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Is "She" the most pointless episode of the series?

Discussion in 'Season 1' started by Joshua, Mar 11, 2013.

  1. RomanticSoul

    RomanticSoul I AM GROOT

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    LMAO.

    Wait...are you being serious? It's a clear Noxon script, all her sexual male/female issues come out loud and clear. Greenwalt directed it. And I can't believe you thought Greenwalt would write crap like this. I think I need an acid bath now. Or something even more cleansing.
     
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  2. Mr. Pole

    Mr. Pole Scooby

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    Black Thorn
    They are metanots.
     
    RomanticSoul: Uh, I have to stash that word away for future use. Metanots.
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  3. Mr Trick

    Mr Trick Scooby

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    In fairness Greenwalt has written some crap in the past. I think on Angel he came into his own but even that took a bit of time. I think there are many issues with this episode not just on script level. Besides Greenwalt is credited as a writer too.
     
  4. RomanticSoul

    RomanticSoul I AM GROOT

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    True he shares writer credit. But it's so clear who wrote what in this episode. And he probably only did it because Noxon's original was even worse.
     
  5. Mr Trick

    Mr Trick Scooby

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    So are you not a Noxon fan in general? Certainly on Buffy she seems to have scripted some of the best episodes. Is it just when she writes on gender than you think she falls down?
     
  6. Dolores

    Dolores Professional sleeper

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    Ugh so glad they didn't keep her on as a love interest of Angel. I hated those scenes where they were supposed to be attracted to one another. They were wooden and awkward to watch.
     
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  7. Mr Trick

    Mr Trick Scooby

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    That was another big problem I had. She's actually a good actress, but yeah there was no spark between and DB, and the character was just so poorly written.

    Its an overall problem with the first season I think that they hint too often at Angel being interested in romance. Kind of defeats the purpose of his character and what he had with Buffy.
     
  8. RomanticSoul

    RomanticSoul I AM GROOT

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    I always make it clear I hate Marti 'chains&pain' Noxon. I don't credit her too much for her early Buffy episodes since Joss would go heavily over all scripts and the writers have stated that. For pure Marti watch this episode or post S4 Buffy and most of those are stinkers. Personally she should have taken her life story to a shrink instead of making us watch it.
     
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  9. Mr. Pole

    Mr. Pole Scooby

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    I think it was the genre though. I think she had a lot of trouble trying to write for a supernatural teen's show.
     
  10. Mr Trick

    Mr Trick Scooby

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    I think that's a dangrous road to go down though. If you take that point to the extreme then you might as well say than there were no good writers on Buffy besides Joss. The point of a good show runner is that he or she colbrates with people who share their vision, and so while adding their own imput still have an understanding of the universe which is consistent with the person whom created it.
     
  11. RomanticSoul

    RomanticSoul I AM GROOT

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    She had no trouble being in charge of a supernatural teen soap though. 'Party of Five With Monsters' also known as UPN!BtVS where it's whiny day every day and twice on Sunday.
     
  12. Mr. Pole

    Mr. Pole Scooby

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    I think she had a lot of problem with it, which is why tonally it was all over the place.
     
  13. RomanticSoul

    RomanticSoul I AM GROOT

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    Well I was being sarcastic. Because she was such a failure is why it turned into a soap. This is after all the woman who LAUGHED when people started hating on Buffy (the character) in S6.
     
  14. Mr. Pole

    Mr. Pole Scooby

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    Black Thorn
    I don't think it was a failure because of the "soapiness" of it. It failed because it was inconsistent. I think if she were allowed to really run the show as she wanted it would have been much better, but they wanted to maintain the teen drama so they handicapped her and half of the storylines feel as though its an adult show and the other half a teen show. It all suffers as a result.
     
  15. RomanticSoul

    RomanticSoul I AM GROOT

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    No one was stopping her from running the show like she wanted, except her own incompetence as an executive producer. If you ever watched the Panel Discussion on the DVDs I believe they specifically talked about S6. That Joss was running around with a graph showing his decreasing involvement. It sounded like all he did for months was wite OMWF. And we know shortly after he had to get started on Firefly. If you read back on interviews of the various writers during/after S6 it became clear that there was no firm hand with a coherent story. Just the fact alone that the writers all wrote Spike/Spuffy differently depending on their view shows that.
     
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  16. Mr. Pole

    Mr. Pole Scooby

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    Black Thorn
    That is incorrect. The network was stopping her as they still wanted to market it as a teen show. That is why there were so many 'funny' episodes between the more 'adult' ones.. and the 'adult' episodes contained a warning before they were aired.
     
  17. RomanticSoul

    RomanticSoul I AM GROOT

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    There was funny in S6, Tabula Rasa aside?

    What the network demands in terms of 'funny episodes' or whatever is not what I mean with incompetence. I'm talking about the storylines for the various characters and the characterization. That one is entirely up to the writers. And the showrunner is the one who should have the reins on that and be able to provide their writers with the basics to which they should adhere. Because if you don't you end up with one writer romanticizing abuse and another likening Spuffy shippers to people who write letters to prison inmates. And the writers write the characters to what they see as truth. And these two views on one relationship couldn't be more opposite.
     
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  18. Mr. Pole

    Mr. Pole Scooby

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    Black Thorn
    But it's not up to the writers. The show had just changed networks and the network said "this is what we expect" so they had to try to honor the wishes of the network while telling their own stories. They changed showrunners at the worst time, as the new showrunner wanted to change but the network bought Joss' vision.

    Life Serial
    Once More, with Feeling
    Tabula Rasa
    Doublemeat Palace
    Could all be considered the 'fun/funny' Buffy as they were more akin to the lighter early episodes. Even Older and Far Away could be considered a more fun episode. The story arc and the A plotlines were anything but traditional Buffy though.
     
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  19. bespangeled

    bespangeled Scooby

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    Black Thorn
    Buffy can move on but Angel can't - they even had Angel say it on the show. He has to hold the torch, which actually made no real sense and kinda gave the impression that he is forbidden to even have an orgasm so it's sex he can't risk. By the time he got to Nina it screamed casual sex on Angel's side, and Nina was the one with the torch.

    I think part of the problem is that DB is better with UST than raw animal sex. He doesn't do hot passion. There is nothing he does that is even remotely as hot as Wesley/Lilah. All of his encounters with females lack chemistry n Angel - Kate is another one.

    I'm not sure I would say She is the worst, but it is up there.
     
  20. Bluebird

    Bluebird two by two, hands of blue

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    Black Thorn
    I don't mind She that much, even though it's not a great episode. I adore season 1 of Angel but there are a couple of stinkers in there as it's finding its feet.
     
    Mr Trick: You mean like She right? Lets just be clear on that? haha...