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What is the main reason why you hate season 4?

Discussion in 'Season 4' started by Joshua, Feb 23, 2012.

  1. fresley93

    fresley93 Potential

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    I would have to rank the seasons like this.

    1. Season 2
    2. Season 3
    3. Season 5
    4. Season 1
    5. Season 7
    6. Season 4
    7. Season 6
     
  2. Wesley Pryce

    Wesley Pryce Angel Investigations

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    Black Thorn
    And let me amend something i said earlier,that season seven was most skipable.I would actually agree that season 1,not season seven,is the most skipable season. But i still think season one is a bit better than season seven. I know that doesn't make any sense :D i just think season one is better because at least it focuses on the core four scoobies :)
     
    Robb Stark: HEY! S1 is awesome, you hear? AWESOME!
  3. Xin Rong

    Xin Rong Killed by Dissertation

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    To be fair, it didn't really have a choice, it was the first season afterall :)
     
  4. fresley93

    fresley93 Potential

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    That's why Season 2 is my favorite, it takes all of the great things about Season 1 and makes them better.
    Except for what happened to Giles but I guess suffering is a must.
     
  5. thetopher

    thetopher Member of the Church Of Faith

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    Sineya
    Really, I don't hate any of the Seasons of Buffy. They are all good television.

    And if I had to skip a season it wouldn't be S4, it would easily be S6. :(

    S4 has lots of good/great stand alone episodes, and all the characters come out of it relatively intact, still likeable- just as if they've had a relaxing year. They drifted apart and then came back stronger. :)

    But S6 is just horrible.
     
  6. Xin Rong

    Xin Rong Killed by Dissertation

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    S6 is horrible, but because it's overly realistic, too much pain, too much depression, too muany bad choices, which ties into the event and age of the characters.

    I would also never skip a season, as I love them all ,but if I had to delete one, it would be seven
     
  7. fresley93

    fresley93 Potential

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    Season's 6 & 4 share many of the same problems, do they have great episodes, yes of course, but looking at them in total you see this lack of planning and weird character development that seems out of place sometimes.
     
    thetopher: 4 and 6 are the weakest Seasons because of the sense of 'aimlessness' about them.
  8. Xin Rong

    Xin Rong Killed by Dissertation

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    I disagree, the aimlessness refers to character development, I'm assuming, but the gang are incredibly young, despite the age of the actors, so aimlessness is a given

    ---------- Post added at 12:27 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:25 AM ----------

    Also I think that s 4 and 6 are the most character focused seasons, which character's development doesn't make sense?
     
  9. fresley93

    fresley93 Potential

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    I guess I need to make the distinction between in the show and outside.

    Outside the show I thought the writers didn't really have a plan for Season 4, and Season 6 well, they were scrambling after the what was supposed to be the series end.

    For Season 4: Willow's character underwent a transformation that made her a lot more like her vamp double. That character was cool, but you knew where she was coming from with the whole vampire thing, it was like they had switched places. And Giles final descent into irrelevance was not fun.

    For Season 6: Willow completes her transformation, Xander, Anya, Spike, Buffy. Heck, the only character that doesn't seem like they're in a bad fanfic is Dawn.

    I think that the best way to describe season 4, is that it is a collection of one-shots written by the same author. Some good, some bad, but with a kind flailing about that you don't see in the earlier seasons.
     
    thetopher: Good point about S6 and bad fanfic!
  10. thetopher

    thetopher Member of the Church Of Faith

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    Sineya
    S4 does work better if you look at it like a bunch of one-shots. All the best stories are one-shots, right from 'Fear Itself' to 'This Year's Girl'/'Who Are You', they all have very little to do with the actual plot that runs through the Season, the Initiative.

    With S6, there really isn't any plot/direction running through the Season, but the best episodes still feel like stand-alone Buffy episodes. 'Once More With Feeling', 'Tabula Rasa'...um, well to be fair some of the earlier 'Trio-centric' episodes are quite funny ('Flooded/Life Serial), at least before the awfulness of 'Gone' and 'Dead Things' :(

    But that's off topic. S4 lacks direction,
    real character development (which is different in my mind from characterisation- I think Buffy and the other still all act like themselves, they just don't really grow/change for the most part),
    a good Big Bad,
    a hook into the main story arc (In S2 it's Angel, In S3 it's Faith, In S5 it's Dawn...In S4 it's supposed to be Riley, who I really couldn't give much of a toss about at that point.)

