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Question What if Buffy tried to R*pe Spike?

Discussion in 'Season 6' started by smgismyqueenjpg, Jun 28, 2017.

  1. RomanticSoul

    RomanticSoul I AM GROOT

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    But Spike is also the slowest healing vampire ever. I mean seriously, all the way back in S2 it took forever for the burns to be gone and for him to walk again. :p

    Why not? Considering how hard Tim Minear over on Angel was fighting for 'Angel rapes Darla' during the Beige Arc, clearly ME is not above putting their lead character in that place. And since I don't think Angel(us) could ever rape Darla because she wants him no matter how (similar to Buffy/Spike), can you imagine how truly horrifying such a scene would have to be to make it believably a rape scene?

    Part of Buffy/Spike and how it went down was after all drawing from a real life experience of one of the staff (Marti Noxon's I think) where a woman forced herself on a man. So technically Buffy would/should have ended up as the attempted rapist. Except the writers all got their wires crossed in this whole story and made a giant mess out of it. And I have seen plenty of fans over the years accuse Buffy of attempted in S6.
     
  2. Dora

    Dora Potential

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    This thread is crazy !!
    A women cannot force herself on a man...forget drugs, forget bondage, forget sticking foreign objects in places . A woman cannot just meet a male stranger in the street and force herself on him as male could a female , it does not happen!
    The Marti Noxious attempting to get back with a ex by using sex did not mean attacking him in his bathroom forcing him onto the floor trying to rip off his clothes and force his penis or any part of his anatomy inside of her.....no that was Spike trying to rape Buffy
    There are two distinct groups that post on here People that like the show Buffy the vampire Slayer and those that like Spike first and the show second
    This whole tread appears to be trying to make Buffy as bad as Spike
    A lot of the problem rests completely at the feet of James masters, he freely admits that when he was supposed to be bad he played the whole thing for sympathy , he said that they had Spike trying to kill again to rape Buffy trying to get the audience to hate him but he played it sympathetic to Spike and they could not understand why no one disliked Spike..... he says he did it to keep his job. I think this was one of the problem's in season seven , DB had two distinct characters Angel and Angelus, JM had played the evil Spike so that Audiences felt for him that when he was souled there was no where for him to go with the character , the only difference between a un souled Spike and a souled Spike was he was not so mean to Buffy
    I liked the Character Spike That was up unto he started Stalking , pantie stealing, sex toy making, sexual abuse and attempted rape of a Mentally ill Buffy....this Spike fans see as love ?
    I was horrified to find out recently that SMG gets death threats !! whats wrong with these people ?
    James Marsters said recently Spike was evil and you do not want evil in your life.....
    As for trying to bring our hero down to Spikes level by rape......Buffy is a hero ...... Spike a evil murdering, selfish, demon...I can't see the comparison

    Waiting for flack
     
    brinkster130: This is not true.
  3. Blaze

    Blaze Let it Burn

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    Black Thorn
    I can't believe people think female on male rape doesn't exist. This is why rape culture and victim blaming is so prevelant in our society. I think there's a big lack of education on the topic, these things need to be thought in schools and in sex education classes.
     
  4. Stoney

    Stoney Spiked!

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    There is clear differentiation between Spike souled and unsouled, he doesn't and wouldn't behave the same way when souled as he had unsouled. He struggles with becoming souled and dealing with it and this is seen in several conversations with Buffy and later with Angel. He doesn't have the same outlook or personality as Angel so they handle it differently, it is individuality.

    Whatever JM says, they were using Spike from the start to show a vampire with displays of human regard for others. JM contributed of course, but he didn't create the Spike/Dru dynamic, that was there in the text and if his acting didn't reflect what they wanted they would have had him reshoot. The background to Spike, the origination of the character from the human William they developed goes on to explain the individuality just the same as the background does for any of the vamps we get to know something of, including Angel. But there are multiple threads discussing this. The different responses to being souled between Spike and Angel follow their individuality and the paths they walked to get where they were logically. They both gain emotional depth and moral conscience when they become souled and they both struggle but try to be heroes and help others.

    This thread isn't about bringing Buffy down or excusing Spike's actions unsouled. In fact, I can't remember reading anyone here excusing Spike's unsouled behaviour or failing to be against his actions in trying to rape Buffy. Spike wasn't good boyfriend material unsouled, no matter what his intentions/motivations were, he was still unsouled, selfish and therefore limited. JM has always supported that this was what the audience were meant to be reminded of, were meant to see in S6. JM has also always said that with time, once souled, Spike could be (and is in the current season).
     
