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Joan And Randy

Discussion in 'Season 6' started by white avenger, Jul 28, 2017.

  1. Dora

    Dora Potential

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    Of coarse I am assuming the worst of Spike because simply he does not show any feelings for Buffy, When do we see him make sure she gets home safe from the DMP never ! once the sex thing starts when do we see them patrolling together we dont, all we ever see is Buffy working and fighting and Spike hanging around in his crypt , Smoking , drinking and not wearing his shirt . Take the evil trio for instant Spike knew about them where they were etc not once did he help Buffy with them , if every time he met Buffy say from work or help her patrolling instead of just pestering her for sex no doubt , they would have come up in conversation, Dawn told him about them did he go after them.... No....he did not care enough about Buffy to do anything
     
  2. Fool for Buffy

    Fool for Buffy "I wanna see how it ends"

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    Sineya
    That's just simply not true.
    IMG_4572.GIF
     
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  3. Dora

    Dora Potential

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    Buffy and Spike are under the influence of Magic and magic is used as a metaphor for Drugs in six .
    There was no come back on the evil Trio for the attempted gang rape and murder, Warren got his for killing Tara the other two were accessories, they would have all had raped if the Magic ( Drugs ) had carried on working , there was no come back for Spikes attempted rape on Buffy ,
    There is a very poor issues with consent though out six not only with Buffy saying No and don't but Spike applying alcohol to Anya he keeps filling her glass .
    As in my last post Angel left Buffy because he wanted Buffy to have a life in the light. Spike wanted Buffy to go into the dark with him , they could not do things together, Buffy would have had to give up every thing. The things you pointed out is what Spike wanted from Buffy.... he knew Buffy did not want them with him
     
  4. GraceK

    GraceK Grr Arrg

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    This is exceptionally unfair, and to be frank also untrue. I understand your hatred of Spike, your certainly entitled to dislike a character. What makes these boards so great is that there are a multitude of different viewpoints and opinions. I don't think it's fair though to create your own canon just to back up your dislike.

    First:: why would Spike need to make sure Bufffy gets home safe from work? She's the Slayer, she's stronger than him. She would most likely resent the idea of him following her home for protection.

    Second, Spike may know of the Trio, but his main connection to them is through Warren, and he has no idea they are targeting Buffy. Also, they are HUMAN, his chip prevents him from harming them anyway. Rest assured though if he knew they were harassing her he would most definitely tell her, and when he does find out she already knows anyway,,,what do you expect him to do?

    Third, he's not pestering her for sex. They are in a MUTUALLY sexual relationship, she seeks him out just as much. I don't know where you get this idea of a virginal innocent Buffy being pursued by the big bad wolf.

    They DO patrol together. After they start sleeping together, it stops because Most of the time whenever Spike tries to help her out she beats him up and tells him to get lost.

    And to say he shows no feeling for Buffy pretty much disregards 2 seasons of build up where Spikes whole character revolves around his love for her. He tells her constantly, he mourns her death, he protects Dawn and works with the scoobies all summer after she dies, he lets him self get tortured by Glory for her sake, I mean, what do feelings mean to you that you think Spike shows none?

    Yes, they had an extremely unhealthy, violent relationship in season 6, and Spikes actions in Seeing Red are abhorrent. No one is disputing that.

    But it's extremely insulting to Buffy herself to not only take away her agency but to make her out to be nothing but a notch on Spikes belt.
    --- Double Post Merged, Aug 1, 2017 ---
    What? That is a leap of epic proportions. Anya is grown demonic woman, she certainly is not in anyway being taken advantage of..she takes solace in him . Come on, to imply date rape to Spike in that scene is pure fanon. I don't mean to be rude but I think your hatred of Spike is bordering on extreme. I don't know how you can take a scene of 2 adults drinking together and blame Spike.Does Anya have no agency or will at all?
     
    flow: Thank you so much !
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2017
  5. Dora

    Dora Potential

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    Spike is crying for himself, he was obsessing over Buffy now she is gone , he lost her, we see in seeing red how much he really cared
     
  6. Hunga Munga

    Hunga Munga Potential

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    You shouldn't feed the troll . :)

    Dora hates Spike , season6 and 7 , Marti Noxon and don't seem too fond of Joss Whedon either . Most of his posts focus on this longrunning antipathy and seem designed to offend . Debating some of his more outlandish notions seems kinda pointless to me,especially in a lighthearted thread like this one (was) .
     
