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What Angel comics are necessary

Discussion in 'Comics' started by Geobubbles, Feb 16, 2017.

  1. Geobubbles

    Geobubbles Can I play with the puppy?

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    Black Thorn
    I know this has been posted a few times, but as I am only reading comics on readcomics.tv I'm missing a few comics on the site. I have read Season 8 of Buffy and Angel After the Fall volumes 1-4. Of the Angel comics they have these: Screenshot_2017-02-16-12-33-57.png

    And of the Spike comics they only have Alone Together Now and Stranger Things.

    Could someone tell me out of the comics listed which reading order I should use and what ones are really necessary/good to read. I'd like to read the Spike ones and I want to know what happens to the Angel cast and I've heard Drusilla makes an appearance in one of the comics?
    Sorry very confused and have limited comics to read :/
     
  2. The Ferg

    The Ferg Mine is an evil laugh!

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    Well that's definitely not the most comprehensive list I've ever seen. It has most of it, but but it's missing a few big ones, specifically the Drusilla story. The only ones I highly recommend are the Spike comics and Angel & Faith. Here's the skinny on the comics you can read on your app, in chronological order:

    Angel vs. Frankenstein- Takes place in the far past. It's not bad. Kind of fun.
    Angel: Aftermath- This is Volume 5. It came out immediately after AtF, and it's really really awful.
    Angel: Only Human- This can be read before or afetr Aftermath. This story has nothing to do with Angel, and instead is about Illyria and Gunn battling the Scourge. I really liked it.
    Angel: Immortality for Dummies- Volume 7.
    Angel: Crown Prince Syndrome- Volume 8. These are the continuing adventures of Angel and co. after the events of AtF. They're not great but I was pretty entertained. If you're super curious about the future of Angel, read these. You are missing the finale and best part though.
    Angel - Illyria - Haunted- Illyria's adventures in the deeper well. I was a little underwhelmed, but if you're an Illyria fan, this is a must-read.
    Spike: Alone Together Now- This is part one of an 8-issue Spike series. It's made by the same team that did After The Fall, and leads directly into BS8.
    Spike: Stranger Things- Part 2.
    Angel & Faith- This was published by Dark Horse (the rest of these were IDW) at the same time as Buffy: Season 9. It's fantastic, but has an entirely different tone from the rest of this stuff.

    These next two are slightly confusing, and require some back story. Dark Horse used to publish Angel comics alongside Buffy comics in the early 2000's, but they gave up the Angel license soon after the BS7 ended. IDW snatched up the rights shortly after AS5 ended. These two stories (along with a few others) were some of the first comics they published, before After The Fall. They were supposed to take place after AS5, but then AtF kind of overruled that. If you're not a sucker for continuity, you'll probably enjoy them, especially Auld Lang Syne.
    Angel: Old Friend
    Angel: Auld Lang Syne





    In case you're curious, I gave Mylie a comprehensive list of every Angel and Spike comics that IDW published post-AtF in another thread, so here's a copy of that.

    After The Fall
    1-5. Vol. 1
    6-8. Vol. 2- First Night
    9-12. Vol. 3
    13-17. Vol. 4

    Aftermath
    18-22. Aftermath (Vol. 5)

    Last Angel in Hell (Vol. 6)
    23. Epilogue (starring Gunn. Leads directly into Angel: Only Human)
    24-25. Drusilla's First Night (cowritten by Juliet Landau)
    26-27. Boys and Their Toys (Angel and Spike swap bodies at Comic-Con)
    Last Angel in Hell One-Shot (an in-universe movie about the exploits of Angel and co in HelLA, but the "writer" got a few things wrong.. for one, Spike isn't a girl. It's hilarious)

    The End (not the official name, but it is the title of the big hardcover that collects these next three books)
    28-32. Immortality for Dummies (Vol. 7)
    33-38. The Crown Prince Syndrome (Vol. 8)
    39-44. The Wolf, The Ram, and The Hart (Vol. 9)

    Spike
    1-4. Alone Together Now
    5-8. Stranger Things

    There's a bunch of other books that came out during this time too:
    Spike: After The Fall
    Angel: Only Human (starring Illyria and Gunn... not Angel)
    Spike: The Devil You Know
    Illyria: Haunted
    Lorne: Music of the Spheres (one-shot, a tribute to Andy Hallett telling the tale of Lorne's death)
    Angel: Blood and Trenches (set during WWI)
    Angel: Barbary Coast (set after Blood and Trenches, art by the glorious Franco Urru)
    Angel vs. Frankenstein I & II (both set in the past)
    Angel: Yearbook (the final IDW comic, one-shot with 7 shorts)

    Chronological order is pretty simple.
    Angel: After The Fall Vol. 1-2
    Spike: After The Fall
    Angel: After The Fall Vol. 3-4
    Angel Vol. 5-6 (you can read 6 first, because it's an epilogue to After The Fall)
    Lorne One-Shot
    Angel Vol. 7
    Spike: The Devil You Know
    Angel Vol. 8
    Illyria: Haunted
    Angel Vol. 9
    Angel: Yearbook
     
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  3. Geobubbles

    Geobubbles Can I play with the puppy?

