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What Angel comics are necessary

Discussion in 'Comics' started by Geobubbles, Feb 16, 2017.

  1. Geobubbles

    Geobubbles Can I play with the puppy?

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    Black Thorn
    I'm sorry hahaha, I've been staying up until 4am most nights just reading. I'm so glad that someone posted the website where you can read them for free on BB. I never thought I'd get a chance because they're so expensive and they're so much of them but now that I have access to them I just can't stop haha (plus I'm still on uni holidays so I have a fair bit of time on my hands) :)
     
  2. zianna

    zianna Townie

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    The only canon comics are
    Angel after the fall (vol 1-4)
    Buffy S8-11
    Angel and Faith S9-10
    Angel S11
    Spike: A Dark Place
    Willow: Wonderland

    Everything else is NOT canon and the only difference from a fanfic is that people got payed to write it.
     
  3. VisionBoy

    VisionBoy Scooby

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    Sineya
    I left it at After the Fall and felt completely satisfied.

    I have Illyria and Angel & Faith, but I kinda view those as separate, even though they're technically Angel titles.
     
  4. The Ferg

    The Ferg Mine is an evil laugh!

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    Ok first of all, you're missing a few. Fray, Tales of the Slayers, and Tales of the Vampires are 100% canon. They're written by Whedon after all. Others include The Origin, which Whedon has said "CAN pretty much be accepted as canonical," and Spike (8-issue IDW series). Spike ties directly into BS8 and Brian Lynch said, "Yes, it's canon, yes, it matters, and yes, it's the best SPIKE story I've told."

    This is just ridiculous for a few reasons. First of all, and most importantly, every single Buffyverse comic script (at least published by Dark Horse; not sure about IDW) was read and approved for publication by Whedon's team. Now that doesn't mean that they all magically become canon, but it does mean that it's not just "fanfic."
    Secondly, there are a whole bunch of comics that are, at the very least, debatably canon. Canonicity in the Buffyverse comics is actually a point of contention and debate amongst the community. Angel: Long Night's Journey was written by Joss Whedon himself, for example. Ring of Fire, Haunted, Reunion, the Jonathan one-shot, Double Cross, and Bad Dog were written by either Jane Espenson or Doug Petrie. Again, that doesn't magically make them canon, but I think it at least warrants speculation. The final big example is Brian Lynch and Franco Urru's work. The two stories that came before AtF, Asylum and Shadow Puppets, were lauded by Whedon and landed Lynch the AtF job in the first place. On top of that, the character of Betta George is brought directly into the official canon, and the events of Asylum are alluded to a few times in AtF I think. Spike: After The Fall might as well be canon. In the After The Fall "universe," the events in Spike: AtF definitely for sure happened. I've already mentioned Lynch's final Spike series being official canon, and I definitely think that lends a little credence to the rest of his stuff being canon as well. Honestly, I think everything Brian Lynch wrote might as well be considered canon, including his Drusilla story and Boys and Their Toys. Seeing as none of these contradict the shows at all, I don't see any reason for them not to be canon. Just to be clear, I am completely aware that I have my own head-canon going on. I definitely stretch the bounds of canonicity a little bit, but I guess what I'm trying to say is that there's no need to just write off hundreds of stories just because you consider them fanfic.
     
  5. Geobubbles

    Geobubbles Can I play with the puppy?

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    Black Thorn
    And honestly who cares if its considered cannon or not, as long as they stay true to the characters, you get to experience new stories from the Buffyverse whether they're good or bad that's up to for you to decide but I for one and think it's just amazing to be able to relive what it was like the first time I watched Buffy through different stories and a different media :)
     
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  6. zianna

    zianna Townie

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    For the 1st part, you are (somewhat) right, for some reason I blocked out the minis of S8 and Fray.


    So again, the ONLY CANON COMICS ARE
    Fray
    Angel After the Fall (vol 1-4)
    Buffy S8-11
    Angel & Faith S9-10
    Angel S10
    Tales of the Slayers
    Tales of the Vampires
    Spike: A dark Place
    Willow: Wonderland

    And to make a long story short and just in case I'm (again) forgetting another one, the ONLY CANON COMICS are either the ones written by Joss Whedon or the ones sighed by him as an executive producer.

    All the rest are just PAID FANFICS, whether we like them or not.
    Heck, there are stuff, even whole canon comics we disliked but that doesn't change the fact that they are CANON.

    We can enjoy whatever we want. That is the reason why so much Buffyverse fanfics have been written. Many people willing to write, even much more enjoying. But just because we ENJOY something does NOT mean that that is the canon story.
     