    When you can't think of any memorable things to do with half your cast (Giles and Xander and Spike- who's pretty much comic relief up until the final two-parter) then you're in trouble imo. :(
     
    WillowTaraHolic: Yes, I think that the downfall of s4 was lack of planning for the overall plot
  11. thetopher

    thetopher Member of the Church Of Faith

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    Sineya
    "Lyri disagrees: Please don't mock me or my word choice, it's kinda disrespectful. Also, the skippable seasons is anything after S5."

    Yeah, sorry about this. I should've said that I didn't like your tone, not your word choice. You were sounding pretty combatative, y'know, because of your poor word choice. :p

    You could stop watching Buffy after S5, with Buffy dead and about half the character threads left hanging, that's up to you. I prefer some closure to my shows. :)

    S6 and S7 have their faults, no doubt- but things actually happen in them, characters change, grow, screw up, get better, get worse, whatever.

    None of that happens in S4, its a fun little circular where the characters pretty much end up exactly where they were at the start of the season, with a couple of new characters along the way.
     
  12. Buffy Summers

    Buffy Summers Yataro Staff Member

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    Sineya
    Hey, hey, I don't think anybody meant anything derogatory by their comments. We're all friends here, so let's keep it friendly, shall we?

    :)
     
    thetopher: Agreed. Sorry, I think I have to use my emoticons more carefully is all, don't want to offend anybody.
  13. fresley93

    fresley93 Potential

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    Wow "Buffy Summers" you've been on here since '01 that's impressive. What your take on season 4, or did you already post about it and I missed it?

    I think a lot strong reactions to the season, either for or against, is because of Willow, her character has the most changes during the season. Plus there is the great debate, Oz or Tara. It is so crucial to Willow, which one you like more. It's more controversial than the Buffy debate's because Buffy is fairly static character either way, but Willow is different. On either side, her character has to shift to accommodate your preferred pairing.
     
  14. Xin Rong

    Xin Rong Killed by Dissertation

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    I agree, mostly, except with Willow? Her character changes drastically, as Fresley's post points out?
     
  15. thetopher

    thetopher Member of the Church Of Faith

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    Sineya
    Yeah, as I've said before, Willow is the exception. She really is the only one who goes through any significant changes in S4- she experiences real heartache at Oz leaving (and then coming back), gets much better with the magics, and finds new love with Tara.

    It's just that with every other season every character goes through changes and upheaval. S4 is still the most inconsequential.

    And for the record, in S4 I prefered Oz to Tara, but I grew to like her- so I see both sides of that particular debate. :)
     
  16. Xin Rong

    Xin Rong Killed by Dissertation

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    Again I agree, everyone else may change at some point but by they end they just change back, pretty pointless, although I don't hate the season in general, I just think it may lack the substance that other seasons possess.

    I struggle with the Oz/Tara thing: I love them both for completely different reasons.
     
    thetopher: I don't hate Season 4 either, it's just kinda 'meh', good but not great.
  17. fresley93

    fresley93 Potential

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    Same here, I just take issue with the way it was done. "New Moon Rising" had me wondering "Huh?" throughout the episode. As with so much else in that season, I'm not quite what they were trying to do or say.
     
  18. WillowTaraHolic

    WillowTaraHolic Novice Witch

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    If we're talking about Tara and Oz...

    I love Oz a lot, and I wish he were MY boyfriend! (Willow doesn't understand how lucky she was to have such a really cool guy to be with)

    But I like Tara better. I'm not sure why or how, I just do. :) Life is funny that way.
     
  19. fresley93

    fresley93 Potential

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    That's what makes the choice so hard, they're both really cool people. I wish Vamp Willow had stayed, that would have made everything more interesting.
     
  20. Mr Trick

    Mr Trick Scooby

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    Can't agree with this. Xander has the relationship with Anya which is quite a big thing. The season is the start of a big change for the Spike character, the chip thing is a big part of that seasons narrative. Also the interactions with him trying to stir things with the Scoobies are fun too:p Giles is the only one I really agree with.

    The second part of the season may lack more direction than the first half. But in a way you can see the second half as the gang trying to understand where they stand with each other. That might have been another reason for the Riley character to create a bit of a buffer which would ulimately make their friendship stronger by the end of the season.