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Most overrated episode of Angel?

Discussion in 'Inside Out' started by Bluebird, Mar 8, 2016.

  1. Monkey Pants

    Monkey Pants Bored Now

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    Black Thorn
    I also agree with Waiting in the Wings. I just rewatched it and I don't really like it. Cordy/Angel, Wesley/Fred/Gunn...blah. I find it boring.
     
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  2. RomanticSoul

    RomanticSoul I AM GROOT

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    They did know they were cancelled months before shooting wrapped. Thanks to both the WB and Joss.

    I go with Waiting In The Wings, Birthday and Hole In The World as some of the most overrated. I generally don't like any Joss Whedon written eps on AtS. Which also explains my meh-ness in regards to S5. Keep Joss away from anything to do with Angel and AtS. Makes for a better show.

    I don't mind I Will Remember You much mainly because Angel finally gets it that he's meant for more than Buffy-cuddles. There is a whole world of bad out there that could need his help. And he choses that over the girl. The only thing about IWRY that bugs is the weird placement.
     
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  3. Mr Trick

    Mr Trick Scooby

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    Speaking of Joss related episodes which I don't rate, Untouched would be one. To be fair I'm not sure if the episode not working has anything to do with his directing. I didn't like the actress playing the girl in it, and it was a poorlywritten role. It just sucked the life out of the episode.

    IWRY is overrated for me, but does have good points. I think either Birthday or Dad in season 3 too, but need to rewatch them. The Ring too
     
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  4. Bluebird

    Bluebird two by two, hands of blue

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    Black Thorn
    It was directed by Joss but written by Mere Smith. I did find it a bit odd he directed an episode he didn't write, as is usually the case.

    Oh you are definitely remembering correctly with Dad, that's one I want to skip when I'm watching, it's so embarrassing watching Angel make baby talk with Connor. That was about as much as I could stand of that stuff so once he was whisked away to a hell dimension I was just glad DB's baby talk was over.

    Although tbh I don't think anyone loves that episode so it was never well rated :D
     
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  5. Mr Trick

    Mr Trick Scooby

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    I think its one where the novelty of Angel doing the Dad thing either appeals on a surreal so cheesy its funny level, or just starts to grate after awhile:)
     
    Fuffy Baith: It appeals to me! I find it cute
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  6. Bluebird

    Bluebird two by two, hands of blue

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    Black Thorn
    Yeah, I don't have a problem with him being a dad, but that episode felt lower in quality. But in typical AtS fashion the happy Angel didn't last long! I love the show for that. Hey you had a son, oh too bad he's gone after a few episodes. The audacity of taking his baby away from him in such a horrible way was exciting.
     
  7. Mr Trick

    Mr Trick Scooby

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    True, but I think it was just for logic reasons rather than making a statement. I just wish he had stayed gone. Teenage Connor was far more annoying:eek:
     
  8. vellavu

    vellavu Scooby

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    Black Thorn
    The montage in Not Fade Away has a visible Godfather vibe in it. It ruined the tension for me because instead of being grabbed, I found it kinda hilarious.

    And yeah, that Breaking Bad assassination montage also made me giggle.
     
  9. Carrie Hopewell

    Carrie Hopewell Scooby

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    Sineya
    There are only two episodes of Angel I haven't seen: Waiting in The Wings and Couplet. Look...I'm weak, I've never been anything else :p. As soon as I saw Angel in a tuxedo (that looks exactly like the one he wore to The Prom) and heard Lorne talking to him about cheerleaders...I was out of there. Couldn't go through with the episode. I braved through so many Cangel-y episodes (I'm not very bothered by most of it, it's the badness of the writing that mostly upsets me), but not that one. Also, I saw some clips of Angel and Cordelia kissing, Gunn and Fred kissing, Gunn and Wes trying to get Fred to hold their hands (gross) and heard that Groo makes an appearance...nothing about that makes me want to watch the episode. And I don't like ballet.

    As for overrated episodes:

    Season 1 is very much an underrated season. Certain episodes like Somnambulist, The Prodigal and Blind Date are brilliant but unappreciated, and others like The Ring, Sense and Sensitivity, I've Got You Under My Skin are great and needlessly hated.
    IWRY - not exactly overrated in my opinion. I think those last 10 minutes are an emotional punch and I love Angel's vulnerability, which I feel is missing in the later seasons. However, the episode is not, at all, the best Angel episode and it's heavily flawed. The pacing of the episode is all wrong and some scenes with Buffy are uncomfortable. Therefore, in a way it is overrated, but it's also an episode people criticize a lot, so I don't think it gets too much praise.
    Sanctuary - I don't like Buffy/Faith and I didn't like Buffy/Angel/Faith either. How convenient of Angel to be half naked and holding Faith when Buffy gets there... I didn't care for the rooftop scene or for any of Buffy's scenes. The best parts of the episode were the initial Angel/Faith scenes and how Wes didn't betray Angel.