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  7. Fool for Buffy

    Fool for Buffy "I wanna see how it ends"

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    Sineya
    Feed the troll? I haven't heard that expression before. I'll call it adding gas to the flame. Anyway you are right, I'll restrain myself from debunking Spike hatred, especially in a positive thread. To add some lightheartedness back to this thread and it's topic:
    IMG_4574.JPG

    IMG_4573.JPG
     
  8. RomanticSoul

    RomanticSoul I AM GROOT

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    I honestly think it says more about the utterly despicable and crappy pro-Spike writing which almost seemed to be accidental than anything else. Nevermind the fact that it totally violates vampire mythology. But hey, anything to make Spike look good. *barf*

    Seriously? Just because someone feels strongly about something regarding the show, they are trolls? Are you also going to tell the hard core defenders, who constantly defend the same characters and ships, that they are trolls?

    A discussion board is for everyone. You don't like what someone has to say, ignore it. Just because it doesn't fit your opinion doesn't make someone a troll. And unless you are part of the BB staff, it's not your right to deem anyone anything.
     
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  9. Dora

    Dora Potential

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    You are probably right...I just dont see it, as in this thread they have had their minds altered with Magic , so apart from the parts I find funny I don't see love like most do calling it Joan and Randy
    I dont see a human good Spike , I see a evil selfish demon, who makes choices of being good and evil but alternately for his own selfish reasons , take instances I have mentioned recently, not meeting Buffy from work or patrolling with her , Why would he not ? was there not a whole episode where Buffy got staked by her own Stake and asked Spike how he had killed two slayers .....why could that not happen again ? Plying drink to Anya leading to sex , Anya offered it twice to Spike with a soul but both times he turned her down , Anya own words the old Spike would have her upside down and half way to happiness, and the main thing about the sex , Spike knew Buffy had a good chance of being mentally mixed up , he played on her making out she had come back wrong, this he found out when he thought his chip had stopped working and went out to kill again ? He cannot love Buffy and want to kill again !
    I can go on and on of what I see as abuse on Buffy , when she is struggling just to live I dont blame Spike he is a evil demon the Spike pre soul and after soul are two different animals , Spike with a soul would have help Buffy , Spike with a soul in love with Buffy would have met her from work ,
    Yes I blame JW for the demise of Buffy , Read both SMG and CC remarks on that JW was no longer in his office even I have read that ED would not carry on Buffy because JW would not be in Charge of Day to Day running,
    We have not had anything from JW about Buffy ( except comics which I think is just a cash cow for him ) yet a failure like Fireflop gets a film?
    The over the top sex in six was down to him , he knew Sarah did not like it , she has said both JW and MN had to talk her down several times .
    As for MN enough said feeding her EGO and the over use of Spike in seven
    Without six I think we could have had more Buffy , Sarah work load could have been reduced, certainly with ED coming back and the end of chosen opened up lots of possibilities...... see fan fiction
    I think JW and MN just got to clever.....and I am with JM Spike was evil and you dont want evil in your life
    We will not get along so I will not post as where you can see love . I only see Abuse , Remember what Buffy said...... because I stopped you something I should have done long ago ......In seven.... he can be a good man Giles ,
    I love BTVS which was not the last two seasons.....
    --- Double Post Merged, Aug 1, 2017 ---
    And as for Spuffy's threatening to kill Sarah when she congratulates DB on his birthday you think I am mixed up
     
  10. Fool for Buffy

    Fool for Buffy "I wanna see how it ends"

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    Sineya
    What are you talking about? I seriously doubt this happened.
    Arguing about something or defending a character is one thing. But twisting every action into the worst deed possible and trying to prove that Joss supports abuse and rape is pretty over the top.
    Yes a discussion board is for everyone. But this thread is about Joan and Randy. It was just unnecessary to turn it into another Spike hate thread:rolleyes:
    As for your opinion of the poor pro-Spike writing, his entire character is a defiance of Vampire mythology. So when Spike loses his memory the writers kept that in mind and made his self-created character reflect that.
     
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  11. white avenger

    white avenger white avenger

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    I think that Spike was depicted that way during that time to add to the image of him being Buffy's dirty little secret, that she had no real use for him beyond physical relief, and that he had no real place in what was then the "normal" part of her life. There was the Buffy that all of her friends saw, and there was the Buffy who was having sex with Spike. Keeping them separate helped enforce that image.
     
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  12. Athena

    Athena Belinda Staff Member

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    Black Thorn
    This is a thread about the characters Joan and Randy from Tabula Rasa. They're not Spike and Buffy, they're Joan and Randy, so please keep to the topic of Joan and Randy only.
     
