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I hate how Kennedy just forced herself on Willow and invited her self into group!

Discussion in 'Season 7' started by Benz, Aug 21, 2016.

  1. thetopher

    thetopher Member of the Church Of Faith

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    Sineya
    Uh, have to disagree. Kennedy's commentary on DW: ('Get It Done') 'Worst case scenario? You go brunette!' or how about ('Touched') 'Are you afraid you're going to turn into Big, Bad Willow?'
    It's just Kennedy seems to be all, 'hey remember that time you lost your girlfriend and tried to destroy the world with dark magics? Yeah, get over it 'cause I wanna pork already!'

    Kennedy just comes across as deeply insensitive and entitled. Like i said earlier when it comes to her own life? I get it, I don't like it but she's not afraid to speak her mind when it comes to her own life being on the line. Fine. But doing that to Willow? Urgh, scummy.

    Maybe its just the writing for all the Season 7 romances but I swear none of them were well-written at all. They tended to be lazy and/or forced.
     
  2. Guy

    Guy Scooby

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    Black Thorn

    I don't think that Kennedy didn't care about Willow's past or anything like that, I think it was just a combination of two things:

    1) Kennedy is kind of a naturally reckless person, so she just says whatever comes to her head, with little tact (kinda like Cordy, and Xander, and early Buffy, etc...). And she grows and learns to be more sensitive over time - in 7x19, for example, Kennedy seems to realize that she said something hurtful to Buffy by accident, and she apologizes for it:

    2) Kennedy just didn't UNDERSTAND Willow's past. She saw how adorable Willow is, and had trouble believing that someone so sweet could be so dangerous or in so much pain. She didn't disregard Willow's feelings, she just didn't know her so well yet.
     
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  3. thetopher

    thetopher Member of the Church Of Faith

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    Sineya
    That would explain it maybe ONE time, not the multiple times she did it, and usually for selfish reasons because she was pushy, not reckless.

    Cordelia wasn't 'tact gal' but she wasn't pushy like Kennedy when it came to romance, she didn't pursue somebody with the same level of insensitivity that Kennedy demonstrates time and again.

    And if you don't know somebody that well, then maybe don't go blundering around and poking at their past. Ken knew just enough about Willow's past to make pointed references to it several times but not enough to act in any way considerate.
     
    DeadlyDuo: Agreed.
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  4. Guy

    Guy Scooby

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    Black Thorn
    I never said that Kennedy was flawless. She was tactless and she didn't know Willow as well as she thought, and she ended up offending some people without meaning to. But I don't think that she ever meant to hurt Willow, and I don't think that she was like "I don't care that Willow's grieving, I want smoochies!" She knew the technical details of Willow's past, but she clearly didn't understand them entirely.

    Kennedy just made honest mistakes. And really, her mistakes with Willow were never anything major, IMO.
     
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  5. thetopher

    thetopher Member of the Church Of Faith

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    Sineya
    Well I don't think Kennedy was malicious. I too don't think she wanted to hurt Willow. But it does seem that Kennedy's priories are about what she wants/her feelings and her thoughts about Willow's are entirely secondary.
     
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  6. Guy

    Guy Scooby

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    Black Thorn
    It does come out that way sometimes... But I think that it's entirely unintentional on Kennedy's part too. She WANTS to put Willow first, but it's not really in her nature (see above re: rich spoiled brat), so she comes off as selfish and bratty, sometimes. That's how I read the character.

    And she eventually recognizes that character flaw, and learns and grows. In season 8 and beyond, Kennedy is very sympathetic.
     
  7. AnthonyCordova

    AnthonyCordova Apocalypse Engine

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    Sineya
    part of the problem with Kennedy might be a consequence of her age (i.e. lack of tact, immaturity, her selfishness, etc.). That would be an excuse I would be happy enough to throw her direction.

    lol, @Blaze is all kinds of pissed of right now (I know the feeling, what with Dawn and all).
     
  8. Blaze

    Blaze Let it Burn

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    Black Thorn
    haha Anthony, you should know me well enough to know that I always keep my cool :cool:

    I do wish people saw Kennedy more as I see her, but it's all a matter of personal opinion! Doesn't prevent me from trying to defend her though :p (and I share your opinion of Dawn, I love Dawn!)
     