    Season 2 is not very over or underrated. Perhaps a bit underrated, in particular some episodes like Judgment, Blood Money and Happy Anniversary, which I find great, and magnificent episodes like AYNOHYEB and Reprise/Epiphany that never receive as much praise as they should compared to the likes of AHITW/Shells and You're Welcome. Still, two episodes of that season, at the very least, are too highly praised:
    Dear Boy - an illogical, messy episode. Wes and Cordy are afraid Angel is going to loose his soul because he's too...unhappy?
    The Trial - didn't notice it the first time, but this episode is painfully soapy.

    Season 3 is overrated as a whole, and not so much in terms of individual episodes. Still:
    Fredless - boring
    Birthday - absurd. Sure, Angel can handle the memories of killing hundreds of people for over 100 years and of living in a hell dimension for 100 years too, but visions of people in pain? No, that's just too much...
    Sleep Tight - some parts (mainly involving Wes) are confusing.

    Season 4 is massively underrated (Home is one of the best episodes ever and people don't care much for it), but these episodes are a bit overrated:
    Spin The Bottle - it's pretty fun, but the Cangel stuff drags it down a lot. It's a great, but unremarkable episode.
    Awakening - the writers came up with a pretty lame fantasy for Angel and the episode doesn't reveal much about the character that I didn't already know.
    Orpheus - as much as I love all the Faith/Angel scenes and Willow's cameo, some of the Angelus/Angel scenes are silly and Cordelia ruins the episode a bit. Fantastic episode, just not one of the absolute best. It's probably one of Faith's best episodes though.

    Most of season 5 (as a whole and episode by episode):
    Destiny - Spike and Angel bring out the worst in each other. They are unbearable together. This episode is misogynistic and tedious.
    Damage - I didn't care one bit for Dana or for Spike's 'woo is me' moment. Andrew speaking for Buffy and taking Dana away from Angel, because he's better equipped to deal with her pisses me off. Who is the only person that successfully handled a rogue slayer? Not Giles for sure.
    You're Welcome - great, but not brilliant. There's some bad dialogue and too little Cordelia/anyone besides Angel scenes. Spike gets more scenes with Cordy than Lorne, Fred and Gunn! Also, Cordelia spends the whole time helping Angel become a hero instead of being a hero herself.
    Smile Time - not a funny episode. The 'You're a bloody puppet" scene didn't make me laugh once. The episode is cute and playful, with some nice character moments, but not one of the show's best or funniest episodes by far.
    A Hole in The World - definitely not the show's best episode like some people claim.
     
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  10. Guy

    Guy Scooby

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    Black Thorn
    Oh, come on, you have to watch it at least ONCE :)

    It'll be fun! You can play a drinking game or something. Drink anytime Cangel make you wanna vomit :)
    Or drink anytime you hate love triangles :p
     
  11. Carrie Hopewell

    Carrie Hopewell Scooby

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    Sineya
    Maybe one day... For now, I'll happily live in ignorance (kind of, I've seen gifs from that episode).

    Lol :D I don't drink alcohol, so a drinking game would be fruitless :p I wouldn't get drunk...
     
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  12. Guy

    Guy Scooby

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    Black Thorn
    [​IMG]

    Alternatively, you can just roll your eyes whenever these things happen. Eye-rolls can be surprisingly satisfying.
    --- Double Post Merged, Oct 4, 2016 ---
    Back on topic: Overrated episodes of Angel?

    - Epiphany: I love the philosophical ideas of the episode, but as a STORY, it's pretty mediocre. The villains are lame as hell, Cordy gets ANOTHER mystical pregnancy, the fake-out in the beginning of the episode is really contrived (there's no logical reason for Angel to act like he lost his soul, and yet he does, so that the audience will be fooled), David Boreanaz' delivery of the big monologue at the end ("If nothing we do matters, then all that atters is what we do") is very flat (he doesn't sound calm and reflective, he sounds like he's bored!) and the entire thing is just too CHEERY and lighthearted for such a thematically important episode. Great ideas, weak execution. I also despise the fact that this was CLEARLY meant to be the season finale, and yet wasn't.

    - Sanctuary: The Faith stuff is great, but the Buffy-Angel melodrama feels really out-of-place, and Buffy seems really stupid, emotional, and out-of-character. It's like Joss wanted to make Buffy look bad, so that Angel will look good by comparison. I really hate that.

    - Not Fade Away: There's a lot to like here... But Angel's plan makes zero sense, and it makes it really hard for me to root for these guys.

