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Questions in Buffy love life in season 8

Discussion in 'Season 8' started by RogueDemonHunter, May 1, 2012.

  1. thetopher

    thetopher Member of the Church Of Faith

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    Sineya
    The thing is it's people who say 'oh, Buffy would never sleep with a girl' who react so fiercley. 'But she not gay!' they cry, therefore it's 'out of character'.
    They, for some reason, feel threatened by it somehow. Why Buffy's sexual orientation matters to them so strongly, I don't know. But it mostly comes from Bangel/Spuffy people. :p

    I've never seen a Satsu/Buffy fan deride Buffy's other relationships in that way, they just insist that Buffy found 'love/just/passion' with the person not the gender. :)

    And also, although Buffy did say to Satsu she couldn't be with her, they then go on to have sex, again. (Again, Buffy says its 'one of the best nights of my life'- just like she told Spike after 'Touched'- and I've probably enraged some Spuffy fan somewhere...:rolleyes:)

    The thing is, what Buffy does happens in real-life all the time, people experiment at school or in college and they move on, satisfied, never to repeat the experience. Or sometimes people in a committed relationship leave their partner for a member of the same sex because they discovered something new about themselves and have fallen in love.
    We don't know which applies in this case (but its probably the former) 'cause the only people Buffy shows interest in after this are Angel (god-fraking :rolleyes:) and Spike (day-dreaming :(). I'll wait till she falls for someone new before I decide which it was.

    P.S- Detective Can't Remember His Name (S9) doesn't count. He's shown interest in her but I don't think she's returned the interest yet.
     
    Robb Stark: I agree with everything here. I think you missed the point of my last post you commented on.
  2. EVIL UU

    EVIL UU Scooby

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    [MENTION=11975]Robb Stark[/MENTION]
    And how does that make her fling with Satsu out of character? I honestly don't get it.
     
    Robb Stark: It's not out of character.
  3. AndrewCrossett

    AndrewCrossett Satsu Otaku

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    Sineya
    "Unexpected" is not the same as "out of character."

    Characters do unexpected things. That's what makes stories interesting.
     
    thetopher: Totally agree. If anything Buffy sleeping with Spike was out of character.
  4. Blaze

    Blaze Let it Burn

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    Black Thorn
    You hit the nail on the head with " it mostly comes from Bangel/Spuffy people". I think that in 90% of the case, people are in denial not because they are homophobic or because they can't accept it, but because they are so in love with their ship and they don't want Buffy with someone else. I think only a minority (that is nonetheless present) is bothered by it because Satsu is a girl. You don't have to look far to realize that most people hate whoever Buffy is with unless it's Angel or Spike, just look at Riley (I actually think that Satsu has a bigger fanbase than Riley).

    That being said, I also agree with [MENTION=11975]Robb Stark[/MENTION]. Labelling Buffy at this point is useless. See, I think that Buffy was always a bit gay (with Faith), I also think that Buffy is straight, so the last thing I'll try to do is label her because she doesn't really fit any labels. And just because someone might think that she's straight even with her affair with Satsu doesn't mean that they have a problem with her having slept with a girl. It just means that they think she's straight, and because of the majority of her history on the show and the comic, this is a valid opinion, even if I don't fully agree.

    [MENTION=11194]EVIL UU[/MENTION], I completely agree, this was not out of character at all. We had hints as early as s3. Plus, in today's society, it shouldn't come as a surprise if a girl decides to have sex with another girl if it's convenient for both of them.
     
