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Halfrek & Cecily - The Same Entity?

Discussion in 'Sunnydale Cemetery' started by Carrrrgh, Mar 10, 2011.

  1. Carrrrgh

    Carrrrgh :O

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    We got this discussion going a little bit in another thread, but it was off topic and im still curious of your opinions on the matter. There is some evidence that suggests Cecily was acually just a cover for Halfrek, being a vengence demon and all, making them the same person.

    Heres a little of how it got started:


    Thats pretty much where it left off. So whats your opinion? Are Cecily and Halfrek the same person?
     
  2. HisMrs

    HisMrs The Walking BED

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    We've discussed this before, and I think everyone is pretty much in agreement that Halfrek and Cicily are the same person. I thought in "Older and Far Away" when she calls him William, it pretty much confirms it.
     
  3. Scobro

    Scobro Scooby

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    Season 7, episode Lessons proves that Halfrek was around before Cecily, yet (a) writer and the actor both said that Cecily turned into Halfrek. Casting the same actor was just something Joss did. Look at Woodward (?) are you going to say he was the same person just because he was in three different continuities? Even if you throw out Firefly, there is still Angel which is in the same verse. Then what about Tom Lenk? He went from vampire to nerd. There was really no debate on that either.

    I think there was nothing to it but them having a bit of fun acknowledging they recycle actors.
     
    Tranquillity: Agree completely
  4. xaphania

    xaphania Spike/Buffy

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    Yeah, I've never had any doubt that they're the same person.

    The quick nod in 'Older and Far Away' indicates this, and the lack of continuity with Selfless can be easily explained away.
     
  5. Scobro

    Scobro Scooby

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    I just think if it were meant to be the same person/demon more would have been done with it.
     
  6. Lyri

    Lyri Buckle Up Tight

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    The fact that specifically had that line in 'Older and Far Away' proves to me that they're the same person. If they're not, what would be the point of having her recognize Spike as William?
     
  7. Zeppo

    Zeppo The Dark Avenger of BA

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    The point would be to have a jab at viewers who recognized her as Cecily. It was just a joke, a wink to the audience, but looking internally from the characters world she probably was the same person.

    Ex: On The OC, Amanda Reghetti (who at the time was also filming the TV show North Shore) returned as her character Hailey for a funeral. She asks another character - her ex, Jimmy - how he`s been enjoying Hawaii:

    Jimmy: It's fantastic. You would not believe the North Shore.
    Hailey: So I've heard. ...

    It`s just a jab. But to make sense of it, yes they were the same.
     
  8. xaphania

    xaphania Spike/Buffy

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    But with the Spike tie-in comic about Halfrek and William, surely that adds a little more credence to the idea that Halfrek and Cecily are the same person?

    I know those comics aren't canon but weren't they written with approval from the PTB?
     
  9. Zeppo

    Zeppo The Dark Avenger of BA

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    That's up to you. They approve the story outlines, yes. TBH, on first viewing, I didn't know what that little exchange meant as I didn't recognize her as anything but Halfrek so I figured there was gonna be a story that evolved between them but nah.

    Take it as you will. I'm sure one could write a comic book to suggest Halfrek and Spike had a history, seperate from Cecily.

    But honestly, it was just a wink that die-hards took as a clue to something and ran with it. Love it when writer's make fun of their show.
     
  10. Scobro

    Scobro Scooby

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    It's no different than all of the Firefly references which take place on Castle.
     
  11. Lyri

    Lyri Buckle Up Tight

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    It's one character recognizing another character within the same verse. It is not Nathan Fillion's character dressing up a Captain Mal. It's completely different.
     
    xaphania: Right.
    Scobro: eh, still not sold on the idea it was meant for a real purpose
  12. HisMrs

    HisMrs The Walking BED

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    Huh?? I don't see how you think it's the same... The "Firefly" jokes are on a totally different show, so that's what they are: jokes. The "Older and Far Away" line is in the same show, so it clearly proves that the writers want us to know that Cecily and Halfrek are the same person.
     
  13. prophecygrrl

    prophecygrrl The girl in question

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    I think it was meant to be a bit of a self-referential joke, but it wasn't originally intended for Halfrek and Cecily to be the same person. I read a meta a while ago that included some background info on what happened with casting:

    http://eleusis-walks.livejournal.com/47889.html#cutid1

    The rest of the meta is just excellent, if you want to go ahead and read it. :D
     
  14. Lyri

    Lyri Buckle Up Tight

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    But by 'playing with it' they brought it into canon, and made it a part of the verse. I'm sorry, but I will always believe that they are the same character, and no one will convince me otherwise. If they didn't want the fans to think Spike and Halfreck had some sort of connection, they never would have brought it into the text.

    People like The Judge/Luke, Kralik/Rack, Holden/Knox, it's obvious that there is NO WAY they could EVER be the same person. But with something like this, it's nice, I think, to allow the characters to be connected and allow us to feel like we're right for once, lol.
     
  15. HisMrs

    HisMrs The Walking BED

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    EXACTLY. This.... a million times. Why would they have even had that line in the script if they didn't want fans to make the connection?? I just do not buy that they were doing it as a joke.
     
  16. Scobro

    Scobro Scooby

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    Dear, I have numerous instruments of torture... thats just like a challenge to me. I will send thee to the rack until you refute your beliefs! You think the merrick dungeon is bad.... you just wait.
     
  17. Lyri

    Lyri Buckle Up Tight

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    Honey, let me tell you, I can withstand an immense amount torture. I live in excruciating agony every single day of my life. There is nothing worse than that that you could do to me.
     
  18. Carrrrgh

    Carrrrgh :O

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    I concur.

    The first time I heard the line in Older and Far Away, I thought she was a vengeance demon and the last time I heard that line, I knew she and Cecily were the same :)

    I like you Lyri, yes very much. You are great I always love hearing your opinion. There is NO way I believe that that line was a "Joke" or a "Throwaway line" NO WAY!! :)
     
    Lyri: Aw, thanks! That made my night, lol
  19. prophecygrrl

    prophecygrrl The girl in question

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    I totally agree that they're the same character. The writers did intend it as a cheeky joke (they even explicitly said so), but it still makes Halfrek and Cecily the same character. It's canon, period.

    What's interesting is that I think the writers really screwed some things up with this. They made Cecily and Halfrek the same character, but they were never willing to explore the repercussions of this. In the meta I linked to, the author talks about the lost opportunity here, and that in actuality having Halfrek as Cecily retcons some important things. The meta author, for example, makes the point that in establishing Halfrek as Cecily, it completely changes the context of her rejection of William in 'Fool For Love'. If the writers really explored this, it could've been brilliant in regard to Spike's character arc:

    It's probably just me, but I'm totally with the meta author on this, lol. Cecily and Halfrek are the same character, and though it started as a joke, it affects things more than the writers intended.
     
  20. Lyri

    Lyri Buckle Up Tight

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    I definitely agree with that. I would have loved to have explored that, and find out just what Spike would have done if he'd found out that Cecily was nothing but a fantasy created by a demon in the hopes of wreaking some vengeance. It would have changed the whole dynamic of Spike and a character.