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Is "She" the most pointless episode of the series?

Discussion in 'Season 1' started by Joshua, Mar 11, 2013.

  1. laianna

    laianna Potential

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    I just rewatched this episode for the first time in years... I didn't think it was that bad as an episode however it was totally bizarre how the ending seemed to imply that we'd see more of this world again when we never did. And seeing Angel "turned on" by the Bai Ling character honestly just made me uncomfortable. It seems so out of place and out of character for him.
     
  2. thetopher

    thetopher Member of the Church Of Faith

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    Sineya
    "She'" introduces the idea of portals between dimensions. That actually becomes pretty important later on- In Season 2 with Fred/Lorne, and in S3 with Holtz/Sahjahn/Connor. And Season 4 with Jasmine come to think of it.

    I don't remember liking the episode but it does add something to the mythos of the show.
     
  3. Taake

    Taake Tweedledee Staff Member

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    Black Thorn
    Wow, that's true. I never thought of that. I dislike the episode so much that I've kind of blocked most parts of it out of my memory or at least not considered them. That's a good point! That was the first time we saw that, no?
     
    thetopher: I think so. Portals anyway. Dimensions (hell ones) had already been mentioned on BtVS. :)
  4. Smile Time

    Smile Time The Scattered One

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    Sineya
    Anything with Angel dancing like a dork is not pointless in my book :p
     
  5. HisMrs

    HisMrs The Walking BED

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    Sineya
    Definitely not. When you get to "The Cautionary Tale of Numero Cinco", you'll see why. LOL
     
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  6. GwenRaiden

    GwenRaiden AKA Apology Girl

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    Black Thorn
    Have always found this episode so hard to watch. Like, I just put it on and keep myself busy with other things til it's over. It does nothing for me and seems so out of place. If they were going to go somewhere with the characters, fair enough. But they didn't.
    --- Double Post Merged, Jul 27, 2015, Original Post Date: Jul 27, 2015 ---
    Haha. Still. Would 100% rather watch The Cautionary Take of Numero Cinco than watch She.
     
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  7. Mr Trick

    Mr Trick Scooby

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    Yep! It really is and I think in future I will be skipping it on rewatches too.
     
  8. Samuel Reyes

    Samuel Reyes Chilling in SunnyD

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    Just because.

     
    Mr Trick: And because of the coffee scene at the end but sadly even those moments can't save it lol.
    Smile Time: And that's why this episode is not pointless :D
    gite63 and Smile Time like this.
  9. Ethan Reigns

    Ethan Reigns Scooby

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    Sineya
    With regard to the thread title. no, "She 1x13" addresses female genital mutilation, something that happens all to often in this world. If a female is prevented from feeling any sexual pleasure, she is less likely to commit adultery against the husband who owns her. This is a common practice in parts of Africa and the Middle East which corresponds to removal of the Ko in the story. There is nothing pointless about rejecting this practice and the validity of any culture that practices it.
     
  10. Mr Trick

    Mr Trick Scooby

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    Think you're missing the point. The people taking against this episode are not doing so because they don't understand what its about, or because they don't think that there is no plot, their taking against it because it was badly written and boring. As a result any message which the writers may have been aiming for got lost.
     
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  11. RomanticSoul

    RomanticSoul I AM GROOT

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    Well it's written by Marti Noxon. Epic fail guaranteed, especially when it comes to themes of sexuality.
     
  12. gite63

    gite63 Gone

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    Sineya
    There is one more good moment in this episode: when Angel is describing Manet's painting "La Musique aux Tuileries" at the museum - I like him showing his knowledge of art. And he implies that he (Angelus) was the inspiration for the poem "Le Vampire", by Baudelaire:

    The Vampire

    You who, like the stab of a knife,
    Entered my plaintive heart;
    You who, strong as a herd
    Of demons, came, ardent and adorned,
    To make your bed and your domain
    Of my humiliated mind
    — Infamous bitch to whom I'm bound
    Like the convict to his chain,
    Like the stubborn gambler to the game,
    Like the drunkard to his wine,
    Like the maggots to the corpse,
    — Accurst, accurst be you!
    I begged the swift poniard
    To gain for me my liberty,
    I asked perfidious poison
    To give aid to my cowardice.
    Alas! both poison and the knife
    Contemptuously said to me:
    "You do not deserve to be freed
    From your accursed slavery,
    Fool! — if from her domination
    Our efforts could deliver you,
    Your kisses would resuscitate
    The cadaver of your vampire!"

    — William Aggeler, The Flowers of Evil (Fresno, CA: Academy Library Guild, 1954)

    SOURCE: fleursdumal.org/poem/128
     
  13. bespangeled

    bespangeled Scooby

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    Black Thorn
    As I recall, Angel went through a portal to a hell dimension in Buffy, but I suppose if there were people who had never seen Buffy this would have introduced them to the existence in the B-verse.
     
  14. thetopher

    thetopher Member of the Church Of Faith

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    Sineya
    That was simply a one-way portal to a Hell dimension, a power that a demon possessed not a 'magical' portal where peoples travel between dimensions back and forth.
    There's a clear difference and that difference was explored mostly on Angel.
     
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  15. bespangeled

    bespangeled Scooby

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    Black Thorn
    Or at least hell dimensions are explored more!
     
  16. GwenRaiden

    GwenRaiden AKA Apology Girl

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    Black Thorn
    "She" is a hell dimension.
     
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  17. Mr Trick

    Mr Trick Scooby

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    I thought Greenwalt wrote it?
     
  18. Mr. Pole

    Mr. Pole Scooby

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    Black Thorn
    I guess I am the only one that liked She. And she was supposed to be a recurring character as well. This was meant as her introduction episode but there were problems with scheduling or something. I think today it's a more topical episode than it was at the time even. The thing I like about it the most (other than her back lighting up when sexually aroused, which BSG later borrowed) was the fact that it presented Angel as just a small piece in a much larger fight. You felt a real sense of world(s) building.

    Greenwalt's directing of the episode really kept the noir feel that was indicative of first season Angel even if the material he was working with was not the best.
     
  19. Athena

    Athena Tweedledum Staff Member

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    Black Thorn
    I didn't enjoy the episode, but I like Bai Ling. I always wondered why she never came back, they certainly seemed to set it up as her potentially being a reoccurring character.

    But yeah, as an episode it had nothing to add to the overall arc of AtS, although the premise had potential. It just fell completely flat.
     
  20. thetopher

    thetopher Member of the Church Of Faith

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    Sineya
    It was a Marti Noxon script. You can always tell from the metaphors that are really not.
     
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