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The police woman shooting at Buffy?

Discussion in 'Season 2' started by Xin Rong, Aug 23, 2014.

  1. Xin Rong

    Xin Rong Killed by Dissertation

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    This may be a cultural thing, but would a police person really shoot at a 16 year old running away from a crime scene? I'm referring to the opening act in Becoming part 2, after Buffy goes to the library.
     
  2. Fuffy Baith

    Fuffy Baith 2017 (and 2016) Cutest BB member

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    Sineya
    I don't really remember that, but the police have to warn you to stop before they shoot at you. I think the circumstance was they thought she killed Kendra and if they think she's a murderer then they can't afford to just let her go. She also could have just been firing warning shots to scare Buffy into stopping. I'm not sure what the law is about shooting people under the age of 18.
     
  3. white avenger

    white avenger white avenger

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    In Georgia, and I'm just about certain that this applies to every state in the U S, the police don't fire "warning shots," in fact, there are very strict rules concerning when and where they can even draw their weapons, and they have to file a detailed report every time that they fire even a single round other that at an authorized shooting range. Basically, the only excusable instance in which a policeman may fire is when presented with a direct life threatening situation, either to themselves or someone else. Firing at a fleeing suspect, or even firing at a vehicle's tires, would be strictly forbidden, and would cost the policeman his job and possibly result in prison time.

    Like many other things seen in movies and on TV, this is done strictly for dramatic effect. No law enforcement officer, private investigator, or member of any branch of the U S military would ever do such a thing in real life.
     
  4. Fuffy Baith

    Fuffy Baith 2017 (and 2016) Cutest BB member

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    Sineya
    Well that's good know. But we all know how inept Sunnydale police officers are, s it's possible she was firing a warning shot or maybe she was just trying to wound Buffy, it's a TV show, like you said it's there to add drama. I don't even remember her shooting at Buffy so it doesn't really matter why.
     
    white avenger: Are you suggesting that Mayor Wilkins would allow such irresponsible behavior under his administration? I am SHOCKED!
  5. Living Dead Boy

    Living Dead Boy Joss is Boss

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    Black Thorn
    I would love to believe this. But given the amount of police misconduct that's been going on, not just recently (Ferguson anyone?), but in general in the U.S, I honestly wouldn't be shocked. Of course, they shouldn't. In an ideal world, yes, if an officer were to do this, then consequences should be dealt. But I have witnessed too many times when officer have gotten away with LITERAL MURDER, and not a single reprimand was given. In some cases, they don't even file the report correctly, and they omit key elements of the incident. So to answer the question, yes, a police officer really would.
     
  6. white avenger

    white avenger white avenger

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    I will rephrase. No RESPONSIBLE police officer would do any of those things. There are always bad exceptions to all rules, and there will always be those who abuse the power of their authority. However, for every one who does those things, there are literally thousands who do not/ You may have seen police officers get away with literal murder, and I have seen responsible, honest, dedicated law enforcement personnel who literally go their entire careers without ever firing a single round in the line of duty. Unfortunately, it's always the exception to the rule that makes all the news broadcasts.

    I prefaced my statement by qualifying that those are the rules here in Georgia, and I'm pretty sure that the rules that apply in my home state also apply to California, which is where Sunnydale is located. As I said, depicting a police officer firing at an unarmed fugitive who poses no threat is done strictly for its dramatic effect, with no attempt at realism.
     
  7. Blaze

    Blaze Let it Burn

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    Black Thorn
    Well it wouldn't be unprecedented for something like that to happen. Legally maybe they can't, but kids have been killed by police officers before. I don't want to generalize because the majority of officers do their job correctly, but there will always be that one person who does something like that.
     
  8. Robb Stark

    Robb Stark King in the North

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    Sineya
    See...this is one of the huge problems of events like Ferguson (or the policewoman shooting at Buffy I suppose). It casts a horrible pall of law enforcement officials, one that isn't statistically supported much at all.

    In the last seven years in the United States, American police made approximately 98 million arrests. Of those 98 million, the Justice Department classified just 0.005 of them homicides. 0.005 percent. However, those 0.005 percent, and other instances of similarly rare but awful police misconduct, get magnified and amplified in the public sphere to such an extent that it creates an unfair perception that the police are out there actively seeking to hurt or victimize people. That's just not true.

    America doesn't have a police misconduct problem. There are problem officers, and there are extremely rare occasions, like Ferguson, where a policy approach goes horribly wrong, but on the whole I think that our police are exemplary. Think of how many cops there are in America. As of 2012 there are more than 120, 000. With that number, some of them aren't going to be perfect. That's just a statistical reality. But on the whole, in total, the vast majority are good, honest people who perform an incredible service.
     
  9. Living Dead Boy

    Living Dead Boy Joss is Boss

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    Black Thorn
    I guess I can only speak for myself. American politics, the government, the criminal justice system, all look a little different when you're a minority. These aren't rare occasions, these are everyday struggles for some. I haven't done a single thing wrong in my entire life, nor do I plan on doing so, yet I have constantly received harassment from police, simply because I was wrongly profiled. My grandmother has been profiled. My uncle has been profiled. We look at these institutions with two very different viewpoints. I'm an observer, and I have seen all sides. I could write a novel about the reasons why certain members of society are treated poorly, and race, gender, and socioeconomic status all come into play. I genuinely have no doubt that there are good law enforcement officers, but in all honesty I haven't met one yet.
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2014
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  10. Orion

    Orion Townie

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    I wouldn't call it "extremely rare occasion", it's more like a daily happening. Based on FBI's data, police officers kill at least 400 people yearly legally in the US. For example, the Ferguson incident was considered legal. There's no data about illegal killings, but the number is estimated to be quite high.