  7. Mylie

    Mylie Scooby

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    I don't consider myself a canon expert or anything but wouldn't a story written but Jane Espenson, someone who wrote 23 episodes of BtVS (so actually more than a complete season) and also acted as executive producer for several seasons merit to be considered canon?

    I get Joss is the creator of the show but he didn't create the final product alone.
     
  8. zianna

    zianna Townie

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    All of Espenson's written TV episodes are produced by Joss.
    It is Whedon's story actually, not Espenson's.
    There are writers summits where they discuss and decide what they will tell in the story. The producer has a word in that.

    So if Espenson writes a story without Joss' signature on it, it is not canon.
    It may be good, it maybe even be great and even better than the canon ones, but it won't be canon.
     
  9. The Ferg

    The Ferg Mine is an evil laugh!

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    You just have a very strict definition of canon, and even with that strict definition you're missing stuff. As I've already mentioned Long Night's Journey is written by Whedon, so shouldn't that count as canon? Also, the Spike comics (specifically After The Fall and the 8-issue series) were approved by Whedon. There's no reason for them not to be canon.
    It's cool that everyone has their own view of "official" canon, but I think you're being slightly too specific. In fact, almost every site I tried to find about Buffyverse canon lists Lynch's Spike comics as canon. Both the Wikipedia page and the Buffy Fandom Wikia consider those official as well, and they have a few quotes to back that up.
     
  10. zianna

    zianna Townie

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    Again, the ONLY canon stories are the ones either written or produced by Joss, no matter what any fan written site like wiki say.

    Spike After the Fall is not canon, but it is BASED on canon info.
    Whedon's plan for After the Fall was for 12 issues, what he had discussed and agreed with Lynch, but Lynch wrote almost 25 including Spike after the fall (I dont remember the numbers exactly).
    Lynch actually added a lot of his own things in the story, maybe the reason why only the first 4 volumes were produced by Joss. And even in those 4 volumes he added things that Joss was against like Cordelia's appearance.
    So, if the plan was for 12 issues but 17 were written, imagine how much of it hadn't been approved by Joss before. So even more, imagine in 25 issues how much of it is Joss inspired and how much is by Lynch...

    I have read that Joss said that Spike After the Fall is canon, but I have never found an interview in which he said that. If you have it, please share. That "quote" to me it looks more like fan made, mouth by mouth..
     
  11. The Ferg

    The Ferg Mine is an evil laugh!

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    Well first of all, Brian Lynch didn't continue on with Vol. 5. He came back for a few short stories in Vol. 6, but that was it. The series went on for 9 volumes. No one is really arguing that anything by Lynch is canon, besides Spike and Spike: AtF. I personally consider all of Lynch's stories canon, but I know that's not "official."
    And on the topic of "official" canon, I just have to say that there really is no such thing. Whedon has never come out and officially stated what is and isn't canon. I think that anything written by the show's writers (including Brian Lynch) should be considered officially canon, especially the stuff that takes place after the shows. You think that the definition of canon should very strictly apply only stories with Whedon's name on it. Some people think that anything that doesn't contradict the shows is canon. It's all up in the air and dependent on the each individual fan.

    In regards to Spike: AtF, Brian lynch had this to say:
    "The series is information and stories that were going to be inferred/referenced/glimpsed at in ANGEL: AFTER THE FALL. Spike's situation in that was one Joss and I discussed, now I'm fleshing it out and adding new wrinkles to it."
    I was adamant that we get Joss' blessing on telling Spike's story or else I wasn't going to do it. He was for it, I attempted a script, at any point ready to stop if it felt like filler or lazy or unnecessary. I wasn't for doing a spin-off, but a few pages in it was apparent this was going to work beyond any Spike story we've told."
    "SPIKE:ATF tells a story that was going to be talked about and seen in the very canon ANGEL:ATF but instead builds on it and fleshes it out, that's pretty much canon."

    Spike, is a little fuzzier, but Lynch did say in that quote above that it IS canon. Granted, he's not as good of a source as Whedon, but the fact that it also ties directly into Twilight/Last Gleaming is good enough for me.

    EDIT:
    IDW said this, in regards the continuing adventures of Angel and Spike, post-AtF.
    "Under the direction of BUFFY and ANGEL creator Joss Whedon, all parties are working together for as seamless a transition as possible. The companies have been coordinating storylines in both Dark Horse's BUFFY and IDW's ANGEL, creating a greater sense of cohesion and cooperation to ensure that this transition is true to both ongoing storylines and to the faithful fans of both series."
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2017