  5. Vorchan

    Vorchan Townie

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    Sineya
    UMMM, Ma'am, Buffy and Faith's bond is much more that of sisters than lovers in my eyes, how did you reach the conclusion that Buffy is in any way sexually attracted to Faith?
    About 11194, if that is the norm of today's society- I would be alarmed and rather proud to be 'old-school' to say the least regarding behavior- at least with public morality: knowing what belongs in marital relationships and what doesn't belong there (or anywhere).
    If this is the general trajectory society is going in- it spooks me big time!
    One turn-off that this series had for me was the indeciency in it innitially, I only started liking it when I found it funny (the episode Phases, I think).
    Sorry for deviating so much from the trajectory.
    The authors seem to say that the heroine has a problem with lust to say the least (interviews and such)... no wonder she was 'tapped' for this kind of a fight- she would need a calling.- sorry again.:eek:
     
  6. Blaze

    Blaze Let it Burn

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    Black Thorn
    I believe that it's Eliza that said in an interview that she was playing with the sexual tension between Buffy and Faith. She did it on purpose so that we'd see that.

    I never said that they were lovers, but the sexual tension was there in my opinion.
     
  7. thetopher

    thetopher Member of the Church Of Faith

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    Sineya
    It's in the scripts as well- Buffy and Faith would've had the first girl/girl kiss of the series if it hadn't been for the WB. (In 'Enemies' Faith wasn't supposed to kiss Buffy on her forehead...)
    The tension between them becomes a lot more obvious after Faith goes bad (although about half of 'Bad Girls' is seduction so...)
    'Enemies' and the 'Graduation Day' dream sequence in particular spring to mind.

    Also Faith's speech in 'This Year's Girl' is so 'angry ex', the subtext rapidly becomes the text...:)
     
    crazysoulless likes this.
  8. Blaze

    Blaze Let it Burn

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    Black Thorn
    I actually never knew that. Dam you WB for not making this happen! The Fuffy shipper in me just got a bit mad there.
     
    thetopher: I know! Damn the WB. Fuffy shippers would be all over the place otherwise!
  9. omnimercurial

    omnimercurial The Glove of Myghennon is my Oven Mitt!

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    Going back to the Bank Robbery thing....

    All that Equipment, Weapons and Facilities, safehouses etc cost Money.
    Just look back to the days of the Russian Civil War when Communists robbed Banks to secure the funding to beat the Whites who were committing atrocities against Civillians and Scorched Earth Tactics.

    The Key to Any War covert or overt is usually always a combination of Logistics and Tactics.

    Hell considering how Anti Commie most Americans are just look to your own American Civil War or the War for Independence.

    Funding via Asset Seizure eg "looting" occured in both Wars both against the Crown and the South.

    Besides look at it this way, are you really going to feel bad for the Faceless Banks who regularly commit massive fraud, Market Manipulation, Mass Job Losses, Foreclosures on peoples homes, Exorbitant Lobbying to influence and Manipulate Govt Policy and Law and causing Economic Crises like the one we are still living through kicked off in 08 that still has had ZERO Prosecutions??????
     
  10. VisionBoy

    VisionBoy Scooby

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    Sineya
    This is the second thread with a post like this I've seen from you now, the first being on the "Would you be friends with Willow" thread and I feel the need to say that however politely you may word your homophobia; your branding of characters and themes as "immoral" and "indecent" is incredibly offensive. I'm sorry you feel spooked by the notion of consenting adults having relations that in no way impact on your life, but it happens and I promise you that it's not the way the world is going; there have always been people who aren't heterosexual...the only thing changing is that some people and some parts of the world are growing more tolerant.

    As one of the many members of this forum who happens to identify as part of the LGBT community, I say to you, please: Don't be afraid. We have not all had terrible upbringings, we do not all suffer from mental illness; we are just people. We do not wish to change your life or brain wash you. We want to be treated like any other human being without people telling us constantly how much we disgust, spook or enrage them.

    Please try to have some empathy and imagine how you'd feel if people were saying these things about someone like you. If you were constantly name-called or given judgement/abuse and people considered it "moral" to treat you that way. It's not nice, it actually feels really crappy... and articulately as you may put it, it certainly isn't polite. Part of my morality is to think of how my words can hurt others and to speak respectively of people who's lives may differ from mine.
     
    Blaze: Don't worry, I think that member was banned/left a while back. No room for bigoted homophobia around here!
    thetopher likes this.
  11. omnimercurial

    omnimercurial The Glove of Myghennon is my Oven Mitt!

