuse the expression), the Fray. Buffy holds back, watching.

    Or as Fray puts it...

    [​IMG]

    Fray chases the lurks off. Buffy follows. She finds lurk central, but not before she crashes her hover craft.

    Back at the aftermath of the battle Fray meets Dark Willow.

    DW wants to show Fray something. She conjures up a ball of green energy. This is interesting...

    [​IMG]

    In the last issue Willow expressed concern who ever arranged the time transfer had more power than she did. Here it appears DW does not have much power. Is DW lying? Was Willow wrong? Is somebody else involved? Who knows?

    We do know Buffy returns to Melaka's Watcher pad where she meets Melaka's sister, Erin. Buffy tells her she "thought about being a cop". That's a little more information than what What's My Line told us. Apparently a big consideration was she didn't like the outfits. ;)

    Oh, but wait...we forgot Willow. Canony bits are happening to Willow.

    Willow is still trying to figure out how to get Buffy back to the present. She wants to know why Saga Visuki appears to have set her up. She asks Kennedy to trust her. She is going to try contact SV.

    Remember how in Anywhere but Here we were offered the disturbing image of Naked Willow with Saga Visuki. We are given some info to explain that particular outfit, or lack of one. In order for willow to enter Saga Visuki's plain of existence it appears to be necessary to be naked. Kind of a Terminator thing, I guess.

    Willow tells SV it's tricky, and she can't stay long. I'm going to assume that's because she left naked from the room she was sharing with Kennedy after telling Kennedy "Trust me".

    Saga Visuki suggests there's more to the story than her simply lying to Willow about the true nature of the time rift. She also appears to doubt Willow when she tells her she does not have the power to retrieve Buffy. But Willow says only somebody on the "deep dark" can do it. So what does that mean? Who knows?

    We learn the information concerning the time rift did not come from Saga Visuki herself, but from "someone she trusted".

    Who was that? Dark Willow? Twilight? Somebody we haven't met yet? You know the anwer by now. Starts with who, ends with knows.

    We do discover the rift will open again "that night". Saga Visuki makes Willow promise when she retrieves Buffy she will not look across it.

    Meanwhile back at Fray's Buffy has been having a big sisterly bonding session with Erin. All at once Fray walks in and zaps Buffy with a stun gun.

    Whatever Dark Willow showed Fray it must have been some mean mojo, because when Erin asks her what she's doing she replies...

    [​IMG]

    So what does that mean? Who knows? Hopefully next issue, we will.
     
  8. nerd4hire

    nerd4hire Certified Uncloneable

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    This quote from the recent Whedon interview seems pretty key.

    Splash Page
     
  9. Mr. Pole

    Mr. Pole Scooby

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    Black Thorn
    Okay.. I got all the back issues.. and I think I found something no one mentioned (at least as far as I can tell) and didnt know where else to put it.
    It occurs in Time Of Your Life part 1, bottom panel, page (there are no page numbers! how can a BOOK not have page numbers?!?! oh my!!.. okay.. middle of the book)

    Where Willow is making the drawing of the temporal disturbance. One assumes that the temporal disturbance of which she draws is related to Fray, but does not the symbol she draws look oddly enough like
    [​IMG]
    Now one could assume that the twilight symbol is meant to represent the actions taken in Choosen. As the bang being the energy pulled from the scythe, and the shift in timeline, the slayer activation.. however, maybe it is meant also to represent Twilight himself... With that in mind would it be difficult to assume that Twilight is someone in (but maybe not FROM) the past. (the future going back to the past.. future being the present time.. not future time... that make sense?) In other words going back to the events in Choosen, we see Twilight there watching all the action etc etc.

    Also, my initial thought upon seeing this
    [​IMG]
    was that Willow was bringing Dawn back. Since, Glory keep calling her pretty green energy, since i can see head, bosom and even hips. but no one else mentioned it before so... I assumed I was wrong
     
  10. nerd4hire

    nerd4hire Certified Uncloneable

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    Interesting comparison of the Twilight symbol to Willow's time rift drawing. You mean the incomplete second one here right?

