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Rape in season 6 (Trigger Warning)

Discussion in 'Sunnydale Cemetery' started by Monkey Pants, Mar 30, 2016.

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  1. gite63

    gite63 Gone

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    Sineya
    I don't think so...

    A beaten man (with no feeling on his arm...) and Cordy/a bunch of Potentials, a powerful witch, Xander, Anya and a Slayer.
    --- Double Post Merged, Apr 15, 2016 ---
    I do love practical Cordy!
     
  2. Mr. Pole

    Mr. Pole Scooby

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    Black Thorn
    One wanting to be and do the right thing finally, the other having no control over their actions. Spike had the potential to be much more dangerous and deadly.
     
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  3. Buffy Summers

    Buffy Summers Yataro Staff Member

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    Sineya
    (In my opinion) if we're talking Big Bad Spike, then yes, that works, but Wes & Cordy were adults, and unpredictable killing machine Spike + a bunch of minors is a bad idea all around. Even if Angel & Faith was a bad idea, so was Spike & Potentials.
     
  4. gite63

    gite63 Gone

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    Sineya
    And how could Angel know that Faith was being honest? He just trusted her, he wanted to trust her, because of his own history, he desperately wanted to believe that someone evil can change, can be saved, can be good.
     
  5. Buffy Summers

    Buffy Summers Yataro Staff Member

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    Sineya
    I think a more comparable analogy would have been Dana, rather than Faith.
     
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  6. gite63

    gite63 Gone

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    Sineya
    He did attack Andrew, and in like, one second, the crisis was averted...
     
  7. Mr. Pole

    Mr. Pole Scooby

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    Black Thorn
    That alone should prove the point of the danger.
     
  8. Buffy Summers

    Buffy Summers Yataro Staff Member

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    Sineya
    Doesn't make it smart just because a tragedy didn't happen.
     
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  9. Dolores

    Dolores Professional sleeper

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    God I'd forgotten just how many bad decisions Buffy made in this season!
     
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  10. Mr. Pole

    Mr. Pole Scooby

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    Black Thorn
    The real tragedy is he didnt get to eat Andrew. That would have been appealing.
     
  11. GoSpuffy

    GoSpuffy Vampire Lover, I mean Slayer

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    Black Thorn
    I always thought that Buffy trusted Spike in this instance because of her slayer dreams. She seemed to know well in advance of the necklace showing up that Spike was going to "make a difference".
     
    gite63: Yeah, she had more background to trust Spike, to trust the situation. And like Angel and Faith's case, she was right.
  12. gite63

    gite63 Gone

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    Sineya
    How so?

    But if you think, Dana and Faith were traumatized by what happened to them, and turned (psychotic) bad; it's just that the writers decided to make Faith good, because she was popular. She had been called crazy several times, and suddenly, she wasn't anymore, it was up to her to make the choice to be good.

    SPIKE: Andrew double-crossed us? That's a good move. Hope for the little ponce yet. Though the tingling in my forearms tells me she's too far gone to help. She's...one of us now. She's a monster.
    ANGEL: She's an innocent victim.
    SPIKE: So were we... once upon a time.
    ANGEL: Once upon a time.
     
  13. Buffy Summers

    Buffy Summers Yataro Staff Member

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    Sineya
    No I meant, Dana and Spike (at that time) were both unpredictably not in their right minds. And so you wouldn't be able to predict how they would behave at any given moment.
     
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  14. Iwearthecheese

    Iwearthecheese Scooby

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    Not immediately no, because he was reluctant to leave her alone even with no one else around.
    I think he felt for her because he'd been exactly where she had been- feeling like an outcast and a monster. He understood her which is why he took the risk.

    Psychotics don't feel guilt for the pain they've caused. Thet don't generally hate themselves either. Faith did both these things. If she were diagnosed by a trained professional, that would be fact.

    As both Giles and Angel himself have pointed out Faith is that good a liar or actor. Angel is a lot better.
    Plus Faith begged Angel to kill her and broke down sobbing in his arms. How is that an act? Or even a bluff that makes any sort of sense? It doesn't make sense because if Faith wanted to kill Angel- he would've been dead most likely the episode before.

    Angel knew- as soon as he kicked in that door- what Faith wanted. She was waiting for him and wanted to provoke him into killing her. That was shown through flashbacks.

    This was actually a risk.
    But I could at least understand how Angel, somebody who had been in a similar place to Faith. could hope to try and reach her the way he may've wished to be helped. Angel had nobody, but Faith had him.

    I don't really see how its comparable to Buffy and Spike's situation. Spike was being triggered and controlled, Buffy didn't know anything about that process or the enemy they now faced, she couldn't empathise with that situation and therefore couldn't possibly predict if Spike would hurt anyone.

    In fact Faith didn't hurt anyone after being brought into Angel's home- - just an assassin demon- because she could control herself, but that wasn't the same case with Spike. He attacked Buffy, attacked Andrew and nearly killed him agains this will- he had no memory of it. So how is it sensible for Buffy to trust him when he's blacking out and smashing walls?

    There really isn't any contest between Angel S1 and Buffy S7 when it comes to the quality of storytelling.
     
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  15. RomanticSoul

    RomanticSoul I AM GROOT

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    Because the reason has been stated before. If you want to kill the b*tch she has to want to die. You do that by going after the people Buffy cares about. And those Spike can't go after with the chip in his head. Spike knows he can only have Buffy if she is completely isolated from the people she loves or if they are dead because then she is depressed enough to do him.

    See, I don't care about Joss 'Spike's biggest redemption fan' Whedon's rewritten scene in that episode. I go with the original scene by the actual writer of the episode (same in Beneath You). It was their story after all for the rest of the episode. See I can pick the canon I prefer too.
     
  16. Buffy Summers

    Buffy Summers Yataro Staff Member

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    Sineya
    Let's calm down - we're all friends here.

    :)
     
  17. Taake

    Taake Tweedledee Staff Member

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    Black Thorn
    I have no idea what any of this means, I don't read the scripts. The canon comment seems redundant.
     
  18. RomanticSoul

    RomanticSoul I AM GROOT

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    Well sure but it doesn't say whether those feelings are positive or negative or both. So who knows what she was refering to.

    Where was that, in canon, on screen? I must have missed that slayer dream. Can someone point me to it? Was this said in some interview?

    The scene you referenced was from Hell's Bells. That scene was changed by Joss himself. The original scene by the actual writer of the episode was quite different. Same thing happened in 'Beneath You'.
     
  19. GoSpuffy

    GoSpuffy Vampire Lover, I mean Slayer

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    Black Thorn
    Isn't canon what actually appears on screen or in the comics? You can't pick and choose script versions as being canon IMO.

    We never got to see the slayer dreams but they were referred to in the script. Buffy had a reason to believe in Spike. Makes sense it was because of something she knew, maybe from her instincts or her dreams.
     
  20. RomanticSoul

    RomanticSoul I AM GROOT

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    That is always my position and I always make that very clear, hence that part of my post was sarcasm.

    See I can pick the canon I prefer too. <- sarcasm

    But you did the same thing with what I quoted in my last post. Where were we shown, on screen, that Buffy had a slayer dream about the amulet and Spike's sacrifice?
     
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