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    Black Thorn
    Thank you so much you have helped a lot. Im going to try and find Last Angel in Hell (because it seems hilarious), the Lorne one because he's amazing and The Wolf the Ram and the Hart so I'll be able to read the finale. I'll have to try and find another online comic site that has them or get someone to download them for me. I think I might skip Aftermath? Is there anything important that I would be missing out on if I do that, it seems like it pretty terrible.
     
  4. The Ferg

    The Ferg Mine is an evil laugh!

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    Aftermath is truly awful. It's possibly the worst Buffyverse comic ever published, and that's saying something. Honestly though, there are a few characters introduced here that pop up in Vol. 7-9. In no way do you need to read Aftermath to understand what's going on, but it is helpful. You should just read the first issue and see if it's worth it to you to continue.
    Also just want to warn you that I didn't love the Lorne one-shot. I'm not sure what the consensus is, so don't trust me too much, but I always find it underwhelming and pointless. It's fun and all, but it just felt kind of hollow to me.

    It's really easy to download comics. Just download the Comixology app on your phone (or just go to the site). It has every single Angel and Buffy comic and they're not even that expensive. If you need cheaper than that, you can find almost everything for $5-10 on Amazon.

    Make sure to come back here and post your thoughts!
     
  5. Geobubbles

    Geobubbles Can I play with the puppy?

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    Black Thorn
    Ohkay definitely skipping aftermath then. I found Last Angel in Hell on Google books for really cheap and I love it!!! I've gotten up to the part when Spike is Angel and its the best thing ever. "We shall call him Spangel." :') not too mention the movie that was made and that guy at the convention asking if it was cannon or not.
    Screenshot_2017-02-16-16-26-58.png
     
    The Ferg: It's just perfect, isn't it?
  6. Guy

    Guy Scooby

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    Black Thorn
    This is fantastic (Seriously, thank you for the hard work!), but it's missing the VERY BEST ONES (in my opinion, anyway):

    'Spike: Asylum' and 'Spike: Shadow Puppets', which should be read before 'Angel: After the Fall', although they're not STRICTLY canonical. 'Spike: Asylum' comes first, and then 'Spike: Shadow Puppets'.
     
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  7. The Ferg

    The Ferg Mine is an evil laugh!

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    I definitely consider them canonical! And they're for sure some of the best Buffyverse comics. The reason I didn't bring it up is because I didn't want to overwhelm Geobubbles with the stuff that came before AtF. There's actually quite a few mini-series and one-shots I missed. I suppose I might as well have just listed them on the original post... Everything that's not specified is a 5-issue mini-series.

    Angel
    Vol. 1. The Curse
    Vol. 2. Old Friends
    Vol. 3. Spotlight (series of one-shots starring Wesley, Doyle, Gunn, Illyria, and Connor)
    Vol. 4. Auld Lang Syne
    -Masks (one-shot, contains a few short stories)

    Spike
    Asylum
    Shadow Puppets

    Spike vs. Dracula
    -Old Times (one-shot)
    -Old Wounds (one-shot)
    -Lost & Found (one-shot)

    Asylum and Shadow Puppets are bolded because of their pseudo-canonicity. These two, as well as Spike: After The Fall are by the same team that did AtF (Brian Lynch/Franco Urru) and some events and character are referenced in the actual canon comics. These make up the de facto Spike trilogy by Brian Lynch and Franco Urru, culminating in the 8-issue Spike (Alone Together Now, Stranger Things) series. I consider them all canon, and they're widely recognized across the fandom as some of the best Buffyverse comics.

    Well s***, that wasn't that hard. Might as well have just put that in the original post.
     
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  8. Guy

    Guy Scooby

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    Black Thorn
    You're doing God's work!

    Honestly, the only comics that I really consider to be canonical are 'Fray', 'Tales', season 8, and 'Angel & Faith' (only the first season). The rest of the Dark Horse comics seasons kinda depend on how well their next seasons will end (Because season 8 was a terrific ending for Buffy's story IMO, and 'Angel & Faith' was a terrific ending for Angel's). The IDW comics are not my favorite, really, although I did find most of them to be entertaining. I'd like to consider 'Spike: Asylum' and 'Spike: Shadow Puppets' to be canon, by they have too many continuity issues for me... Still great stories, though.
     
  9. The Ferg

    The Ferg Mine is an evil laugh!