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  9. DeadlyDuo

    DeadlyDuo Scooby

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    Here's a question: What could Kennedy have done to ender herself to the audience? ("Not turn up" and "get killed" can't be used as answers even though some of us are probably thinking it.)

    In my opinion, I would've probably liked Kennedy more if she'd been introduced earlier in the season and built up a friendship with Dawn, kind of taking on a big sister role since Buffy had to take on the "mom" role. By being introduced earlier, it means Kennedy's screen time could be spread out over the course of the season so although she'd be in more episodes, we would see her less in those episodes rather than her getting a bulk allocation of screen time. Kennedy could also do with an attitude readjustment so that she wasn't so stuck up. As for Killow, preferably it wouldn't be a thing, but if it did have to happen, I would rather Kennedy get to know Willow on friendly terms before taking a romantic interest instead of instantly putting the moves on her.
     
  10. Buffy Summers

    Buffy Summers Yataro Staff Member

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    Sineya
    If she hadn't so aggressively pursued Willow, and maybe if she had done something that resulted in her being awarded a more leadership role than the other potentials, so it would have seemed more deserved.
     
  11. thetopher

    thetopher Member of the Church Of Faith

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    Sineya
    Well that's the thing. When S7 was written the writers knew 'this is it' there were no comics in the foreseeable which to make a character 'more sympathetic'. They really only had the half season or so to build a character and a relationship. And they half-failed imo.

    Write Kennedy as a fully-realized character rather than as just a 'love interest' or 'the anti-Tara' (as Joss described her). Figure out her personality strengths and weakness first, establish them fully onscreen with everybody AND THEN have her hit on Willow.

    Also, have Willow reject Kennedy (instead of the reverse in 'Get It Done')- have Willow be the one reluctant to move on so seriously so quickly and have Kennedy back-off and offer the friend support that Willow needed at that time. Then have it develop more naturally from there.
    By the end of the season have Willow ready to move onto to somebody that she's already established a bond with- they've been through a war together and come out scarred but stronger.

    I always liked the idea of Willow somehow getting 'help' from Tara during the empowerment spell at the end, somehow her spirit keeping her grounded and- at the same time- banishing those lies that the First told about Tara in the afterlife. Willow gets some closure as she says her final goodbyes to her love, completes the spell and goes all 'White Willow, and then she's with Kennedy at the end.
    I don't dislike the idea of Willow/Kennedy- I'm not wedded to the whole 'Willow must never forget Tara!' *wail*- I just didn't like any of the execution, apart from maybe parts of 'The Killer In Me'.
     
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  12. DeadlyDuo

    DeadlyDuo Scooby

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    I agree with this. Also I think they should leave Killow ambiguous at the end so everybody wins, those that want it can imagine Killow got together whilst those that don't can say that Willow and Kennedy remained just friends.
     
  13. Buffy Summers

    Buffy Summers Yataro Staff Member

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    Sineya
    They should have had the whole season be build up, and in the last scene show Willow taking Kennedy's hand so you can see that she's able to move forward with her life.
     
    GwenRaiden: I would've liked that much more.
  14. Guy

    Guy Scooby

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    Black Thorn
    Kennedy's growth wasn't limited to season 8, it was there in season 7 too - she learns to apologize for her tactlessness, she recognizes her own brattiness, etc. It isn't the greatest arc, and she isn't my favorite character or anything, and it could have been better (I like most of your suggestions for how she could have been better), but what we DID get was good too. I never understood any of the Kennedy hate. She isn't the most compelling character, but she's fine - she's not boring, or cliched, or annoying, or unlikeable. I like Kennedy in season 7 about as much as I liked Tara in season 4.
     
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  15. thetopher

    thetopher Member of the Church Of Faith

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    Sineya
    She apologizes once to Buffy as I remember, but still keeps up with that lack of tact later when she mutinies against Buffy. It's Faith who has to knock her down a peg following all that entitlement crap she goes on about.
    And yes, she recognizes and entirely accepts that she's a brat. She tells Willow this in the last episode when she's 'comforting' Willow by saying that she'd be cranky if anything bad happened to her.
    It's more a...realization that character growth, since she doesn't get a chance to change her personality.

