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vShould Dawn Have Died At The End of Season 5?

Discussion in 'Season 5' started by S Rou, Mar 21, 2017.

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  1. flow

    flow Potential

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    I have to admit that I haven`t seen season 1 yet. I have ordered it just now and I will come back to this thread after I have watched "The Pack". This summary

    The Pack

    seems to suggest though that the zookeeper was killed in a fight ?

    flow
     
  2. Priceless

    Priceless She doesn't just fight evil, she redeems it

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    The zookeeper was threatening Willow, I think he was going to throw her to the hyenas, so it wasn't as though Buffy killed an innocent bystander
     
    flow:
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  3. DeadlyDuo

    DeadlyDuo Scooby

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    The Zookeeper took on the Hyena demon so at that juncture, he kind of wasn't human anymore.
     
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  4. RomanticSoul

    RomanticSoul I AM GROOT

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    Killing and murder are two different things and Buffy has shown herself capable of doing both. She has killed people in the line of duty since S1. She also tried to murder (Ted, Faith). So lets not pretend Buffy is all that virtuous.


    Actually Buffy has only 2 options. Kill Dawn or let Dawn sacrifice herself. She had already decided to do neither until her epiphany of self-sacrifice which I discard. It was like Whedon standing there on the tower with her holding up a sign that said 'I pulled this out of my ass.' The problem for me to this day remains that Buffy sacrificing herself is utter BS because it shouldn't have worked. Reverse Biology in reproduction just doesn't exist. Basic Biology knowledge that you get in school would have taught Whedon that.

    Buffy didn't jump into a portal, she had jumped over the shark.
     
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  5. sk73

    sk73 The Overlooked One

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    Sineya
    I don't understand what real world biology has anything to do with it.
    Whedon did probably learn in school that vampires can't exists either but wrote a story like Buffy anyway.

    Why should he start worrying about stuff like that in season 5?

    /SK
     
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  6. RomanticSoul

    RomanticSoul I AM GROOT

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    An example someone used for the Dawn/Buffy crap that has always stuck with me. 'Every poodle is a dog, but not every dog is a poodle.' So while Dawn may have Buffy's blood and is made from her, it doesn't retroactively make Buffy a Key too. Because biology doesn't work like that. Dawn is the key with key blood. Buffy doesn't magically become a key with key blood because her blood was used to create Dawn. If you give birth to a God, does that retroactively make you a God too? No, because that's not how biology works.

    No clue what vampires have to do with that.
     
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  7. sk73

    sk73 The Overlooked One

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    Sineya
    I just think that the fact that Dawn is a Key to a hell dimension made out of, whatever she was made of, throws any sensible explanations out the window anyway.
    Why would anything work in any particular way? It's made up magic not biology.

    What surprised me was the remark that Whedon should've been better educated and understand how impossible this whole thing is.
    Of course he does. He just ignores it just like he, and the other writers, has done countless of other times from episode one of the show.
    Why expect anything else this time?

    /SK
     
  8. RomanticSoul

    RomanticSoul I AM GROOT

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    Look, I accept the fact that Dawn looks nothing like Buffy despite Buffy being the only DNA source to give Dawn a human form. I just explain it away with the fact that the key is mystical energy. So it's not like I have trouble with the whole concept in general.

    The fact remains though that Dawn was the Key and only Key blood would be able to open/close the portal. The only way that Buffy can take Dawn's place is if Buffy suddenly has Key blood too. All that 'death is her gift' nonsense doesn't matter to me because even though slayers are mystical in their own way, they are not Keys. Buffy's epiphany was 2 sided. One was the 'death is her gift thing' and the other was that because Dawn is made of her, she also can function as Key. And that's simply not true. Just because Dawn is made from her doesn't retroactively make Buffy a Key with Key blood. And if that's possible or the case then we should have been told that.

    You are right. Why should I expect anything from a guy who himself has said 'I don't know from science.'? Sorry, my bad.
     
  9. S Rou

    S Rou Townie

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    Not just me... More than half the fandom wants her gone.
     
  10. Slayrunt

    Slayrunt Oh ho! Aren’t you Mr. Dicey Semantics?

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    i liked Dawn because she gave Buffy a reason to keep fighting. in the beginning it seemed her reasons for fighting werent too clear and she just felt she had a duty. but then having a close bond like a sister around gives a stronger meaning to fighting.. so it makes sense to me.
    although i suppose it would have been interesting to see where the story went if dawn had died and how Buffy would deal with that.
     
  11. Mylie

    Mylie Scooby

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    The relationship between Buffy/Dawn is the one thing that made Buffy appear more human and relatable to me in the last 2 seasons. I don't want to imagine what Buffy would have been like without Dawn to remind her that life and love still mattered.

    Dawn dying would have broken Buffy even more than her own death and coming back, in my personal opinion. There's a reason why she decided to sacrifice herself. She was done losing people and Dawn was the most innocent part of herself. Had it died, I think Buffy Summers, as we know her, would have died even more so then she did. Season 6 was already depressing enough as it is without adding Buffy feeling survivor's guilt and the failure of protecting the one person that mattered to her the most. After losing her mother and feeling helpless in doing so, that would have just been pilling it up. Based on what she said in The Gift (I don't know how to live in this world if these are the choices, if everything just gets stripped away, I don't see the point), I don't see how she would have not killed herself. She wouldn't have had Dawn to think of and help her want to live again.