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    Thank you! I really appreciate it! For whatever reason, I'm kind of a weirdo about having obsessive knowledge about Whedonverse comics, and this forum is perfect to just let it all loose. It's nice that my weirdness seems to be actually helping people!

    I understand the sentiment. I consider quite a bit more than you to be canon, but there's only a few that I consider truly great: Fray, Tales, Season 8 (especially the first half), After The Fall, Angel & Faith: Season 9, and all of the Lynch/Urru Spike comics. The way I see it.. there are really bad episodes of the show, so if I'm gonna rewatch those I might as well read the less-than-fantastic comics too. While entertaining, I wasn't too impressed with BS9 or BS10, although I still need to reread BS10 again without month-long breaks inbetween issues, in order to solidify my opinions. I couldn't even get through A&FS10. I dropped it around issue 10 (which I've never done with a Whedon comic before), because it bored me and it simply never got me interested enough to actually read the new issues every month. Buffy and Angel Season 11 seem to be a step in the right direction, so we'll see how that goes.

    What are the canon problems in Asylum and Shadow Puppets? Either I can't remember them, or I blocked them out because they're so good.
     
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  10. Mylie

    Mylie Scooby

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    I seem to be the only person on this forum who hated season 8...

    I wish I could consider it non-canon but if I want to consider Angel and Faith season 9 canon then season 8 of BtVS has to be canon too.
     
    The Ferg: Why did you hate it?
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  11. Mylie

    Mylie Scooby

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    @TheFerg

    I disliked the weird things like Dawn being a giant and a centaur, the bugs and the spaceship, etc.. I think the writers went too far with a lot of it. It didn't feel like the same world as on the show and made me come out of the story.

    And I hated the characterization in general, but especially Angel's. I also feel like they cared more about shocking the audience etc. than developping a meaningful story that made sense. I felt like everything was on the surface and there wasn't much depth to any of it.

    That said, I enjoyed some things from it and even loved No Future for You and Wolves at the Gate but in general it was a big miss for me.
     
  12. Guy

    Guy Scooby

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    Black Thorn
    I actually really loved Buffy season 10. Not as much as season 8, and I would have liked more serious drama, and it could have been less soapy, but still - very good season, overall. And 'New Rules' was freakin' awesome!
    A&F season 10 is the worst, though. It commits the worst sin a story can commit - it's DULL.

    I haven't started season 11 yet. Here's hoping it's even better than season 10! :)

    They were released before ATF, so there's all sorts of "hints" about stuff that happened after 'Not Fade Away', which clashes with later comics. And its place in the continuity is unclear - it FEELS like it was written to be post-NFA, but because of ATF, these comics had to happen before NFA. I can't recall any specific examples right now, though... It wasn't that bad, IIRC.

    Oh, trust me, you're not alone. You're safely in the majority.

    You're absolutely right about it being DIFFERENT, but that's something that I loved about it - it wasn't just a nostalgic cash-in, it actually took the story to new places in a big way.

    Angel's characterization in season 8 actually makes a lot of sense to me, given what he last did on the show, in 'NFA' - you know, when he murdered people and mind-raped people and all that.

    That said, I would agree that Angel was mostly used as a tool of the story in season 8, and not as his own character. Season 8 is the story of Buffy and Willow and Xander and Faith and all the others, and not the story of Angel. Which doesn't bother me at all, because I never really cared about Angel, but I can see how that could bother others.

    And everyone else was PERFECTLY in-character, IMO. Was there anything specific that bothered you about Buffy, or Willow, or Xander, or any of the others in season 8?

    And I definitely think that there was a ton of depth to season 8. I wrote a whole essay about it!
    Article - Shameless Season 8 Apologism, part 1: Season 8 is essentially 'The Dark Knight'
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2017
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  13. Geobubbles

    Geobubbles Can I play with the puppy?

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    Black Thorn
    I have to agree with @Mylie on some parts. When I first started reading season 8 I was like what the shit is going on but then it got a lot better if I didn't take it too seriously. I think the whole Twilight story is just completely weird and I thought If I read the angel comics it would explain it a bit more but it was just a buffy season 8 thing.. It just wasn't like Angel at all. After the fall was so in character with Angel and I really enjoyed it and then it went to that? Literally f***ing a new world into existence seriously? I can deal with the bug ship because I've now read the Spike series comics, I can deal with Dawn changing into things because it made for great humour but the whole Twilight thing...
    Some parts I really loved, the Dracula story line, the Harmony Bites parts, Andrew was exactly as he was on the TV show and it was amazing. But I felt even Buffy was out of character as well. I know she was really lonely but I cannot imagine her going after Xander if he got with Dawn on the TV Show, I can't imagine her getting with Angel at all considering he killed so many of her girls and then after they f*** a whole new world into existence she starts thinking about kissing spike straight after that? But over-all I did enjoy it and I'm really enjoying the start of Season 9 with Buffy and Spike bonding with her being the Buffybot :)
     
  14. The Ferg

    The Ferg Mine is an evil laugh!