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  5. The Bronze

    The Bronze Rogue Demon Hunter

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    Black Thorn
    You have a search engine right?

    South African man ‘gang raped’ by women

    Two men forced to have sex with female rapists in Zimbabwe | Daily Mail Online

    Female ‘rapists’ back on the prowl | The Herald

    Why Are so Many Women Raping Boys? Research into female perpetrated sexual violence - Canadian Association for Equality

    5 Bizarre Realities of Being a Man Who Was Raped by a Woman
     
  6. Dora

    Dora Potential

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    Every one, is tied down, drugged , or at gun point, or multiple women, not one is just a sudden single attack by a female on a male so don't count .......don't you read .......the point was Buffy raping, Spike could not happen with out one or more the points you raised.....My whole point is that a single man can rape a woman with out the need of drugs , rope , gun, or gangs not that the fact a woman can rape a man
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2017
  7. The Bronze

    The Bronze Rogue Demon Hunter

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    Black Thorn
    That might make even less sense after clarification. You are aware that a female weight lifter for example would be perfectly capable of over powering the average man?
     
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  8. Blaze

    Blaze Let it Burn

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    Black Thorn
    If the point is Buffy raping Spike than you have to keep in mind that Buffy is the slayer and can easily overpower Spike. So you can't make that argument. And yes, it happens in real life that a single female rapes a male without drugs and guns.
     
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  9. Athene

    Athene Scooby

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    I think what everyone means is not that women can't rape men, it's just that generally it's so much harder for women to rape men. That's a fact.
    I mean a man can genuinely rape a woman whenever he wants because he's simply stronger. Even in the Spike/Buffy attempted rape scene, even though Buffy is stronger than Spike she couldn't throw him off her for a while because 1. She's just had her injured back slammed into a bathtub. 2. She's afraid.
    --- Double Post Merged, Jun 30, 2017 ---
    Not to mention I'd imagine it hurts more to have something forced in you rather than on you. Not that I mean to discredit how painful it must be for a man to get raped, I'm just saying that also plays a part into why women getting raped by men is discussed more. But I'm all for gender equality, it's obviously horrible to get raped whatever sex you are.
     
  10. Blaze

    Blaze Let it Burn

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    Black Thorn
    The argument just doesn't work here though, because Spike is weaker than Buffy. Like you said, sometimes fear plays a big part. People can have 3 reactions. Fight, flight, or do nothing. Doing nothing is actually way more common than people think. In extreme situations like these, people tend to go in shock, and possibly dissociate. This is as valid of a defense mechanism as fighting or fleeing. That makes it entirely possible that someone can get raped by a person who is physically weaker than they are.

    It's also the reason why so many rape victim are not taken seriously because they didn't fight or scream, or defended themselves.

    People are literally saying that it would be impossible for Buffy to rape Spike because she's female, not that it would just be harder. And that is just not true.
     
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  11. Athene

    Athene Scooby

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    It's certainly not impossible, just really hard to imagine.
     
  12. Blaze

    Blaze Let it Burn

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    Black Thorn
    That's the thing, for me it's not hard to imagine because Buffy is female. It's hard to imagine because Buffy is Buffy and that's simply not something she could do due to her morals.
     
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  13. DeadlyDuo

    DeadlyDuo Scooby

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    Spike did have an entire church organ collapse on his head which was originally supposed to kill him, so it makes sense that something like that would take a while to heal. I'd probably say he even took the brunt of the impact which protected Dru enough for her not to be seriously injured. The burns healed faster than the paralysis but he was still up on his feet within 9 episodes. When he got out of his chair at the end of "I only have eyes for you", that was the reveal to the audience that he could walk again, not necessarily when he actually started walking again.

    The point I was trying to make though was that Buffy beat Spike so severely that it took him several episodes to heal. The only comparative injuries he had that took episodes to fully heal were having the church organ dropped on his head and being brutally tortured by Glory. Buffy can't be painted in a positive light over that incident.

    That is a dangerous way to think and is a reason why many male rapes go unreported. It also blames the victim and dismisses the traumatic experience they went through.

    There's also the fear for the man that if he fights back and injures the female, then she might go to the police and claim that he attacked her and she's got injuries to "prove" it.
     
    Blaze: exactly
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  14. RomanticSoul

    RomanticSoul I AM GROOT

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    But this reason, shock which makes you immobile, is exactly why I can't stand some Spike fans argument of 'Spike could never rape Buffy because she is stronger so she can always fight him off'. It doesn't matter how strong someone is physically because if you are immobilized by shock then whatever strenght you have doesn't matter.