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    I think Vorchan has less of a problem with the Homosexuality than he/she does how Overt it is?

    I think Vorchan may be from Russia? In which case Family is very important as is "Family Values".

    So much of Russian culture was diminished under Gorbachev and Yeltsin in the late 80's and 90's that many Russians have clung tightly to the few traditions and support structures that survived so much destruction.

    Russians do not hate Gays but they do find their "Openness" or "In your Face demeanour" challenging and upsetting as under the Soviet Union Gay people were quietly tolerated but not encouraged.

    In the new Russian Federation though the ties that the more public gays have to Europe and the West tend to paint all Gays with a Negative Brush.

    The Mental association is that the West/USA/Europe are being aggressive and trying to change our Culture and the Gay Movement most famous in Russia tends to get funding from the West and espouse support of other Western Cultural and Socio Economic goals whoch reek of Imperialism.

    The 93 election in Russia is known by everybody to have been rigged so when Western Nations say Democracy Yay it kind of sends a very insincere and Hypocritical message. But when that message gets tiex to Gay Rights it muddies the waters as Gay People get perceived as collaborators or threats to stability which is what every Russian who gives a damb about more than themselves craves after the ordeals of the Gorby and Yeltsin Era.

    The recent Ukraine situation really really did NOT help either as all of those perceptions of Western Meddling in Russia were basically confirmed in the Russian Psyche.
     
  12. Blaze

    Blaze Let it Burn

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    Black Thorn
    Because being "tolerated" is so nice :rolleyes: I really should send them a thank you postcard. Also the user were speaking of has made countless extremely homophobic posts.
     
    thetopher: For some reason I read that last bit as 'homophobic pants' and spat out my coffee! :)
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  13. VisionBoy

    VisionBoy Scooby

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    Sineya
    And a lot of folks don't hate black people; they just don't want them living in their neighborhoods... kind of in the same bag of bigoted rationalizations.

    Also, for what it's worth, not all gay people have an "in your face" demeanor, in fact a great deal live in fear, even in more accepting countries.

    But yeah I know how things are there, I've seen the pictures of gay people beaten to a pulp. So if the user does originate from there, I understand it more; but it doesn't mean I'll criticize it less.
     
    Blaze: Exactly. In fact, I'd say most gay people are not in your face at all, people just assume we are straight. Which goes to show how society works, don't "look gay", wow must be straight.
    Last edited: May 14, 2015
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  14. Buffy Summers

    Buffy Summers Yataro Staff Member

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    Sineya
    Guys, if you're going to bring a thread back from the dead, let's at least keep the replies on topic...
     
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  15. omnimercurial

    omnimercurial The Glove of Myghennon is my Oven Mitt!

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    Well... i know it's not the best of options thinkable but strangely at the time that "Toleration" was the best most Gays could hope for in that era considering in the UK for a very long time was a prosecutable offence and in the USA being Gay could get you Lynched.

    It may sound Archaic or slightly patronising today but the USSR was funnily enough considered a Sanctuary for Homosexuals at the time whom were persecuted in their home Countries.

    The Russian Federation sadly CANNOT live up to the Achievements and Social acceptance that the USSR managed which for the time was World Leading.

    The RF is a hotbed of Fear and Siege Mentality reigns strong for real reasons and imagined ones.

    I honestly hope things improve their but..... Yeah....

    As to other Statements made by Vorchan I couldn't say as I'm a Newbie member here but my Russian and Belarus Friends have expressed the views I raised earlier which I thought may help explain the Cultural Dissonance somewhat.
    --- Double Post Merged, May 15, 2015, Original Post Date: May 15, 2015 ---
    Maybe? I honestly wouldn't know.
    I don't disagree with you but sadly that is the perception for many Russians.
    The most Vocal and Widely known Gay groups in Russia DO have a bad reputation for Provocative behaviour and ARE tied to equally unpopular Groups such as Neo Liberals, Lobbyists and NGO's who each get Funding from the US Govt and their proxies to introduce and Support Western aims to lesser or greater degrees.
    The Quiet Gays who just want to get on with their lives sadly get flak due to the actions of the PR hungry ones. They get an undeserved bad name as a result.