    - Soulless: Apparently a lot of people like Angelus here, but he always seemed really out-of-character and lame to me, in this season. ANGELUS IS NOT HANNIBAL LECTER! He never was before, and he shouldn't be now! Angelus is a simple bully, a sadistic jock, not a complex monster with a code. He's Ramsey Snow, not Roose Bolton. And David Boreanaz is really BAD at being Hannibal Lecter. His evil laugh at the end of 4x10 is fake as hell, and his attempts at subtlety in this episode are awful. And then he gets out of prison, and becomes more like the Joker, and the whole thing starts making even less sense... Ugh.

    - Are You Now or Have You Ever Been: It's an okay episode, but people talk about it like it's the second coming. The only thing that really stands out here is the attempt to capture a film-noir vibe, which IS successful, but what's so impressive about that? If I wanna see a Noir movie, I'll watch one. I go to the Buffyverse to watch more subversive, modern, complex things... Also, the fact that this is a very Angel-centric episode is NOT a plus, to me.

    - Redefinition: The Cordy-Wes-Gunn-Lorne parts are great, and the Darla-Drusilla parts are great, but Angel's "I'm Batman" act is completely cliched, and unconvincing, and lame.

    - Damage: I love the stuff with Dana and Andrew, but I hate the fact that this episode is completely devoted to making Spike more like Angel.
     
    Carrie Hopewell: Oh, don't worry, I roll my eyes plenty! ;)
    thetopher: Wow, disagree with all of these pretty strongly. ;)
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  13. Mylie

    Mylie Potential

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    A Hole In the World is that one episode that was so critically acclaimed and I was really excited to see during my rewatch but when the time came, I was uncomfortable through pretty much all of it. Everything felt incredibly forced and melodramatic and I hated seeing the only female character left on the show die so helplessly while having all the male characters around her try to save her. I came out of that rewatch feeling cheated because I was expecting something great, especially given that the episode was written by Whedon. But it kind of made me realize that Whedon's writing on AtS is far from being my favorite, like it is on BtVS.
     
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  14. Guy

    Guy Scooby

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    Black Thorn
    I've seen a lot of people with this opinion, and I just can't grasp this...

    To me, this episode is like 'The Body' - it's just an incredibly profound exploration of death, and there's something disturbingly REAL about it. "Why can't I stay?" is up there with "And no one will explain to me WHY", when it comes to the ability to reduce me to a puddle of tears on the floor. But if 'The Body' was about the things that happen AFTER death, 'A Hole in the World' is about the things that happen before. Amy Acker's acting is HORRIFYING (in the best way) as Fred slowly dies, and the way everything slowly falls apart is just SO powerfully tragic... To me, the melodrama feels completely earned. I always start crying when Fred can't remember who Fiegenbaum is, and I don't stop until the end of the episode.
     
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  15. Mylie

    Mylie Potential

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    I love the scene between Fred and Wesley at the end and the cavemen vs. astronauts thing but the rest of it just feels forced and manipulative to me. I just find Shells far superior to it and more poignant.
     
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  16. Cherchezlafemme

    Cherchezlafemme Townie

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    Waiting in the Wings.

    It's only hyped because Joss wrote it, because it's not all that remarkable to me.
     
  17. Guy

    Guy Scooby

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    Black Thorn
    Of course it's manipulative. It successfully manipulates me into crying my eyes out, every single time.:)

    It's interesting, because to me 'Shells' always felt inferior. At some point it kinda devolves into a group of people saying "she's gone" over and over again. AHITW was just much more creative and polished, IMO. Even the Gunn parts are fantastic - that moment when he realizes he's guilty for Fred's death, and bashes Knox on the head, is SO powerful. Comparing 'AHITW' and 'Shells' is kinda like comparing 'The Body' and 'Forever' - 'The Body'/'AHITW' is like an explosion of creativity and drama, and 'Forever'/'Shells' is just living off the leftovers of the drama of the previous episode. It isn't bad, of course, but it does pale in comparison.

    I did love the montage at the end of 'Shells', though. 'A Place called Home' is up there with 'Full of Grace' for beautifully depressing ending songs.

    But it's all a matter of personal taste, of course.

    [​IMG]
     
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  18. Mr Trick

    Mr Trick Scooby

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    Maybe so, but then some would say that's why he's such a unique director/writer. To menage many different elements like Whedon does in that episode, and that still to make it a smooth, compact 42 mins is part of his grace.
     
  19. Cherchezlafemme

    Cherchezlafemme Townie

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    I suppose. Joss writing for Angel never impressed me because he didn't get the show. The tone was always off in the episodes he wrote/directed IMO.
     
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  20. Mr Trick

    Mr Trick Scooby

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    I don't think that's it. I mean look at Dollhouse that's a very dark show and Joss was the main brain child behind that. I think the issue with Joss and Angel was that for a lot of it he was juggling Buffy, and for part of it Firefly too. I still think that Waiting in the Wings stands up as one of the best Angel episodes.
     
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