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What are your issues with Riley?

Discussion in 'Season 4' started by Merrick, Mar 19, 2014.

  1. jom

    jom Potential

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    Emotional intensity?, i thought Buffy was very hot for Riley, so i really dont know what you mean. The only secret that i recall is she didnt tell Riley about Angel, but i dont see that as a secret, she just didnt talk about her ex to her new lover, seems normal to me.
    --- Double Post Merged, Feb 26, 2015, Original Post Date: Feb 26, 2015 ---
    Look Riley had it good, too good if you ask me. He just messed everything up. He was accustomed on being the strongest one, the leader, and when he got with Buffy he became very insecure.
     
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  2. Halfrek

    Halfrek Townie

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    I actually always liked Riley. I know he's a poorly developed character and I think even the writers realised he wasn't going to be popular after Angel but in reality all he is is a pretty nice down to earth guy who met someone who had a hell of a lot of weird, difficult stuff in her life. I always hear of fans saying he always has a go at Buffy or acts like a child but really? Aren't we all guilty of doing that? I actually think he was pretty damn patient and understanding considering Buffy can be a very withdrawn and difficult personality (understandably). He was naive and cute in parts, arguably a little annoying, but I think every character has had their fair share of being annoying over the series.

    The problem with Riley is that if he was a real person he's just too damn perfect. He's too two dimensional, especially for a show like Buffy. He doesn't fit into the show's framework of having exciting, troubled and burdened characters. It's almost as if he walked out of Dawson's Creek straight into a Joss show. He's just a disposable boyfriend that never offered much of anything. But that doesn't mean he's a horrible character. He's a poorly written boring character but not bad. He's a nice guy and even if that's all he was ever meant to be...I don't really understand all the hate. He's not Angel, so what...he's not supposed to be. He stuck by Buffy a lot, he had a good buddy relationship with Xander, could be relied upon to help out and was great with Joyce and Dawn. He's a nice person and I just can't hate him even if he's forgettable.

    All in all I was glad in season 6 to see he had moved on. Buffy and Riley weren't meant to be together but they had an impact on eachother's lives. He helped her realise there are good guys out there who can offer love and stability and wont leave and give up on her, he gave her normality for once in her life. She gave him excitement, something that deviated from his world and showed him a kind of self leadership he hadn't known in the army. I was glad he was happy (albeit it slightly annoyed that it was rubbed in Buffy's face) and got away from Sunnydale. It was a nice send off to a nice character.
     
  3. The Bronze

    The Bronze Rogue Demon Hunter

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    Black Thorn
    While I agree with most of your post I'm not sure this makes any sense since Riley did leave and give up on her.
     
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  4. Halfrek

    Halfrek Townie

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    Point made :p But he was good to her and stayed when she pushed him away a lot. When she was unsure about being with someone again he stuck by her and didn't give up and gave her a reason to trust him and give it a go. I think in the end it was never going to work and really he made the decision Buffy would inevitably make herself. So I never really see it as him giving up on her, I see it as him doing what they both knew was going to happen. If that makes sense lol.
     
  5. bespangeled

    bespangeled Scooby

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    Black Thorn
    Warning - rape is a trigger issue here. I have worked in counseling in this area, and have heard some pretty horrific things from people I deeply care about.

    Yes, rape is lack of informed consent but it is also penetration in some sexual area. Sexual assault covers a lot of ground in there - for example if an adult feels your breasts, it is not rape. It is assault. It is an assault even if a girl or boy is willing because the victim is unable to give informed consent. Legally - and yes that is impossible while factoring in a vampire lifespan - but legally Angel was guilty of a whole raft of sex crimes. The fact that under-age Buffy consented is not material. The fact that Angel did not intend to commit rape is immaterial. Had Joyce decided to press charges, Angel would have been convicted. (Personally - I see them as having a consensual relationship, just talking legalities here.)
    http://www.cga.ct.gov/2003/olrdata/jud/rpt/2003-R-0376.htm

    Standing in front of someone is legal - beating them to a pulp is not. To be honest, Buffy would have been charged with aggravated assault and battery in the alley way, given the fact that she beat Spike to the point that he was unable to stand and move. By CA law, the AR would be misdemeanor or felony sexual battery. (FYI - battery is more serious than assault) And intent has nothing to do with it - action is all that counts. There are no thought police out there who call you on having a bad intent when nothing happens. If you kill someone accidentally you don't get a free ride. Intent is a difference between murder and manslaughter, but if you intend harm and do nothing, you aren't guilty of bad intention and there is no prison for you.

