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Once More, with Podcast Episode 3: Is This a Penis Metaphor?

Discussion in 'Buffy-Boards News' started by Athena, Oct 1, 2016.

  1. Athena

    Athena Tweedledum Staff Member

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    Black Thorn
    To be honest, it's really hard to discuss an episode out of context with the rest of the season/series, because you can only base your opinions on what you see before you. I personally saw no build up to Xander's exclusion from the group, which is why to me it felt inorganic to just suddenly have this thrust upon us.

    Had I watched The Zeppo after watching the other twelve episodes in Season 3, I might feel otherwise, but we have to discuss the episode as a snapshot of time and by its own merits (unless we were comparing it to another Xander ep for example) :)
     
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  2. Taake

    Taake Tweedledee Staff Member

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    Black Thorn
    I accept this as your official announcement of defeat. I.e. I was right, you were wrong :p
     
  3. Athena

    Athena Tweedledum Staff Member

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    Black Thorn
    Ok, I admit. I was right. You were wrong. :p
     
  4. Ethan Reigns

    Ethan Reigns Scooby

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    Sineya
    Are you two going to continue this argument for this whole thread? We need a moderator! Oh, wait a minute...
     
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  5. GwenRaiden

    GwenRaiden AKA Apology Girl

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    Black Thorn
    LOLs at Buffy barking in the background. :D
     
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  6. Mr. Pole

    Mr. Pole Scooby

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    Black Thorn
    That reminds me of that scene in Scrooged when Bill Murray learns there is a spot that makes a woman bark like a dog.
     
  7. Taake

    Taake Tweedledee Staff Member

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    Black Thorn
    Yeah, that was actually Buffy Summers barking her love for The Zeppo and agreeing with me. True story. :D
     
  8. Riderofapocalypse

    Riderofapocalypse Potential

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    great podcast again!

    Personally, i think Zeppo did a fantastic job illustrating Xander's life as the 'normal' guy in the 'super human' group. And it was nice to see Xander gaining confidence, knowing what he did. And ...well Faith sex. I don't think i was cheering for Xander more than i have in that episode.

    Early Xander, yeah he is annoying as he is funny. Trying to be the macho man (I can relate to a degree. But so many times i'm like...Dude, sit the F back down and let the Buffy win. Go get her yogurt or mac on Willow or something!).
    Season 4 Xander and on...loved his character transformation. Him not Marrying Anya, yeah, stupid, but still a good representation of how an average Joe live his life next to Buffy.
     
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  9. Guy

    Guy Scooby

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    Black Thorn
    Buffy is the one who pushed for Xander to be excluded from the fight, and the others just did what she said. And Buffy did that MANY times before:

    'Welcome to the Hellmouth':

    'When She Was Bad':

    'Becoming':

    Sure, Buffy usually did the "I'm alone in this" act toward ALL the scoobies before, but the rest of the scoobies got powers over time - Willow got witchy, Giles got less stuffy, Angel got more useful and less "I'm afraid", etc. So, yeah, there was precedent for Buffy telling Xander to go away so he wouldn't get hurt.

    Fine, there are other examples. How about the way Xander was a total dick about Angel in the first half of season 3, and yet grew to tolerate him and work with him in the second half? In the end of 'Graduation Day', for example, Xander even tells Buffy that Angel survived the battle, even without being asked, just because he knew it'd make her feel better. Xander would have never done that in 3x01.

    See above.

    He'll be hearing from me! :mad:


    I think it's intentionally terrible :) It shows foot-in-mouth Xander at his foot-in-mouth-est.


    I was being kinda hyperbolic there, yeah.
     
  10. Athena

    Athena Tweedledum Staff Member

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    Black Thorn
    Buffy did, on occasion, try to exclude Xander from the fight to protect him, but not at any point in the run up to this episode.... :) That's why it felt inorganic to me. It was a bit 'all of a sudden'.
     
  11. Guy

    Guy Scooby

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    Black Thorn
    That's true. I guess it works for me because it just makes sense - Xander really has no reason to be in the fights, logically. He doesn't have superpowers like Buffy and Faith and Angel, and he doesn't have any special skills like Willow and Giles. There's no reason to risk his life like that, so, Buffy is just being reasonable when she tells him to stay away.

    Also, the episode begins with Xander getting seriously hurt during a fight, while the rest of the scoobies do better than him, so there's a clear reason why Buffy brings it up all of a sudden.
     
  12. Priceless

    Priceless Mad Brilliant

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    By the end of S3 Xander is 'key guy' and Buffy has rallied the whole school to fight the mayor, so even if she wanted to protect those without powers she changed her mind
     
  13. Guy

    Guy Scooby

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    Black Thorn
    Yes, absolutely. That's a big part of her arc in season 3 - going from isolation (being completely alone in L.A in 'Anne) to community (getting the Class Protector award, leading the entire school in battle).
     
  14. Carrie Hopewell

    Carrie Hopewell Scooby

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    Sineya
    Frankly, I always saw the episode as a comedy (duh, it's obviously a comedy :D). What I mean is: the episode is hyperbolic. Xander may have never been that blatantly excluded from the group, but he always felt useless and the episode tries to highlight his feelings, as opposed to the truth. We are seeing everything from his perspective and considering the intent of the episode (character progression) taking those insecurities to the extreme was the best way to do it. Everything need to go wrong for Xander at once. Also, it's a comedy. It's not really about Xander's exclusion being organic, but rather going with the concept and accepting that it's an exaggeration. I think the tone of the episode suggests that.