  13. Dora

    Dora Potential

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    Fool for Buffy...listen to the twentieth EW interviews Sarah says she gets death threats I was shocked but I had read before about her receiving threats when she congratulates DB on his birthday..... I just could not believe people would go that far for a make believe character ,
    As for Joan and Randy I already said It was magic ( drug ) induced to wipe their memories so it was not real so I don't see how it counts...... is it so wrong to me to think Giles and Anya .........love the loan shark head
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2017
  14. DeadlyDuo

    DeadlyDuo Scooby

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    [​IMG]
     
    GraceK: :)
  15. TriBel

    TriBel Potential

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    Female doorman -where - The Bronze? I imagine her opportunities were limited. I'm guessing teaching martial arts requires certification of some description. She'd already decided she didn't want to work at the Magic Box. He may have stopped being her Watcher but he, Spike and the Scoobies were still performing her duties. As it is, I tend to agree, his was a selfish act - but this makes Spike's desire to keep her company look even more humane. Magic = Drugs is a false analogy. It's the addiction that's a problem. In addition, what's the difference between drugs and medicine? Opiates for instance can ease suffering and pain but also cause suffering and pain if used for the wrong reason. And, why do people turn to drugs - because they're fundamentally deviant or stupid or is it a cry for help? Tabula Rasa was not simply about Willow's use of magic but also raised important questions about whether identity is essential or socially constructed. Please point me to where Whedon condones rape. "Dead Thing" is a problematic term that needs careful unpacking. What do we mean by dead? What do we mean by thing? For instance, according to Marx capitalism and the division of labour alienates people from their true potential and turns people into things. For many theorists post-Saussure, language itself does something similar. Death can signify as both biological or real death and death in the symbolic. In terms of the latter, Buffy staked Spike over and over again - it was the inverse of his "every night I save you".

    I fully acknowledge Spike is a demon in the same way I acknowledge Peter Sutcliffe, Ian Brady, Adolf Eichmann, and Ted Bundy were human. What else does Spike want Buffy for? For friendship and companionship? For someone to share a bottle of wine with at night? For someone to discuss the soaps? He did all this with Drusilla, with Dawn, with Joyce, with Clem - there's no evidence he wouldn't do it with Buffy. In fact, his biggest desire wasn't for her but for her to acknowledge their relationship - to come out to her friends. Personally, I like to think he'd watch reruns of Cantona's glory days at Old Trafford. :) Buffy is part demon - I'd be careful with the light/dark analogy. There's an argument that suggests the myth of the Enlightenment and the logic of the Age of Reason fed directly into the Holocaust (please don't take issue with me on this - I think the argument is Adorno's but I can't remember which text - probably Dialectic of Enlightenment - I haven't read it all, I find it difficult)."The [only?] thing better than killing a slayer is to f... [one?]. Machismo? That aside, have you ever stopped to consider some of the terms used to describe intercourse? It's often explicitly linked to violence. In addition, historically there's been a strong correlation between death and sex - La petite mort is a phrase that refers to orgasm.

    I appreciate you have strong feelings on this - shall we just agree to differ? :)
     
  16. white avenger

    white avenger white avenger

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    This pretty much says what I said in the first place. With Joan and Randy, there were no memories of Drusilla or Angel, no memories of being enemies, no memories of the mutual threat that Buffy and Spike had for each other. It was a totally fresh start, and the attraction and trust that they felt for each other was new, fresh, and honest.
     
  17. Mylie

    Mylie Scooby

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    I disagree. I think it says a lot about how Spike sees himself. He definitely wants to be seen as good and noble. But I don't think is says anything about who he is. Only his actions can do that.
     
    GraceK: That's a good point. I have to say I never thought of it that way :)
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  18. Dora

    Dora Potential

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    But you see this is why Spike is so bad unlike Angelus who is totally evil Spike chooses to be evil , its the same vampire that is holding Buffy hands in Bargaining that is trying to kill the girl in Smashed , its the same vampire that looked after Dawn who tried to rape Buffy
    Spike chose to be bad , Killing the couple in the Bronze with Dru, Sexually using Buffy all choices Spike makes! when we see all the time Spike is very capable of making the right choice....
    For some reason Spike turns up in the magic box dressed as William maybe that had some barring on is behaviour !
    Back to the Magic Vs Drugs thing I have read on here and other places that Willow raped Tara mind so she would forget their falling out , as its Joan and Randy nobody is appalled that they have their minds played with or raped its all ....... OH how lovely Spuffy under another name
     
  19. RomanticSoul

    RomanticSoul I AM GROOT

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    It's no different than 'Something Blue'. I don't see what the characters not being themselves has to do with the actual, real characters. As if not being themselves somehow proves anything about the real people that they are. It doesn't. And it's icky because it removes free will from their actions. Whether it's Mr. & Mrs. Blood in SB or Randy & Joan, these are not the real people. Their actions and characters have no relation to the real people.

    And ignoring what a vampire (and it's basic instincts) is, just for shipping nonsense, I call foul. As I do with Randy.

    'We shouldn't demonize rapists'. That was Whedon's defense for prioritizing Spike's story over Buffy's post attempted rape. If that's not support for rapists while dismissing the victim then what the hell was that comment supposed to be?
     
  20. Athena

    Athena Belinda Staff Member

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    Black Thorn
    Can we keep the talk of the AR off this thread? There was no AR between Joan and Randy. This thread is about Joan and Randy.