    This is way off topic so I think we either need a new thread or need to drop this.

    As for Buffy opening up to people who don't succeed in killing her - you may be right. That goes with Faith's comment that patrolling leaves you hungry and horny. Once Buffy knows they can't kill her then she probably feels pretty sure she won't accidentally kill them. With Riley - that was part of her fear - she could actually hurt him without intending to. Now give Parker a second go at her - now that she knows him - and I suspect we would have a very bruised Parker with many broken bones.

    So, you guys are stuck in that moldy bunker still....sad. Maybe you can convince one of our guys to fly you out to our island in the pacific. There's plenty of shade for the sunlight impaired.:cool:
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2015
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  6. FaithsFollower

    FaithsFollower Thank Goodness It's Buffy

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    Sineya
    I had high hopes for Riley, even though he seemed to be too damn perfect. He was cute, he was kind, he was polite, and, most important of all, he was HUMAN.

    When it was revealed that he was part of The Initiative, a secret ops department to hunt "hostiles", it was a total let down for me. It had nothing to do with HIM...it had everything to do with his job [and I get that if he were to hang with the Scoobies he'd needed to be quasi-versed in the supernatural but still].
     
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  7. Wesley Pryce

    Wesley Pryce Angel Investigations

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    Black Thorn
    I love Riley
     
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  8. Charmander

    Charmander Potential

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    I really liked Riley to start with, during the process of when they first met and when he first started noticing her. He did look a bit like a member of N'Sync and his appearance made him appropriate for the college season, but his downfall is when he discovers who Buffy really is and his insecurities begin to set in slowly.

    I will say that I always felt that Riley had a (slightly) tighter bond with the Scoobies in a way that Angel didn't. One of my issues with Angel was that he was always interested first and foremost with Buffy (You could argue there are positives to that) but never seemed particularly concerned about her friends, excluding Xander who already had a huge dislike for him. If they ever ran into him he'd always just say that he was looking for Buffy. Meh. For a vampire with unlimited time to kill, I felt that he could have tried to be more involved in other areas of her life. I'm not saying that Riley had a huge role with the Scoobies, but he did seem more interested in the gang, and they should have kept the Willow/Riley friendship going throughout the season. In some ways he could have been the perfect guy for her, because I've never really seen human/vampire relationships as ever having a happy ending. That's why you only ever see them when the human is still a teenager.

    That seemed like a long-winded Angel rant, but my point is that I think Riley was a missed opportunity for a perfect relationship. All she needed was somebody who could grow to understand her and work with her. Riley just always seemed to have issues that Buffy was stronger. And the way they tied up his story arc was just horrible and didn't make him finish in a positive light at all, though maybe that was intentional.
     
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  9. Smile Time

    Smile Time The Scattered One

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    Sineya
    While I am indifferent to Riley, I agree that he was poorly developed and is often overlooked.
     
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  10. Mr Trick

    Mr Trick Scooby

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    Wait? But isn't the reason he is overlooked because he was poorly developed? This is a TV character we are talking about afterall:D
     
  11. Slay me

    Slay me Townie

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    Riley was boring with a capital B. The fact that he rather mindlessly followed Dr. Walsh and the directives of the Initiative doesn't say much about his judgement.
     
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  12. Fenrir

    Fenrir Potential

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    He was a soldier. They're supposed to follow orders and they kind of have to believe their superiors are right. Which isn't hard when you're fighting demons. He argues when they capture Oz if I recall correctly.

    I liked Riley myself. He was a good guy, different from Angel and far more of a team player (before he went off the deep end). There were a lot of interesting possibilities he opened up that were sadly never pursued. That said, I find it hard to countenance the vampire prostitution thing. Seemed very out of character and just a way to split them up without Buffy being the one to do it.
     
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  13. Mr Trick

    Mr Trick Scooby

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    A lot of his character faults in season four can be put down to his training as well as his up bringing to a lesser degree. Whether he learns much of his mistakes is open to question. Where I really lost time for the character was with his treatment of Buffy in S5.
     
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  14. Squidprint

    Squidprint Townie

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    I agree. I actually really liked the concept of Riley and of the Initiative as a whole. I just think they ended up being poorly executed for various reasons. I think my major issue with Riley comes down more to the acting ability of Marc Blucas rather than his actual character. He's not a terrible actor, I just think he's... off... bland maybe?

