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Rape in season 6 (Trigger Warning)

Discussion in 'Sunnydale Cemetery' started by Monkey Pants, Mar 30, 2016.

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  1. gite63

    gite63 Gone

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    Sineya
    I think they did, but Angel doesn't mention anything about this, he doesn't say to Wesley or Cordy that he knows because he listened her heart, literally. He went by his guts. Besides, the hearing thing was just used by the writers when it was convenient to the story.
     
  2. bespangeled

    bespangeled Scooby

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    Black Thorn
    He traveled around the world , fought and nearly got killed to get his soul - then he managed to make it back to Sunnydale, went crazy from guilt exacerbated by the First, tried to get Buffy to stake him - begged her, taunted her, did everything he could. He was taken and tortured but refused to turn his back on Buffy and embrace Evil.

    Now - when Angelus returned and committed some pretty brutal and sadistic killings, we never actually see him in hell afterward. When Willow skinned Warren and tried to destroy the world, she was punished by a visit to England. I could keep listing, but my point is that Spike gets more in the line of punishment than any other character, but it still isn't enough. It never will be for some people.
     
  3. Mr. Pole

    Mr. Pole Scooby

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    Black Thorn
    But we weren't talking about Angel or Willow. We were talking how they glorified an attempted rapist while ignoring the trauma done to the victim. You highlighted how they glorified him, which I embolded. They made an attempted rapist a hero. They wasted four episodes in which they could have addressed the issue.
     
    Monkey Pants: This thread is also about Willow and the bad things she does in season 6
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  4. Dora

    Dora Potential

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    A soled spike was still dangerous and like to hit Women did he not hit Anya,Buffy and Faith....yes if Buffy had said yes to his offer he would have done it
     
  5. Mr. Pole

    Mr. Pole Scooby

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    Black Thorn
    I dont think he would have done it, but I think he would have tried...
     
    Iwearthecheese: Spike v. Faith rematch!
  6. bespangeled

    bespangeled Scooby

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    Black Thorn
    We were actually talking about media messages at that time. Showing someone who does something wrong, and seeks to change and make reparation isn't glorifying what they did wrong. If choosing torture and wanting death isn't penance, than what is?

    As for spotlighting Buffy as the traumatized victim of an attack so horrific that even with all the other horrible things that have happened to her, and not just that day - she is still desperately struggling to resolve that months later....well, I keep asking what we need to see to get that across.
     
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  7. Buffy Summers

    Buffy Summers Yataro Staff Member

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    Sineya
    But we do see him return barely human...
     
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  8. Mr. Pole

    Mr. Pole Scooby

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    Black Thorn
    Because unlike losing your soul, being sent to a hell dimension, learning evil magic and almost destroying the world, rape and sexual violence is a real world, real life problem. To show your heroine which is a role model for young girls as not being affected by her sexual assault does a disservice to those that are. If you were sexually assaulted and you were having issues (which buffy demonstrated a decade later in the comics) and you could turn on the television and see that, for all intensive purposes a superhero had those same issues that it might make you feel normal to feel that way. It might make you feel like it will get better. You could find strength in seeing that Buffy was weak as well. Instead you look at a Buffy that was not affected and then compare it to you own life and the problems you have and it would only make those problems seem worse. You would seem more weak.

    That is the issue I have with how it was handled. Buffy, regardless if they wanted it or not, was a role model show. It was a teenage show that dealt with teenage problems. They made a poor statement with the follow-up episodes by not addressing it and hiding it. As was Buffy's reaction. It paints her as weak and the victim; and everyone else by proxy that suffered a similar situation.
     
  9. bespangeled

    bespangeled Scooby

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    Black Thorn
    Well - then agree to disagree.

    As a survivor of long term abuse myself, I actually see that as extremely toxic. It's making a statement that beyond all other horrible life events an attempted rape is the worst thing to happen and the hardest thing to recover from - even when you are dealing with the unrealistic fact that Buffy had the strength to kick Spike across the room. To take this tack is to elevate this short struggle (compared to other struggles on the show) as a horror beyond having friends murdered or having a friend go insane from grief.

    That really kinda doesn't give a lot of hope to normal victims of any gender or age.

    And the fact that they dealt with it in the comics just shows that recovery doesn't mean the issue disappears completely.
     
  10. Mr. Pole

    Mr. Pole Scooby

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    Black Thorn
    As a survivor of long term abuse myself, I would have found it very therapeutic. As I think many others would have.
    --- Double Post Merged, Apr 16, 2016 ---
    Ok, so let me make sure I get this right... showing Buffy as being depressed is good because people get depressed and it would be good for them to see Buffy gets depressed as well, but showing Buffy as a victim of sexual abuse is bad because people are sexually abused but we dont want them to feel bad about it?
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2016
  11. bespangeled

    bespangeled Scooby

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    Black Thorn
    We see Buffy making the journey of recovery from a depression that was caused by having her ripped out of heaven and having to claw her way out of her grave.

    I can't see elevating the AR to that status, particularly give that the problem here is that Buffy recovered over the 3 months of summer - that the attack is no longer a life issue which is what recovery is all about. She is shown her as having taken back her life and in a good place finally, which I find very much in character. I don't see where a rollback, and repetition of season 6 level trauma gives any sort of positive message. I don't see where elevating this attack way above the murder of a friend - which also happens in real life - is realistic or positive.

    You prefer not to agree to disagree on this, as I said? We're both survivors - we just come to different conclusions as to what message is being given. Given the personal sensitivity of this, I respect your conclusion. Please respect mine.
     
  12. Mr. Pole

    Mr. Pole Scooby

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    Black Thorn
    But you didn't see it. They had four episodes to touch on it and they didnt even mention it. Doing it over the summer and offscreen is crap and a lazy way to address it. The fact there was a death of another character is only an excuse for them for not mentioning. Not only that but she clearly did not recover from it if Spike being in the bathroom while she is in the shower sets her off.
     
  13. bespangeled

    bespangeled Scooby

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    Black Thorn
    Once again - I agree to disagree.
     
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