    I certainly agree with those first two. ;)
     
  16. Guy

    Guy Scooby

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    Black Thorn
    The apology to Buffy wasn't the end of her arc, it was just another step. Getting silenced by Faith was another step.

    Anyway - her realization IS part of a character arc. Not the best kind, and yeah it could have been more pronounced, but I still think it's there. Kennedy doesn't have a huge "now I'm not a brat anymore" moment in season 7, but she IS different at the end - she doesn't have any really bratty moments in the final 2 episodes, and I think that her "I'm kind of a brat" realization is a pretty nice bit of character growth. Not anything mindblowing, but perfectly decent storytelling. And I think that she didn't really need much more, because she was a relatively minor side-character - a supporting character for Willow, that gets Willow to move on from her grief and re-embrace her power. Kennedy serves her purpose in the story.
     
  17. LeeJones41

    LeeJones41 Townie

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    Rona had every right to bitch and moan, if she thought she had a feeling to do so. She did not have kiss Buffy's ass every waking moment for saving her life, especially since Buffy's tactics nearly got her killed and her arm broken down the road.

    The Watcher's Council, via Giles and Merrick, ensured that Buffy develop the skills to kill vampires and other demons. Was she expected to kiss their asses and remain blindingly loyal? I don't think so, considering how they used her as some kind of personal weapon and nearly got her killed. If Buffy wasn't expected to be rigidly loyal to the Watcher's Council, why on earth should Rona be loyal? She wasn't put on this show to be Buffy's sidekick.



    Considering Willow's habit of using her relationships to buffer her self-esteem, I suspect that she would have went off the rails if she had met Kennedy first and the latter got killed by Warren.


    Buffy was demanding that the Potentials put their lives on the line, as well. That's why she had insisted that they be trained.


    This sounds like a case of "what's good for the goose, is not good for the gander" so to speak. It was okay Buffy to rebel against or reject authority figures like Maggie Walsh or the Watcher's Council. But it wasn't okay for the Potentials to rebel against or reject Buffy, when she screwed up as an authority figure - especially since she was the series' main protagonist.
     
  18. The Bronze

    The Bronze Rogue Demon Hunter

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    Black Thorn
    Sure she has a right to bitch and moan, no one was actually going to tape her mouth shut. You asked why the hate though and this is why. Buffy has done more for Rona than anyone else has or was likely to do and yet she has nothing but negativity towards her. Here's a list of people Rona should be pissed off with before Buffy:
    The First
    Caleb
    Turok Han
    Vampires
    The Bringers
    6 billion other people doing less for her than Buffy
    Buffy wasn't being actively hunted. The Watchers came to Buffy because of what she had to offer, help in the fight against evil. Rona also came to Buffy because of what she had to offer, protection from The First.

    When Buffy had enough of the council she did her own thing and ceased dealing with them. When Rona was bitching at Buffy she still accepted her protection and hospitality, just treated her like garbage while taking advantage of her services. No one asked Rona to be a sidekick but if she didn't like her host she could have moved on and looked for a better one.
    Their lives were already on the line as they were being actively hunted. Buffy trained them to give them a better chance of survival. Most of them did survive which is a lot better than the girls we saw being gutted all over the world during Season 7.
    They could rebel all they like! They could pack their stuff and take their rebellion to any place on the planet that wasn't Buffy's house.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2016
  19. DeadlyDuo

    DeadlyDuo Scooby

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    In "Storyteller" Andrew has this line " You see, Kennedy pursued the reluctant Willow and won her heart" which kind of suggests Kennedy wore Willow down.
     
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  20. Carrie Hopewell

    Carrie Hopewell Little girl lost in the woods

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    Sineya
    To be fair, what would Andrew know about it? He snoops on people's lives and then pretends to know all about them. For example, in 'The Girl in Question' he tells Angel and Spike that Buffy loves both of them. How would he know that? He wasn't friends with Buffy at that point and Buffy herself probably wasn't 100% sure of who she loved. Andrew also implied that Buffy didn't trust Angel in 'Damage', but Buffy didn't even know about Dana according to the comics. And she most definitively was not in Rome (something Angel and Spike should have smelled). Andrew lies and twists the truth, you can't really use what he says as evidence.
     
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