    While his treatment of Buffy is pretty terrible, and maybe out of character for the old Riley, I think it's believable that he would descend into dark times post-Initiative. After being a military super soldier, it's natural he would feel lost after leaving and reverting back to a normal guy. Also, I forget, is his withdrawal from the drugs he was on explored at all? Who knows what the long term psychological effects of something like that is. With all that in mind the vampire prostitution thing ends up being an effective "rock bottom" for me.
     
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  15. Mr Trick

    Mr Trick Scooby

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    Think its a mix of the two. Blucas is too bland, and also the look is just wrong for the character. I mean its a bit like casting James Van Der Beek as a sensitive, boy next door who loves Spielberg movies....oh yeah I forgot they actually did that;) But after the first half of season 4 the writing of Riley is bad. Even with the limitians of the actor they could had done more with him after a promising debut.

    Think its a bit more than that though. I mean he really is self-indulgent in season five, and when Buffy is going through a bad time with her Mum he tries to make it about him. Then after being the one to be unfaithful Riley tries to blame it on Buffy and gives her an ultimentum.
     
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  16. Whitecandy

    Whitecandy Townie

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    --- Double Post Merged, Jun 26, 2016 ---
    I agree with the meeting and marrying Sam within a year being really odd. Sam tells Buffy when they are on patrol that it took a year for Riley to get over her, so she is saying she married him knowing full well that he was not over his ex? Who does that, especially such a strong woman as Sam is portrayed to be. The whole Riley/Sam storyline upset me a lot, and I agree with you that if Sam was just his girlfriend it would have made a lot more sense. I really could not see Riley being that serious with anyone let alone marrying them within a year especially with how things ended with him and Buffy. Neither of them would have had time to get closure as they both wanted to try again but missed the opportunity. Sorry for the rant but this really annoyed me!
     
    Ethan Reigns: A lot of things in Season 6 don't make any sense.
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  17. brittles

    brittles Scooby

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    Sineya
    I love Riley! It's so interesting to hear how so many people dislike him or are indifferent to him. I personally love his character. Sometimes he gets a little annoying with his whole "demons bad, people good" mindset but that's just what he's been taught and it's all he's known. When Buffy makes him see that this isn't always the case he does make an effort to see a different side of things. I feel bad for him actually. He's always there when Buffy needs him and she kind of just takes him for granted. This is the least tumultuous relationship we've seen her in. He doesn't use her or go evil when they have sex. I guess people see this as boring because it's so conventional compared to what she's usually dealing with. Their breakup was HORRIBLE! So sad! Personally I've missed his character. I think he added a certain warmth and and down to earth vibe to the show. He wasn't bad to look at either. Definitely pro-Riley.
     
  18. LeeJones41

    LeeJones41 Townie

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    I have always liked Riley. Always. I've always enjoyed Marc Blucas' portrayal of him, especially that off-kilter sense of humor that seemed to strike every once in a while. I'm aware that Riley had his personal flaws. Who didn't on that show? None of the other characters - including Buffy - were perfect. Heck, they were far from perfect. I never understood why so many fans had demanded that Riley be perfect.

    Were Buffy and Riley right for each other? No. To me, their personalities were too similar. Many people have pointed out Riley's conservative or black-and-white traits. Well, I've noticed that the Scoobies were equally guilty in their own ways. Also, both Buffy and Riley both possessed introverted traits that made communication between them almost impossible. They were really better off as friends. I once wrote an essay about why their relationship had failed, but I don't know if I would be able to post it on this message board.
     
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  19. DeadlyDuo

    DeadlyDuo Scooby

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    I think the main problem with Riley is that his character was based around the initiative storyline which didn't make sense.

    All the initiative soldiers were living on campus, so did the military own UC Sunnydale? Are the soldiers meant to be all students, part of staff, etc?

    Riley's introduced as Walsh's TA yet is dating a student which seems like it would cross some sort of professional boundary. Also how can the faculty guarantee that he's marking Buffy's papers fairly and not favourably just because he's banging her?

    Assuming Riley isn't that much older than Buffy (he doesn't look it) and he's only TAing to earn extra credit for whatever course he's doing, then how can he have enough experience to lead a military team?

    Both of Riley's roles don't mesh. Take away the initiative aspect and RIley actually seems to make more sense.
     
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  20. BuffyBot22

    BuffyBot22 Potential

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    OMG THIS! Yes, just another reason why Angel was the only guy I could ever really ship Buffy with. He loved her for her. He didn't idolize her. The only time we ever see obsessed with her is when he was Angelus. Not once is he portrayed as obsessed with her as Angel, just that he is in love with her.