    [​IMG]

    On the no page numbers in the book thing. Is it one of the books in Fray's library you're talking about? At least one of those is a Watcher's Journal, isn't it? That wouldn't necessarily have a page number.

    Yeah, the girlishness of the green smoke. I hadn't noticed that. You think that's significant?

    One does wonder what DW could have possibly shown Fray which would make her want to attack Buffy. Fray doesn't know Dawn but...

    I warped this weird theory I heard one time for my own, where Fray's demon monkey could turn out to be Dawn's third transformation. I wonder... I do hope that monkey is going to turn out to have some kind of significance, because that would be cool. Other than that though, what could Dawn have to do with Fray, I wonder.
     
    Scobro: no, i meant page numbers on the COMIC book.. wanted to tell you what page it was one.. and yes, that is the one.
  11. Mr. Pole

    Mr. Pole Scooby

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    Black Thorn
    Two things come to mind.. first, she is the key. It was never really fleshed out what all the key could do- other than send Glory home. What more could the key do?

    second possible answer, why Dawn would be involved "it's Summers blood"

    What does DW show her? First, how do you KNOW it's Dark Willow? anytime Willow did any spell, even the one to keep the Ubervamp out she got dark roots. So a spell to keep her alive would give her dark roots. I think the whole 'dark' aspect is just a red herring.

    What in Willows actions shown her to be 'bad?' What was she shown? I think simply the past. Like Fray said earlier (paraphrasing) someone has twisted Buffy. Willow brought Buffy to the future so she could see how messed up she has become.

    Buffy will have to bring down the slayer army she created.
     
  12. nerd4hire

    nerd4hire Certified Uncloneable

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    She's helping a vampire army turn people into vampires. Or so it seems at least.
     
  13. Mr. Pole

    Mr. Pole Scooby

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    Black Thorn
    It would seem that way, but maybe she is just looking at that "big picture" Buffy keeps talking about. Buffy was willing to sacrifice a few people just to track down some headquarters. So Williow will sarifice a few hundred to correct a mistake in the past.
     
  14. Chase Summers

    Chase Summers Going to Heaven!

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    She also said that she was the madwoman, and not to hold it against her because she was pretty sure she earned it. Translates to me: "hey, I'm evil, but you live centuries and see if it doesn't make you a little cranky." I was thinking about some stuff, and what if Good Willow is the princess that Dark Willow is referring to? The one leaving her kingdom for the forest of the now? Could be that Buffy is a red herring. Hasn't Buffy been referred to as "the queen" before? Makes sense to me that Willow could be the princess. I also think the information that the Snake Lady got was from Dark Willow. Buffy/Angel writers imo tend to make a lot of distinctions between the evil of a person and the good. So much so that the characters make the distinctions. For example Angel and his crew talk about Angelus as if he is a separate entity from Angel. Stands to reason the snake lady sees Dark Willow as a whole other person...one she can trust above good Willow. Besides we know that Willow is going to go get Buffy or at least reach in and get her. Things go wrong; she could fall in or something. Grrr...too many questions not enough answers. Time like this and the stories are no fun and frustrating especially since they delayed the next issue.
     
    Scobro: I took it literally; mad as in crazy. I still see no evidence of her being outright evil. Yet, at least.
  15. Perny

    Perny Guest

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    People with no souls can love. But people with souls can't love them back
     
  16. Chase Summers

    Chase Summers Going to Heaven!

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    I don't know if this has been covered; I don't remember reading it, but if it has, please forgive me. But I was doing some thinking on the "riddle" that Willow used with Harth: "Things in your time will cause your time to come." I don't recall Harth indicating that he understood, and at first I completely didn't. BUT it came to me last night while I was brushing my teeth. What if what she means to say is: "What/Who is coming and what happens in the here and now has to come to pass here in this time so that this time/future can still happen." Which, if true, would lend creditability to Future Willow being evil. I mean if she is indeed as evil as she seems then that is prime motivation to reach out and pull Buffy into the future to ensure that Buffy sees what's coming and goes back to her time to try to avoid it. Thus ensuring that despite her best efforts she can't prevent the future as that would completely render Fray's story (miniseries) completely useless. Seems to me the writers want to tie Fray in rather than discredit her. Evil Willow motivation as I see it would be probably the classic revenge against Buffy, and then making her (Evil Willow's) accomodations in the future neat and secure (i.e. something to do, and bringing back the demons and magics to the world). The only flaw in my theory is that if Buffy and Co are on the right track in the present, then wouldn't Fray's future not exist anyway? Unless of course there's something pivotal coming up in the present that is going to influence it one way or another. What do you guys think? Am I crazy/confused? Overthinking? LOL
     