    For comparison, German police killed total of 7 people in 2010-2012.

    Edit: I can't post sources, because apparently new users aren't allowed to post URLs. Great.
     
    Xin Rong: Welcome to the boards :)
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2014
  11. Robb Stark

    Robb Stark King in the North

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    Sineya
    That's a crime problem, not a police one. If those are warranted shootings where that degree of force was called for, then that's not a "problem" with the police. The German statistic isn't really a fair comparison. America may have a crime problem, it may have a gun problem, but the statistics just flat out do not support that American cops are cowboys out there mowing people down. Look at the statistic (in the part of my post you chose to omit) about how, based on the number of arrests police make, result in fatal shootings. It's a miniscule number.

    And events like Ferguson are hardly, HARDLY, a regular occurrence.
     
  12. Cordy_Chase

    Cordy_Chase Tact is just not saying true stuff. I'll pass.

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    Sineya
    Well I believe Sunnydale is supposed to be located in California, possibly even in place of a city neighboring my own which is one letter away from sharing the name (I once lived there as a child). That would make sense of the perceived easy journey between it and LA during small crossover concepts between BTVS and the Angel spin-off.
    So I've researched the Police shooting policy in California.

    There was a statement in an article I came across telling of a mistaken identity police shooting in LA earlier this year. Two women who were delivering newspapers around their neighborhood in a vehicle which was similar down to some digits of the plate number to that of a killer police were after was shot at while going along on their way. The officers responsible were accused of acting "out of policy" but the victims sympathized with the intention and the following was pointed out:

    Source: http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/l...men-Delivery-Torrance-Shooting-243564431.html

    I also found this statement of California police shooting policy:

    Source: http://thinkprogress.org/justice/20...aped-charges-for-shooting-a-13-year-old-dead/

    I don't remember exactly how the scene in this episode occurred but Buffy's age didn't matter, in fact a great deal of police shootings due to mistaken identity or misperception happen to teenagers. If she gave the officer reason to immediately fear for her 's or someone else's life, the shooting was justified. You say however that she was running when shot at? What were her actions right before that, when the officers arrived on the scene? If Buffy attacked an officer and was shot at just as she was beginning to bolt it was within policy. Now Buffy was thought to have murdered Kendra, that much I remember so I'm betting the shooting officer feared that she would kill on the go if anyone got in her way. Whether or not this qualifies as within policy is arguable.

    Unfortunately however that second article also states that limited available data suggests that it's quite rare for an officer to be held accountable for using lethal force. So it doesn't much matter either way.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2014
  13. Mr. Pole

    Mr. Pole Scooby

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    Black Thorn
    Buffy was suspected of murder, she beat up a male police officer that tried to handcuff her, and then she ran away. Incidents like this is why many police are using bean bag rounds. So they could still shoot her as she is fleeing, and apprehend her, without using lethal force. It was a criminal action for them to take shots at her as the scene played it. It was simply added for dramatic effect.
     
  14. Mr Trick

    Mr Trick Scooby

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    I suspect that it was done for dramatic effect too, but certainly like many things on the show it did rise an interesting and quite scary social issue.
     
  15. GwenRaiden

    GwenRaiden AKA Apology Girl

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    Black Thorn
    Nowadays? Yes. And a 16yo not at a crime scene, a 16yo minding their own business, a 16yo pleading with them not to shoot them, not to beat them to death or beat them enough to leave them mentally or physically disabled for life. Begging them not to shoot or beat their friend or family member infront of them.

    But that's just my opinion.
     
    Living Dead Boy: I second that.
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  16. Buffy Summers

    Buffy Summers Yataro Staff Member

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    Sineya
    Let's not get into that whole debate here folks.
     
  17. Mr Trick

    Mr Trick Scooby

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    Why not? I don't think anyone has gone off topic, their just applying something which happened in the show to real life stuff which we've done in other threads too.
     
  18. Buffy Summers

    Buffy Summers Yataro Staff Member

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    Sineya
    Because derailing the thread with "Cops shoot innocent people" "Cops only shoot criminals" screaming back and forth isn't good for anyone. Keep it in the context of Buffy please.
    --- Double Post Merged, Aug 4, 2015, Original Post Date: Aug 4, 2015 ---
    No need to apologize - just wanted to head that off before it spiraled.
     
    Mr. Pole: gun control!! gun control!! more guns! less guns! call Amy Schumer!
    GwenRaiden: Apologies. I'd start a thread in the bronze but I think it's all been covered in this one.
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  19. laianna

    laianna Potential

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    In response to the original question though, about whether or not a police officer would actually shoot at a 16 year old running away from a crime scene... I think the answer is yes. I'm not clear on the actual laws on the matter, but my impression is that officers are allowed to use deadly force on a person fleeing a crime scene, regardless of age. It's unlikely this would happen to Buffy as a middle-class white woman, but could she be shot for her actions? I think yes in the context of her supposed crime.
     
  20. white avenger

    white avenger white avenger

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    I'm not gonna say that something like that never has happened, or even that it never will happen again, but, "allowed?" Absolutely not. Police officers can legally use deadly force ONLY when either their lives, or the lives of bystanders are in imminent threat, and even then, they had better be able to prove beyond any shadow of a doubt that all other options had been tried and had failed. The guys on "Castle," or "Hawaii Five O" fire their sidearms more in a single episode than the vast majority of American peace officers do in their entire career.

    (Incidentally, a little off subject, but it is now illegal in New York for toy stores to sell "realistic" looking toy guns. Next thing you know, they'll be limiting the number of rounds your Nerf guns can load and requiring a permit to own a light saber)