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What is the main reason why you hate season 4?

Discussion in 'Season 4' started by Joshua, Feb 23, 2012.

  1. fresley93

    fresley93 Potential

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    Yes the season introduces a couple of character's that are great and really stick around (Anya, Tara, Spike)

    But to get back on topic:
    Reasons I dislike season 4.
    1. Giles, his fading away is one of the saddest parts in the season, and nobody notices, his rendition of "Behind Blue Eyes" capture's it perfectly. Just like Buffy, he can't have a life because of who he is and what he does. He's already lost so much (relationships, job, any kind of real support) that it's surprising he stuck around.

    2. Transitions - what happened to Spike (eventually he just becomes pathetic)
    Willow (beginnings of becoming a magic junkie)

    Finally

    3. "New Moon Rising" one of the most tragic episodes. You have a character (Oz) who doesn't want to repeat his past mistakes, he goes out, fixes himself, and comes back. Only to find out that all the work he did and suffering he went through was for nothing (we only got to see Willow's side of things after he left the first time)

    So he does the right thing, only to be punished for it.
     
    thetopher likes this.
  2. thetopher

    thetopher Member of the Church Of Faith

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    Sineya
    Not really, Anya is a cameo in most of the episodes- she's there mostly for comic relief. Only in a couple of episodes does it focus on their relationship to any large degree. It's only in S5 that things start to get serious between them ('The Replacement')

    Spike gets a chip and can't hurt any of them so he kind helps them- and becomes comedic in the process. I don't exactly call that 'development' of his character(especially compared to S5 owards). He doesn't really DO anything when he's on the show apart from comic relief before teaming up with Adam in the last few eps.
     
  3. Mr Trick

    Mr Trick Scooby

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    Yes, but they start building for his change in later seasons. They play on the fact that he still wants to do bad, but can't and so is caught between two stalls. There a lot of nice touches with his character and I remember him playing a bigger role than you. Besides its not like they can just turn him good just like that. There has to be some logical progression and S4 was the start of that.
    --- Double Post Merged, Jan 18, 2015, Original Post Date: Jan 18, 2015 ---
    1. Right but if they address Giles fading away from the gang then doesn't that suggest than that done on purpose rather than just poor writing.

    2. Maybe, becoming pathetic makes Spike a more interesting character as he has to adapt to not being a threat anymore.

    3. Well that is the story they went with that Willow finds herself a new sexual idenity (which is quite realistic in younger people), and if went off then why shouldn't they just focus on Willow's prospective? She is one of the lead characters afterall.
     
  4. bespangeled

    bespangeled Scooby

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    Black Thorn
    I have huge issues with the Initiative which I wish they would have dealt with.

    First - how the hell did they build that huge concrete high tech prison/lab under the college without anyone ever knowing about it? Was it empty until season 4? If not why has no one ever seen any Initiative soldiers in all the patrolling they did - and why has no soldier ever seen Buffy patrol? If it was just starting up then why didn't anyone notice a lack of demons and the presence of large military convoys?

    And why don't they deal with the basic immorality until Oz is captured?

    Giles fading away is sad, and funny (Fort Dicks!). Spike is sort of meh - they didn't know what to do with him really - but it does set a new baseline. In fact, season 4 sets a lot of new baselines. In fact, all it does is reset the characters.

    And I really dislike Riley.
     
  5. Mr Trick

    Mr Trick Scooby

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    Yes, but its a sci-fi/fantasy show so you just have to take a leap of faith. Whats really important is did the storyline work during the actual season?
     
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  6. bespangeled

    bespangeled Scooby

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    Black Thorn
    Too true. And when I bitch about them my daughter says to me Mom, you are watching a show about vampires - and you're bothered by that!

    You should hear me complain about all the hospital scenes with glass IV bottles and nurse in little uniforms with starched caps. Even I know that's ridiculous! :);)
     
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  7. thetopher

    thetopher Member of the Church Of Faith

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    Sineya
    I always figured that the Intitive used some of the existing caves to start their construction- excavated them over the Summer whilst pretending to be some other arm of the government (geological survey, energy company, general environmental study)- and then brought in all the personel through the frat/house and a few of the (unfeasibley large) maintenance tunnels.

    You might as well ask how Bond villains built bases under an active volcano or in outer space- they just do. ;)
     
    bespangeled: Bless Bond for setting a precedent! ;)
  8. AndyWylde

    AndyWylde Townie

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    I don't hate season 4, but it can be a tough one to watch/re-watch. As others have mentioned, I also feel it's a season that "reset" or transitioned some of the characters. It's also the season where you know things are going to get very bad for characters in the near future, all the foreshadowing, their behaviours etc

    I was also completely disinterested in the whole Initiative thing.
     