  17. nerd4hire

    nerd4hire Certified Uncloneable

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    That quote above from Whedon concerning the Terminator series might factor in there I think.

    It all gets even more complicated when you factor in the conflicts between the Fray Comic and Chosen. Multiple slayer to one slayer, no demons or magic, then suddenly demons and magic in time of Fray. That sort of thing.

    Perhaps there's a clue in the teaser for 8.19.

    Buffy the Vampire Slayer Season 8 #19: Time of Your Life (Variant Cover) :: Profile :: Dark Horse Comics

    Apparently we have to wait almost three weeks for the next clue - November 12.
     
  18. La Luna Unita

    La Luna Unita Kung Fu Mama

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    This may only be a minor point, but I definitely picked up a more sexual nature to the relationship between SV and Willow - and I think that her trip to visit SV may have had something to do with the culmination of a sexual experience with Kennedy - which would explain the "trust me" statement and also why we don't see exactly how Willow enters SV's realm (except we know she's laying down on her back when she arrives). It also lends a double entendre (sp?) to SV's closing statement "Do come again." I think that Willow may be trading sexual favors for magical education and I also think that Kennedy may not be aware of what she's helping Willow accomplish.

    I think this is further evidenced by the next panel showing a brightly awake Kennedy gazing happily at a slightly down-turned Willow. Willow doesn't look as though she has been sneaking out or trying to return to the room. She does, however, look a little guilty. I guess we'll have to wait and see if there's more to this story.
     
    nerd4hire: You've almost got me talked into it.
    Chase Summers: I totally agree. Magic, Sex, and Power have always been entertwined on Buffy
  19. nerd4hire

    nerd4hire Certified Uncloneable

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    Here's something I find interesting about the hints Willow has been slithering about in the tall grass with Saga Visuki.

    Whenever the Satsu-Buffy relationship is mentioned we here cries of "not true to the character of Buffy". The argument to that is the environmental pressures, ethical challenges of Season 8, and evolution of Buffy's character into an experimental phase explain the relationship. Yet Willow's possible relationship with a snake lady is not met with disapproval based on character conflict. Why not? How is Willow making it with Saga Visuki in Season 8 true to her character, where Batsu is not considered true to the Buffy character? For one thing Willow would be cheating on Kennedy. Would even Season 8 Willow be doing that?
     
  20. Chase Summers

    Chase Summers Going to Heaven!

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    Well, I see where you're coming from, but for me it's all in what seeds have been planted in the characters. For example: Buffy has never (to my knowledge) harbored any type of lesbian tendencies or for a better interpretation, she has never been shown to have such. She kinda freaked when she found out about Willow and Tara. And Kennedy has said that she figured Buffy for a homophobe in Time of Your Life Part 2. The writers have conditioned our view of Buffy to be a strong man loving woman. Whereas Willow has been evil. It's not a far jump or even big surprise that she'd be getting it on with snake lady. Buffy herself has said that Willow has an addictive personality and this tendency has been shown with Willow. The whole magic as drugs metaphor seems kinda faulty to me if Willow can "overcome" her "addiction" and it be useful. I mean, sure, drug addicts in the real world can't just stop because it can do wonky stuff to their bodies and increase the likelihood of relapse. At the same time they are tapered off or their bodies are fooled (ala methadone or something) and then they can never touch anything that could bring about a "high" again. To me it's probably the same deal with magic. Doesn't matter if it's white/good magic, an addiction is an addiction. IMO it's not at all shocking that Willow would/could get wrapped up snake lady. As she said herself in season 1: "I just wanna learn stuff."
     
    La Luna Unita: I think that's an excellent insight.