    I wouldn't expect you too but at least by knowing the causal factors and issues involved there is an option for change and diminishing ignorance on both sides.

    Sadly though te Russian Orthodox Church really adds petrol to things in a way that is not so easily lessened.

    Russians have had their Nation and their Pride trampled on all while suffering extreme hardship, poverty, exploitation and trauma which only now is slowly being diminished bit by bit so in a way it would be too much of a stretch to say the Russian People are suffering a form of PTSD.
    --- Double Post Merged, May 15, 2015 ---
    Sorry.
    --- Double Post Merged, May 15, 2015 ---
    In a more On Topic post....

    Wasn't Satsu in Season 7 Played by Julia Ling who also played Izumi in C&C 3: Red Alert as well as that Character in Chuck?

    If so... Why did they not keep using her face? Is it a money issue?
     
    Blaze: I won't keep the debate going since it's off topic, I get what you're saying, I really do. But the reality is that just because it was the best that you could get in the past doesn't mean that it's okay.
  16. Blaze

    Blaze Let it Burn

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    Black Thorn
    That wasn't Satsu.
     
  17. thetopher

    thetopher Member of the Church Of Faith

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    Sineya
    I've seen fan-made shipper vids where Satsu is depicted by Jamie Chung, which is I think who you mean.
     
  18. omnimercurial

    omnimercurial The Glove of Myghennon is my Oven Mitt!

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    Julia Ling was definately in Buffy S7 so it must not be Satsu maybe?

    Memory a little muddled.

    As to Jamie Chung... I know who you mean as she too was in C&C Red Alert 3 but was not the actress of S7 that played a potential.
     
  19. thetopher

    thetopher Member of the Church Of Faith

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    Sineya
    Having reread Season 8 (and looking forward to Satsu returning to Buffy in Season 10) I still don't see how sleeping with somebody because you're maybe a bit lonely and they've 'proven' (through the magical kiss) that they've in love with you is 'out of character'.

    Buffy often confuses sex with intimacy/love. She first did it with Parker- that one would naturally (and gradually) lead to more intimacy- but Buffy got played. She does it again with Spike in Season 6/7. I had sex with him/used him so there MUST be more to it- maybe 'feels' or something.

    So Buffy discovering one (intimacy) about Satsu's strong feelings for her and then deciding to have sex totally fits with a pattern that Buffy sometimes has.

    In S8 Buffy confronts Satsu about her feelings for her- saying that they're going to get her killed because 'loving Buffy romantically= death' or something. The Twilight attacks, beats them both up a little (Satsu beats herself up verbally afterwards when Buffy shows concern for her) and they later end up in bed. That bit was surprising but it was also telegraphed from that lip-balm comment from earlier.
    Then there's a crisis (japanese vamps with Dracula powers) and by the end of the arc Satsu decides to stay in Japan. Then they boink again because they both enjoyed it the first time.
     
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  20. vellavu

    vellavu Scooby

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    Black Thorn
    I read even stupider comments about how Xander was Joss's avatar and having him rejecting Buffy was a revenge of nice guys.

    "Buffy can't sleep with a girl because it's OOC."
    "Buffy can't pursue Xander because that's author's Nice Guy Syndrome."
    "Having Willow sleeping with Aluwyn was an insult to Oz and Tara."

    But they are totally fine with Buffy sleeping with a room temperature dead-for-hundreds-of-years body controlled by a demon and maybe simultaneous by a human soul. I just don't know what to say.

    Buffy Riley: that's straight.
    Buffy Satsu: that's gay.
    Buffy Vampire: that's fetish. Sexualization of vampires as human male is almost as ridiculous as sexualization of Kennedy as a human male. Considering Aluwyn as a proper female is more reasonable than taking Angel/Spike as proper males.
     
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