  9. Anyanka Bunny Killer

    Anyanka Bunny Killer Jotunheim

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    Black Thorn
    I don't hate the entire season...just the episodes with Riley and/or the Initiative.
    I hate Riley with a burning hot, demonic passion. Just looking at him makes me angry.
     
    Mr Trick: I know the feeling.
  10. Mr Trick

    Mr Trick Scooby

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    This maybe you joking, but isn't Riley in every episode?:D
     
  11. Anyanka Bunny Killer

    Anyanka Bunny Killer Jotunheim

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    Black Thorn
    No, he isn't...thank God!! :p
     
  12. Silverspike

    Silverspike Scooby

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    Aww, I liked old Riley and think he gets unfairly ragged on by some of the fandom. I think he was the nearest thing to a decent workable boyfriend for Buffy really.
     
  13. Buffy Summers

    Buffy Summers Yataro Staff Member

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    Sineya
    I definitely like Riley more now than I did the first time around :)
     
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  14. Scary and Veiny

    Scary and Veiny Darth Rosenberg

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    Season 4 is weird for me; I hated the Initiative and hated Adam so it's my least favorite season as Big Bads and story arcs go... but it contained some of my favorite episodes ("Hush", "Fear, Itself", "Something Blue", the bodyswap with Faith two-parter).
     
  15. DeadlyDuo

    DeadlyDuo Scooby

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    Maybe Oz should've communicated his actual intentions. Willow didn't just jump ship, she missed him greatly and used to go to his old room with his stuff to feel closer to him. All of a sudden his stuff vanishes because Oz sent for it, could he not have passed on a message to Willow at the same time? At least along the lines of "I've got some stuff to work out but I intend to come back".

    I kind of like season 4 because it is before all the Spuffy drama. "Something blue" was funny but I don't think Spuffy should've actually happened beyond that. In terms of big bad, Adam isn't as charismatic as other big bads such as the master, Angelus/Drusilla/Spike or Glory. The trio had their humorous moments but they weren't serious big bads. Adam is the weakest of all the big bads on the show. Riley isn't dynamic but I don't think he was intended to be, he was supposed to be that average guy.
     
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  16. VisionBoy

    VisionBoy Scooby

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    Sineya
    The Initiative bug me (I know they're kinda meant to, but still) and Adam could have been handled better in my opinion.

    But I don't hate season 4 at all. In fact when I'm rewatching odd episodes, a lot of them do tend to be season 4 standalones. I liked the college setting, liked Willow's development, Riley has grown on me; I actually think it has plenty going for it.

    I wonder if a bit of a reason for season 4 not having such a good rep is because it's between seasons 3 and 5; two seasons which generally seem to be held in very high regard.
     
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  17. Anyanka Bunny Killer

    Anyanka Bunny Killer Jotunheim

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    Black Thorn
    Same here. After watching the series SEVERAL times, I don't loathe him anymore. Actually, he's not so bad. Though I was a bit annoyed when he showed up later with his wife, negelecting to tell Buffy he was married.
     
    cryptwarmer: seriously, him not telling her he was married and that they didn't want the demon dead were the lamest plot devices. Harlequin romance level pathetic
  18. fresley93

    fresley93 Potential

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    Number 1 reason to dislike Season 4: Willow

    Her character, mid-season, gets removed and replaced by someone or something else with same face as Willow. I disliked the new Willow, thus I disliked the Season.

    As I've posted before, it was like vamp Willow traded places with regular Willow. I liked the latter far more than the former.
     
  19. Dora

    Dora Potential

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    Riley was probably the first victim on the Altar of Spike, without him going Spike would not have been able to Stalk Buffy so effectively,I think Riley just showing up from nowhere is systematic of much of the bad writing in season six,You can hear them now, right we have dug ourselves in a hole with this Spuffy thing and lost almost halve of the viewers, how do we get out of it ../.I know we can have Riley come back , hunting demons, Buffy helps him and he us able to talk to Buffy so she stops the sexual abuse by Spike that so many fans hates . But how does Riley find out about Spike? Mmmm.... I got it we can make Riley happily married making Buffy feel even worse about herself so she runs to Spike, Yes, Yes but why would Riley go to Spikes ? Demon Eggs Spike has got Demon eggs and Riley finds out Spikes got them goes to Spikes crypt catches Buffy and Spike. Fine why would not Buffy not know about the eggs??? Oh bugger better to get JM to take off his shirt again and slow his bum they will not notice how crap this is story line is. Back on post I like all Buffy until season six but the best thing about season 4 was how lovely Sarah looked......
     
    Ethan Reigns: That sounds exactly what happened among the writers. Much as I like Spike, they sacrificed a lot of the show for him.
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  20. LeeJones41

    LeeJones41 Townie

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    I didn't hate Season 4. It's certainly not my least favorite season.
     
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