    Women can absolutely rape men. However that usually needs extreme circumstances. Whether that's gang rape, tied up, held at gunpoint. Or a teacher exploiting her position. Or an adult woman rapes a boy.

    An average woman walking down the street can't rape an average man crossing her path. Women are physically weaker. A man can easily grab a woman on the street.
     
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  15. DeadlyDuo

    DeadlyDuo Scooby

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    A woman can easily kick a man in the balls to disable him, doesn't mean that's always what happens. We're not talking about a woman just grabbing a man off the street, we're talking about how a woman can force herself on a man against his will which Dora is saying is impossible unless the man "wants it".
     
  16. Dora

    Dora Potential

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    Kicking a guy in the balls will be detrimental as foreplay....We are talking about about a single woman grabbing a man off the street and forcing him to have sex , not tied up ,no gang , no gun ,no drugs , no hypnotist , just a single women passing a single man in the street but a man can grab a woman and force himself on her, A woman can not do that and Buffy could not and would not do that to Spike
     
  17. Blaze

    Blaze Let it Burn

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    Black Thorn
    Completely agree with this.

    Doesn't that go a bit against what you said in the first paragraph? You were just saying that being stronger doesn't mean you can't get raped by someone weaker than you, but now you say that women being weak mean they can't rape a man? Or did you mean only in the case where a woman would rape a stranger from the street.

    We have to understand that the majority of rapes aren't strangers grabbing people off the street. Yes, this can happen, but it's very low in incidence in comparison to people knowing, or at least interacting with the rapist prior to the rape.

    A large portion of the men that get raped are actually raped by their girlfriend. I have no exact statistic because man don't report those types of rape, and I understand why they don't going by the types of response seen in this thread. Unfortunately the police would likely not take them seriously, and neither would society. But I've read enough survivor stories, as well as hearing a few stories from people I know, to know that this happens more than we think. Being a man abused in a relationship, including sexual abuse, can absolutely happen. Often times in combination with other types of abuse as well, like physical and mental. And man victim of abuse stay in the relationship for the same reason women being abused have a hard time leaving.

    @Dora Also, why are we even arguing about a random woman picking a man off the streets? We are literally talking about Buffy who was in a relationship with Spike at the time. It's completely different than a random woman picking a random guy off the street. See my last paragraph about how sexual abuse can still occur in a relationship.
     
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  18. Dora

    Dora Potential

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    female weight lifters would probably be more interest in Buffy,..... but this is extreme again, I trust we are talking Penis / virginal rape first she would have to overpower him then stimulate him, then hold him down while she rode him...possible I suppose.... don't think I have hard of it , I do hear regular of a Man over powering a women and raping her , I do hear of a woman freezing up during the attack , I do hear of a woman saying no but the male carries on and she does not fight back at all
     
  19. brinkster130

    brinkster130 Riley's BFF Staff Member

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    Sineya
    Comments like this are unnecessary. Please figure out a way to express your opinions without taking cheap shots at certain communities.
     
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  20. GraceK

    GraceK Grr Arrg

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    This is getting into seriously disturbing territory. Anyone, male or female can be a victim of rape, and I don't see why it matters whose stronger . Men are physically stronger the MAJORITY of the time, but there are some seriously strong women out there. Not to mention women in positions of power that can coerce or force a man to have sex, just as a man can to an underling. Just because a woman most likely cannot grab a man off the street and force him into inter course doesn't make male rape Impossible. Also, the majority of the time , a man doesn't just grab a woman off the street like a cave bear, he usually has a weapon so she's too afraid to fight back. Cause woman CAN fight off a male, we aren't helpless kittens. Jesus how insulting is to think that a woman , just by virtue of being a woman and physically weaker, is just a deer waiting to be picked off???

    It's this kind of stigma against male rape victims that make them not report it, that creates a society of emotionally damaged men cause they are looked down on for having feelings.

    Not to mention, that a predator is a predator. Rape isn't always about sex, it's about dominance and violence, and control. So a predatory WOMAN absolutely can prey on a man, especially the weak or disabled, or young cause that's what she gets off on. Just as a man would.

    Back on topic, Bufffy wouldn't try to rape Spike cause as many flaws as she has, she is not a monster, or a predator in that sense. Could she ? Yes, cause she's STRONGER than him, but she wouldn't.