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Question does anyone else ship cordelia and faith

Discussion in 'Season 3' started by smgismyqueenjpg, Apr 29, 2017.

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  1. smgismyqueenjpg

    smgismyqueenjpg I'm not a QUEEN! I'm Khaleesi!

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    Black Thorn
    Or am I the only 1?
     
  2. thetopher

    thetopher Member of the Church Of Faith

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    Sineya
    While I do see parallels between them:
    they are both a shadow-self of Buffy.
    both blunt in their opinions.
    both sexually confident.
    both somewhat cynical in their world views and about guys in general.
    both close to Angel in a platonic way.

    I never really see them 'together'.
    Mainly because Cordelia is probably the straightest female character on the show . :) Plus they never interact all that much. I'm not even convinced Cordelia even liked Faith. At all. Also Faith is poor and too trashy for Cordelia to consider friendship, never mind anything else.

    I think they only had three scenes where they exchanged dialogue, and in one of them Faith elbows Cordelia violently in the face.

    Still, non-canon ships are usually an exercise in fantasy-building and seeing connections. And there are more unlikely ships you could name.
    Cordelia had a tenancy to pick the 'wrong' sort of guy for her, plus her jealousy of Buffy mirrors Faith's own,. especially in S3. Hell, after 'Revelations' and 'Lover's Walk' they're both on the outs with the Scooby gang (*tsk* that Xander!), they could've formed their own anti-Scooby club!
     
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  3. Benz

    Benz Potential

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    Cordelia hated Faith moment she sure her and I think Cordelia hated her most.
     
  4. Priceless

    Priceless I am now

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    Cordelia was the most mature and self-confident person on BtVS, Faith was the exact opposite. Opposites do attract but in this case I don't think Cordy would have been inclined to put up with Faith's bs. Cordy would say 'Faith, stop being who you think you should be and just be who you are, like me'. Cordy might have helped Faith in her journey, but I don't think she would have wanted to
     
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  5. Athene

    Athene Scooby

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    Cordy was far from the most mature person on btvs, she was literally the school mean girl, since when is insulting people mature?
     
    GraceK: Yes! Not to mention her petty jealousy of Buffy.
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  6. Priceless

    Priceless I am now

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    There is a real maturity in knowing yourself and being completely comfortable in your own skin, as Cordy was and Faith really was not.
     
  7. Athene

    Athene Scooby

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    She knew herself, but the person she knew herself as was not a mature person.
     
  8. Priceless

    Priceless I am now

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    The maturity is in the knowing. Of recognising who you are and accepting yourself. It takes Buffy and Willow 7 seasons to get where Cordy is in S1 and I'm not sure Faith as ever got there on the tv show
     
  9. Athene

    Athene Scooby

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    So Cordelia recognising that she's a bully and being okay with it is mature??? I don't think so. It's immature, like Cordy was in btvs, it's not until she got onto Angel that she gained maturity.
     
  10. Priceless

    Priceless I am now

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    It's the acceptence of yourself that shows a maturity. Cordy knew her short comings and accepted them, she was always her own best friend, which is a sign of maturiy imo. I've only seen 3 episodes of Angel so can't really comment on that version of Cordy.
     
  11. Athene

    Athene Scooby

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    It's not a mature thing to do to accept that you're a rude person and be okay with it. For the majority of btvs, Cordy is a bully, and picking on people is never a mature thing to do. Therefore btvs Cordy isn't mature, I'm pretty sure the Cordy of Angel season 5 would look back on her btvs days and cringe at herself and her rude behaviour.
     
    GraceK: Anyone who picks and bullies others to make themselves feel better is In no way mature
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  12. GraceK

    GraceK Grr Arrg

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    I'm sorry I completely disagree. Cordelia season 1 was on no level mature. She was the worst version of herself back then. To say she was years ahead of Buffy and Willow is so bizarre. Everything she did in season 1 was for status and popularity...how on earth is that being secure and knowing yourself? Even in season 2 she purposely breaks up with Xander, even though she is falling for him, to appease her idiot friends. She had no confidence to tell them off and be true to her feelings until the end of the episode. Season 3 she hides her poverty and the fact that she's working, all because she's too insecure and embarrassed to be open about her circumstances...she doesn't want to be judged the way she judges others. She was willing to sleep with Russell in AtS to get herself fame...what stops her is recognizing he's a vampire. So yeah, Cordelia is not the poster child for a secure , complete woman. Her true growth and maturity come towards the end of season 1 on AtS, and continues from there.

    Also, it's deeply unfair to try to compare a spoiled rich girl to a damaged slayer...Cordelia could never understand what Faiths life is like...if she seems more "secure " than Faith it's because she was a pampered princess with all the superficial luxuries that her upbringing gave her.
     
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  13. Priceless

    Priceless I am now

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    She probably would look back and cringe, but wouldn't we all :) All I can say is that imo a sign of maturity is to accept who you are, good/bad/indifferent, forgiving yourself for the bad and liking yourself for the good. We all change, and what is considered good at 17 may not be so at 24. I consider Cordy's self-confidence a sign of maturity, she knows herself, says what she thinks, never hides herself and when she does something wrong she forgives herself.
     
  14. Athene

    Athene Scooby

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    Cordy is not a mature person though, it's mature to know your mistakes and work through them, not to dismiss them because it's 'who you are'. Cordy works through them in ATS not btvs, therefore in btvs she's not mature.
     
