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Feminist Review

Discussion in 'Season 1' started by sosa lola, May 16, 2016.

  1. Carrie Hopewell

    Carrie Hopewell Little girl lost in the woods

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    Sineya
    I don't think those are her intentions at all, but the feminist community is already seen as being in constant disagreement. I'm a part of a couple of feminist groups and we don't go around commenting on each other's feminism. I'm saying that calling other feminists out is a disservice to feminism, especially when she only does that to disagree with them and defends Joss's (a man) feminism after.

    Being a radical feminist is never a good thing. That's why she used it to disagree with those feminists, by calling their views extreme and therefore unreasonable. When feminists get called radical, it's usually because their views are seen as irrational, man-hating or both. When I was called a radical feminist that was an insult. A friend of mine thought that my ideas weren't doable and far-fetched. That is usually how the term is used imo. I think we were using different ideas of radical: I was using it in general and you were thinking of a specific group.

    I agree. I'm not saying she is wrong (sometimes she is, but that's subjective), but the way she criticizes certain feminists for not seeing Joss's feminism is definitely sending the wrong message. And yes, her worshiping of Joss is grating.
     
  2. Guy

    Guy Scooby

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    Black Thorn
    I don't think that her phrasing is a problem. If she thinks that something isn't sexist, then she should say exactly that. I guess her phrasing can make her sound preachy, but... Feminism is a political ideology, so a feminist review is, by its very definition, preachy.

    Also, I don't really know how you can write a feminist review without defining clearly what is and isn't feminist, and that means that you'll inevitably criticize other types of feminists. That's the problem with analysing art through an ideological lense - art is inherently subjective, but ideology is inherently objective. It's a very complicated issue, and I don't really know how to solve it.

    I think that maybe the best option here is if she'll just give her feminist review of episodes without acknowledging those common feminist criticisms (that she disagrees with) at all. It won't make her review any less "preachy", but it will at least solve the "feminists fighting among themselves" issue. Maybe?

    I agree that "radical feminist" is a pretty useless term nowadays. It's too relative to say anything meaningful, so it just tends to turn debates into arguments.
     
  3. Carrie Hopewell

    Carrie Hopewell Little girl lost in the woods

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    Sineya
    She doesn't define her feminism or the feminism of the people she is criticizing. She just says 'some feminists'. But what feminists? What do they believe in that she doesn't as a philosophy?

    It's not about her acknowledging that or disagreeing with other feminist readings of the episodes. It's a feminist review so naturally she will speak about problematic scenes or scenes that are considered sexist by other viewers. But I believe she can simply say 'Some think this particular moment is sexist but I disagree.' and it's clear she is handling it from a feminist perspective. When she says 'some feminists' it's like she doesn't include herself in the group. She never calls herself directly a feminist or say 'some feminists like me think this'. It's her view vs those other feminists. It doesn't sit right with me. Instead of celebrating feminists (that's truly the wrong word but I don't have a better one), she just critiques other feminist's opinions and usually celebrates Joss's. I'm not saying she isn't a feminist who appreciates other feminists, but her phrasing excludes feminists.

    I know that feminists don't always agree on the same thing. I've criticized other people's feminism plenty. However, I've also admired other feminists. Her lack of 'us feminists' and use of 'some feminists' or 'radical feminists' isn't very sympathetic towards other feminists who are also trying to do a feminist review of shows (something that isn't done very frequently). Those other feminists are usually wrong and she never tries hard to defend their perspectives. Again, I'm not saying she isn't a feminism who admires other feminists.

    But I guess this is a pet peeve? Also, I've never used the word 'feminist' too many times.
     
  4. Guy

    Guy Scooby

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    Black Thorn
    If we accept sexism as the opposition of feminism (which I do), then she's defining feminism whenever she says something like "this is sexist" (which means "this is not feminist") or "this is not sexist" (which means "this is feminist"... although this is less clear).

    Well, she also titles her videos "feminist review", so, there's that.

    I definitely agree that there's a troubling anti-feminist vibe online in a lot of places these days, and I agree that highlighting the differences between feminists isn't the most useful action a feminist can take... But I don't really get that vibe with her videos. Then again, that's just me, and I've only watched one review of hers yet ('Prophecy Girl'), so I'm not in a position to judge this.
     
    Carrie Hopewell: I accept that :) I didn't see it in her 'Angel' review for example, but I did in some other reviews.
  5. thrasherpix

    thrasherpix Scooby

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    Feminism is an ideology (in many flavors), not a gender (though it does focus on gender, some to emphasize it, others to try to negate the differences that they see as patriarchal illusions, often ones that hurt men as well as women). Men can be just as feminist as women (there's a pejorative for feminist men by anti-feminist men, and probably anti-feminist women as well), just as women can be anti-feminist (not just against a certain kind of feminism, but actually promote male domination and female submission as the ideal society, though granted many females who refuse to identify as a feminist seem to take many of their rights for granted and actually mean they're for the status quo brought to them by past feminists). Defending Joss's feminism over that of a female feminist who criticizes him (especially when it can be reasonably assumed the feminist in question didn't bother to learn more before criticizing) isn't gender-treachery or betrayal of feminism.
     
    Carrie Hopewell likes this.
  6. Carrie Hopewell

    Carrie Hopewell Little girl lost in the woods

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    Sineya
    You're very right about that. My point about not liking it when she says 'some feminists' still stands (I wasn't focusing my argument on Joss), but I was thinking of Joss as a man and I shouldn't be.
     
  7. HowiMetdaSlayer

    HowiMetdaSlayer Occasionally, I am callous and strange.

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    Oh my god - is the reviewer a robot or something? Hello, monotone much?
     
  8. The Ferg

    The Ferg Mine is an evil laugh!

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    Although I love all of Whedon's work, I am very much not about modern feminism, but I will definitely check this video out. Sounds interesting that someone can have a more nuanced approach by looking at more than one "wave" of feminism.