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Does dawn actually have a soul?

Discussion in 'Season 5' started by S Rou, Jun 2, 2017.

  1. S Rou

    S Rou Townie

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    If I was Buffy, I would have beat the shit out of those monks for messing with my life.
     
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  2. Anyanka Bunny Killer

    Anyanka Bunny Killer Is it difficult or time-consuming?

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    Black Thorn
    It was quite obvious that Drusilla DID love Spike, and Angel...in her own psychotic way. And why couldn't she love them both? Are you saying that love can only be directed towards one person at a time? As for Darla...cruelty in relationships isn't unknown. In humans OR vampires.
     
  3. S Rou

    S Rou Townie

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    He was basically just Angel's fill-in.
     
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  4. Fool for Buffy

    Fool for Buffy Neutered vampire who cheats at kitten poker

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    Sineya
    She probably would have if that one she found wasn't already dying.
    --- Double Post Merged, Jun 3, 2017 ---
    Romantic love is without a doubt, toward one person at a time. And Darla told Angel she would not be able to love her child once he was born because she would no longer have the soul that the baby had. Clearly, she understands that she never loved Angelus because she is incapable of it. As for Drusilla, what is "her own psychotic way", because it seemed like she would just be with whoever wanted her. She hooked up with a chaos demon and the Immortal.
     
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  5. Anyanka Bunny Killer

    Anyanka Bunny Killer Is it difficult or time-consuming?

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    Black Thorn
    You speak in absolutes regarding love...perhaps for you, romantic love can only be directed towards one person at a time. For others, it can be very different.

    As for Drusilla...you can love someone AND fool around with others. Absolutely no question about that.
     
  6. Priceless

    Priceless She doesn't just fight evil, she redeems it

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    The monk tells Buffy that Dawn is Human, Helpless and Innocent. To me, in the Buffyverse, that means Dawn has a soul.

    Buffy is the hero, she had to die in Dawn's place, because to sacrifice an innocent in such a way, and Dawn is an innocent (see above) would be unconscionable.

    You can love more than one person at a time, that's what makes the concept of 'soulmate' so ridiculous.

    Riley was a good man, but too convervative to ever be happy in the increasingly grey world Buffy had to exist in. Sam and the army seem much better suited for him.
     
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  7. DeadlyDuo

    DeadlyDuo Scooby

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    To which Drusilla replies "We can you know. We can love quite well, if not wisely".

    I think I'd be more inclined to listen to the vampire's opinion on whether vampires can love rather than Buffy's biased view.
     
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  8. WillowFromBuffy

    WillowFromBuffy "My bowling shoe fetish is not the issue here."

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    Willow in New Moon Rising would disagree with you.

    I am personally not sure how much Dru loves Spike. It is definitely not unconditional love, but she comes back for him in Crush, even though he is in her eyes at his lowest.
     
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  9. DeadlyDuo

    DeadlyDuo Scooby

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    Dru does love Spike hence why she is so hurt by his "betrayal" of siding with the slayer during the season 2 finale. The thing with Angelus is because of underlying issues IMO. If you notice, Dru continues her relationship with Spike despite Angelus being on the scene so she didn't just drop him.
     
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  10. RomanticSoul

    RomanticSoul I AM GROOT

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    Does Dawn have a soul? Good question. And if she has one, whose is it? Because it can't be her own.

    Technically she shouldn't have one. Because where would it come from? Dawn isn't a born human. She actually isn't really human either, she is the key in human form and all that keeps her continuing to exist in that form (or any form) is magic. So if she isn't really human she wouldn't have or need a human soul.
     
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  11. DeadlyDuo

    DeadlyDuo Scooby

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    Maybe Dawn has part of Buffy's soul? The monks made her out of Buffy, who's to say they didn't use some of Buffy's soul as well? It could explain why Buffy was able to close the portal, because the portal couldn't distinguish between the two.
     
  12. Last Watcher

    Last Watcher Tweed Icon

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    Sineya
    Might also explain why Buffy herself became a lot more cold & dispassionate in the later series......she had lost some of her soul?
     
    thrasherpix: Fascinating thought!
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  13. Anyanka Bunny Killer

    Anyanka Bunny Killer Is it difficult or time-consuming?

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    Black Thorn
    Well...I don't know if a soul can be shared or split. Either way, I thought only the Key could close the portal; something about its "specialness" or something...?
    Yes, Dawn and Buffy shared the same blood, yet Buffy was a real human...and despite her Slayer origins, she wasn't composed of the same magical elements that Dawn was. I don't understand why the portal would accept Buffy, frankly.

    Unless the writer just said, "Screw it, Buffy closes the portal...period."
     
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  14. thetopher

    thetopher Member of the Church Of Faith

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    Sineya
    Dawn has a soul in every way that matters; we just have to look at her actions.
     
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  15. thrasherpix

    thrasherpix Scooby

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    Fate is the wrong word (though it's closer where Buffy will face the Master and she dies) and I should've used a better one. What I meant was is that being a Slayer (as opposed to an everyday woman) is a death sentence. You get special powers, but also a greatly decreased lifespan. Buffy could've tried to run from that fate, or perhaps I should say inevitable end (as she did momentarily in season 1), she could even go bad (like Ford did), or she could rise to meet it (as she did in season 1, and then again in season 5). That's a death that means something and gives something back to others, which is more than can be said for most deaths. And it also shows how selfless Buffy was when she essentially killed (or worse) Angel to save the world in season 2, but it wouldn't look so selfless if Buffy decided she was above such sacrifice herself.
    --- Double Post Merged, Jun 3, 2017 ---
    If humans have souls, then I'd say yes (though not necessarily identical to a human soul).
     
  16. RomanticSoul

    RomanticSoul I AM GROOT

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    So we are back to the whole 'partial soul' thing? Neat. So if Dawn has one then maybe Fury had a point when he said Spike had a 'partial soul' the whole time. That's awesome because then Spike is truly the most evil vampire that ever existed. Love it.
     
  17. Priceless

    Priceless She doesn't just fight evil, she redeems it

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    A crazy idea, but could the soul have been Celias? Can you use someone elses soul? That would explain why it wasn't so difficult for Buffy to bond with Dawn, because her soul was already known to her and already part of the Summers family.
     
  18. DeadlyDuo

    DeadlyDuo Scooby

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    Vampires have been stated to be soulless. Dawn hasn't.
     
  19. RomanticSoul

    RomanticSoul I AM GROOT

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    Not Spike though, according to Fury. Since you said Dawn may have part of Buffy's soul, I don't see why that shouldn't be the case for anyone else. Including vampires. If partial souls are possible, no one is exempt from it. In Spike's case it would be a part of William's soul that got left behind. Either partial souls exist and therefor anyone can be afflicted with that, or they aren't possible.
     
  20. DeadlyDuo

    DeadlyDuo Scooby

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    In-show it's been stated that vampires are soulless, that is canon. It's never been stated in-show that Dawn hasn't a soul. Fury could suddenly turn round and say that Willow isn't a lesbian but was just experimenting with Tara, wouldn't make it true, since in-show, Willow has identified as a lesbian.

    We're just coming up with theories for where Dawn's soul could have come from if she has one since she isn't "real". The partial soul theory is just a theory and could be a special case rather than a general rule, kind of like how Angel was a vampire with a soul but souled vampires weren't a general thing.