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    I really loved Season 8. I definitely can see the numerous faults, and I don't blame anyone for not liking it, but I think there's some really good stuff going on in that season. To be fair though, I'm slightly biased. I have a strange relationship with S8... It was basically the season that really got me into the show. I had watched a few episodes in the morning before school, and I had bought S1 and 6 on DVD, but I wasn't a huge fan until BS8 #1 came out. Hell, I wasn't even a comic fan until then either, and now I'm an addict.
    Season 8 definitely went a tad too far... Some of that 'weird' stuff was just asinine. However, I disagree that it didn't feel like the same world as the show though. Maybe this is just a side-effect of my reading S8 before most of the show, but I think it felt like a natural progression of the show. It was exactly how I would've expected Buffy and her environment to turn out after the events of Chosen.

    And totally disagree on this point as well... at least the first part. I can hear the actor's voices in my head every time I read the series. Angel's characterization is a whole other story though. I just can't see him acting the way he did. BS8 might have had to sacrifice a bit of Angel, but I think it worked for Buffy's story. Weirdly, I don't even think Christos Gage has a very good grasp on Angel's voice in A&FS9 either. He's great with everyone else, but I just don't hear David Boreanaz.
    As for the story, I think the first half was pretty spectacular. It didn't really go anywhere, but every arc had some significant character growth going on. After that I just think it got way to overblown and ridiculous. I honestly kind of dig the idea of Twilight, and Buffy and Angel being literal soulmates, but it's just so weird and off-the-wall. Is there really not a better idea out there?

    I LOVE Wolves at the Gate. It's in my top 25 Buffy episodes/arcs. Just out of curiosity, can you elaborate on your thoughts on each arc? No need to go too into detail, just wondering how you felt about the quality of the opener, finale, and Time of Your Life specifically.
     
  15. Priceless

    Priceless She doesn't just fight evil, she redeems it

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    When I first read it I hated it too, for all the reasons you've mentioned. Then I gave it some time an read it again, and it was better than I remembered. You know what's coming so the surprise isn't there, or the disappointment. I'd say give it a while then re read it and I think you'll enjoy it more.
     
  16. Mylie

    Mylie Scooby

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    @Guy, I read New Rules too (I need to continue season 10) and loved it! Hopefully I'll love the rest of season 10 as much. Thank you for your post on season 8. I do want to enjoy it more so I'll read your essay tonight after school.

    @TheFerg, Angel was the one who bugged me the most but I remember it being a general feeling too. Dawn's season 7 character development being ignored also annoyed me but for the rest, I'd have to reread it again because once the twilight reveal happened, my mind started to block a lot of it. I was so annoyed I almost stopped reading the comics all-together. Maybe once I catch up on the seasons, I'll give it a shot and go into details as to what I love/don't love about it.
     
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  17. Geobubbles

    Geobubbles Can I play with the puppy?

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    Black Thorn
    Update on my progress. I've legit only been reading comics the past few days.
    I have now finished Buffy season 8 & 9, Angel After the Fall, Spike After the Fall, Angel Last Angel in Hell, Spike Alone Together Now and Stranger Things, Willow Wonderland and the Riley one off and Spike A Dark Place. I think I've done pretty well in the past few days haha. Next up is Angel and Faith, and Season 10! :)
     
  18. The Ferg

    The Ferg Mine is an evil laugh!

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    Holy crap, you've been going crazy! That's over a hundred issues!
    Any thoughts you're needing to get out? Which were your favorites? Did you think of of them sucked? You're going to love Angel & Faith!
     
  19. Geobubbles

    Geobubbles Can I play with the puppy?

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    Black Thorn
    Favourites would have to be the Spike Alone Together now and Stranger things just because they made a Twilight movie out of him and it had Willow and Dru I just really liked it. Last Angel in Hell was amazing I enjoyed that a lot too. I really liked the Spike A Dark Place as well because the bugs were just so sweet to him I thought it was adorable.
    Season 8 I really didn't mind too much its just the Twilight stuff that was a but silly but overall I enjoyed it. Season 9 I feel was more enjoyable because I really liked the Illyria crossover, every time she comes in I can picture her voice perfectly and then there was a scene of her and Wesley the "would you like me to lie to you now" and I just melted into a puddle haha. Overall I don't think I've been bored reading a comic yet except maybe the Riley one off but it wasn't big so it doesn't matter too much. I found a website that had a few more different ones on there which has been amazing and I have access to the one where Spike turns into a puppet so I can't wait to read that, maybe as a break after Angel and Faith :)
     
  20. Mylie

    Mylie Scooby

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    You're making me feel like such an underachiever lol. I need to up my game! :)