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  15. thetopher

    thetopher Member of the Church Of Faith

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    Sineya
    Surely its more mature to recognize your faults and strive to improve yourself rather than to know yourself and just accept yourself as is. That just seems lazy and shallow to me.
     
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  16. GraceK

    GraceK Grr Arrg

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    I agree. An example of actual maturity is when Buffy purposely seeks out Willows friendship in season 1, knowing she is a dork but liking her anyway, instead of becoming a Cordelia hanger on to be popular. She had already moved past that version of herself. She was secure enough to look for deep friendships instead of shallow ones.
    --- Double Post Merged, Apr 30, 2017 ---
    Also, anyone who consistently puts others down to elevate themselves is in no way a secure person.
     
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  17. Priceless

    Priceless I am now

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    Cordy may have been the worse version of herself in S1, though I think that was actually S3. But compared to the other teens on the show, she was the most mature, and was so because she understood and accepted herself, good and bad.

    Buffy spent those high school years trying bring The Girl and The Slayer halves of herself together. Willow suffered low self-esteem and only felt any form of confidence once she'd found magic, Xander had issues with his confidence and his masculinity and Faith had a miriad of issues which she covered up with aggression and violence. So Cordy was the most mature because she had self-confidence, she believed in herself and she was kind to herself. She accepted who she was and didn't need to battle against her own nature as the others did.

    I am in no way saying Cordelia was a totally self-actualised human being, but on BtVS seasons 1-3, she was the most mature character (not including adult characters)

    This may very well be true, but it doesn't change the fact that Cordy was the most mature character. Her upbringing probably did have an effect, but that doesn't change the outcome. I agree if Faith.Buffy/Willow had the same upbriging they might be the most mature.
    --- Double Post Merged, Apr 30, 2017 ---
    I would probably agree, but that is not my point. My point is that on BtVS Seasons 1-3 Cordy is the most mature of the teenage characters. As I say, she is nowhere near self-actualised in any way, nor are any other others. Butif you believe Buffy is more mature, or Willow or Faith, then I would have do disagree with you
     
  18. GraceK

    GraceK Grr Arrg

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    Being nice to yourself and having self confidence in no way makes you mature. You haven't actually responded to all the things I pointed out about Cordelia NOT being a confident mature person. How does Buffy trying to compartmentalize both her slayer and girl sides make her not mature? I am honestly befuddled . Buffy is ten times more secure and
    Mature than Cordelia is. She doesn't have to prove anything to anybody...she goes out of her way to be friends with Willow who Cordelia
    Mercilessly makes fun of, giving up her shot to be popular...cause she gives no actual craps what Cordelia thinks of her. She values QUALITY in her friendships. Unlike Cordelia who literally is a slave to eveeyone else's view of her. She can't even properly thank the Scoobies in season 1 for saving her life in Out of Mind, Out of Sight cause she's afraid of losing her social status. Her self confidence literally comes from her looks and wealth, she has no real confidence in herself as a person. Once she loses her wealth, You see her self worth literally crumble in Ats pilot, hence her willingness to demean herself for a chance at stardom. she literally insults and puts down anyone she sees as not cool enough to be her friend, all to elevate herself and make herself feel better. Again, not the character trait of a secure person.

    Faith actually comes across as quite confident, in her sexuality and power, just as Cordelia does, although LIKE Cordelia on the inside she is insecure.

    You seem to mixing up aggressiveness with maturity. Just because Cordelia is outspoken and bitchy, doesn't make her a mature or secure person.

    She was literally cast as Buffy's shadow self, to make a comparison what Buffy USED to be before she was called, and to show how far Buffy had Matured and grown from that valley girl she used to be.
     
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  19. Priceless

    Priceless I am now

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    To me, a sign of maturity is to accept yourself, not be constantly battling against yourself. I felt that Buffy, Willow and Faith were constantly battling against themselves to achieve a version of themselves they felt was more acceptable. Cordy accepted who she was, therefore having no interior battle to engage in. For me this is a sign of someone who has moved from the teenage-angst stage of life into a more mature stage of accepting the version they are without feeling a need to conform to anyone elses ideas of who they should be.

    I am not saying that Cordelia is a good person. She does not thank the scoobies because she does not believe she has too, it is not a sign of immaturity. She knows she enjoys a certain social status, she is proud of that fact, she accepts it, and maturity is all about acceptance. You seem to be equating 'good' and 'secure' with 'mature' and that isn't neccessarily true. In many ways Cordy is a grown woman on BtVS and the others are children.

    For Faith to only find confidence in sex is a sign of real immaturity imo. She has confidence in her power because she is a Slayer, it's easy to have confidence in that aspect of yourself. It's harder for people like Cordy, who have no supernatural abilities to be self-confident - look at Xander, yet Cordy achieves it.

    Cordelia is herself. That's the point. Whether that self be bitchy and outspoken or sweet and quite, as long as you are self-aware and happy with that knowledge and with who you are, you have reached a level of maturity that those who are not happy have not. And imo Buffy, Faith and Willow don't reach that level of self-awareness till S7. (Of course once I've watched Angel all the way through I may have to re-think my opinions)
     
  20. GraceK

    GraceK Grr Arrg

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    I see where you are coming from, but I still completely disagree. :) I appreciate your point of view.
     
    Priceless: Yeah me too, just different perspectives, all views are valid :-)
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