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Holtz

Discussion in 'Season 3' started by GraceK, Mar 22, 2017.

  1. GraceK

    GraceK Grr Arrg

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    whats everyone's opinion on Holtz? I go back and forth a lot :)
     
  2. Carrie Hopewell

    Carrie Hopewell Little girl lost in the woods

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    Sineya
    Yeah, I can see why. I overall like Holtz as a character. I think the actor who played him did a great job.

    However, I don't think he was a good villain. His connection with Angel was there and his motivations made sense, but, meh. Who cares about some guy whose family Angel killed way back when? Angelus killed so many people. Do I really care about Holtz? And does Angel? Angel feels sympathy for Holtz (and guilt/regret), yet he barely interacts or seems to care about him. Wes spoke to and was more frighten of Holtz than Angel.

    I think Holtz was useless save from his role as Connor's father, and even then he was mostly a plot device - because Connor needed to grow up fast. I also didn't find Holtz was very entertaining. He was too serious and monotonous to be engaging.

    Imo, Lullaby and Benediction were the only times when Holtz was effective as a character and not as a plot device (aka Holtz kidnapping Connor). In Benediction, his one-on-one with Angel was great - full of chemistry, emotion and great writing. The way he used Justine and Connor, leaving Angel a pretty letter and Connor a corpse to find, was Holtz at his very best.
     
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  3. GraceK

    GraceK Grr Arrg

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    One thing I liked about Holtz is that we finally got to see how monstrous Angelus was. I know we saw him in BtVS season 2, but besides that, we only really heard about what a sadistic prick he was...it's easy to forget how evil Angelus was because we love Angel so much and we have so much sympathy for him. It was interesting to actually see the devastation he caused have actual ramifications . Looking at the whole story without bias, Holtz was one of the good guys. He was a vampire hunter, who clearly devoted his life to hunting and killing the forces of evil...and he gained nothing from it but the loss of his family. He lost everything, due to Darla and Angelus, and it was especially horrendous to have to kill his own daughter. And that poor baby Angelus ate!!! The whole thing is beyond horrible. I can clearly understand his motivations...hate can warp even a good person. Faced with all that, can we really expect Holtz to take a look at Angel and be like " well Gee he's good now! All better!" Lol. Actions have consequences, and I thought it was actually pretty cool to see firsthand the severe consequences of what Angelus has done. It was one of my favorite plots honestly .plus I think all the acting was great..to simultaneously feel bad for Holtz Angel and Darla is pretty good storytelling:)
    --- Double Post Merged, Mar 22, 2017 ---
    Also I'm rewatching Quickening, and the flashback of Angelus and Darla killing his family is heart wrenching...and the little baby crying has to be one of the most awful things I have heard...it's chilling. I had a hard time this season rooting for Angel :(
     
  4. thetopher

    thetopher Member of the Church Of Faith

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    Sineya
    Holtz was great; an effective yet human villain.
    I liked the fact that he was 'just' human and the emphasis was on his relentless fanaticism towards Angel and Darla that made him so dangerous. He couldn't be reasoned with because vengeance was all he had left; hew as a man who understood that hate and brought it out/manipulated it in others.

    Also it was good to get an actual victim of Darla & Angelus at their worst- to show us how horrible they had been in contrast to how they were in the present.

    And lets not forget that Holtz came very close to succeeding in his revenge, turning Angel's loved one into something like himself; a thing consumed by hate.
     
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  5. Anyanka Bunny Killer

    Anyanka Bunny Killer "I got these evil hand issues..."

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    Black Thorn
    He was a great character. (I especially loved his encounters with Sahjhian!)
    He was quietly determined...deadly, yet fair. Even after his family was slaughtered and his daughter turned, he recovered and became a man on a mission. I think he's one of the most underrated characters on Angel.

    It really helps that the actor who portrayed him was quite good.
     
    GraceK: I love Sahjann!!
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  6. GraceK

    GraceK Grr Arrg

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    Anyone think Holtz loved Connor at all? It's heartbreaking to think that he didn't...Connor has to be the most tragic figure.
     
  7. Carrie Hopewell

    Carrie Hopewell Little girl lost in the woods

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    Sineya
    I think he did. He said so himself. A lot of selfish, scumbag parents actually love their children. He was just to far gone to do right by Connor. All that hate and grief had messed him up completely.
     
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  8. GraceK

    GraceK Grr Arrg

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    Good point. I really have to admit that this was a great storyline . It hit all the feels. The only thing I could have done without is Justine. I honestly couldn't warm up to her AT ALL. Probably one of the most abrasive unlikable characters ever...and I hated the actress .
     
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