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Why wasn't anyone ever terrified of The First?

Discussion in 'Season 7' started by Joshua, Jul 18, 2017.

  1. Joshua

    Joshua Huge Spuffy Fan!

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    They were scared of Uber Vamps, Bringers and Caleb. But why not The First?
     
  2. WillowFromBuffy

    WillowFromBuffy "My bowling shoe fetish is not the issue here."

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    They were. Angel and Spike especially.
     
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  3. Last Watcher

    Last Watcher Tweed Icon

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    Sineya
    Because it couldn't really do much except taunt.....once you knew what it was & what it could & couldn't do you could pretty much ignore it. :)
     
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  4. Fool for Buffy

    Fool for Buffy "I wanna see how it ends"

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    Sineya
    It almost got Angel to kill himself, so I think he was pretty scared. It got Andrew to kill Jonathan. It got Dawn seriously screwed up in CWDP. It got Spike to beg for death. It got Faith to sleep with Robin so she must have been so terrified she forgot Robin was a dumbass.
     
    Last Watcher: Okay....Laughed out loud to that last one... :D
    DeadlyDuo: Had to laugh at that last one.
  5. thrasherpix

    thrasherpix Scooby

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    It could've been much more effective than it was. Besides appearing as different people to a lot more, it could do much to keep them from getting any sleep (it also has the power to manipulate dreams, btw, so it can also use their actual sleep time to torment them further) and once they're half-psychotic and on edge, it could mess with them in many other ways. Imagine Buffy giving orders for people to go let the repairmen in (it's not repairmen, it's Bringers), or to go get something (where a demon of some kind awaits for them, perhaps even one that can shape shift to look like the character just killed which starts to kill them from within). It apparently was too bored to do that (and lacking an evil sense of humor), or empowering Caleb took too much out of it so it could only act in small ways...

    Though there should be a power source for it. And maybe it was considered competition by other evil powers that even Wolfram & Hart wouldn't want it around, so the First had to be careful (more scared of its evil competition than of the Slayer, and maybe it was even aware of Jasmine making her/its play not too far away while still in the early stages of its evil plan forcing it to keep an even lower profile)...and perhaps for good reason since Wolfram & Hart is pretty much the reason they won against the First Evil.

    That's right, Buffy, you're more powerful than Evil...as long as an evil law firm motivated by self-interest is willing to help you out. :rolleyes:
     
  6. Smile Time

    Smile Time The Scattered One

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    Sineya
    Because The First can only taunt while the rest actually do things...
     
  7. Last Watcher

    Last Watcher Tweed Icon

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    Sineya
    True, the First could imitate Buffy & get her to issue dangerous orders....but there was an easy way to combat that. Make it a habit to always shake hands or tap
    each other on the shoulder whenever they meet or issue orders.....The First being incorporeal could never get around that....
     
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  8. Athena

    Athena Belinda Staff Member

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    Black Thorn
    I think the problem with the First isn't the powers it has, but rather that the whole build up to the fact it's the First Evil, and the fact we haven't heard about it since Amends, just feels really pointless. I get the whole psychological warfare tactic, but it just comes across as playground taunts. The real heavy hitters come in the form of Caleb, the Bringers and the Turok-Han, which are essentially supposed to just be puppets for the First Evil, and a physical threat is scarier to a group of twenty-somethings than a psychological threat.

    Also, this is a show with great fighting choreography, we want to see Buffy kick ass, not have a heated discussion with something incorporeal that she can't hit in the face and be done with it. :D
     
  9. Triss

    Triss Andrew's momma

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    I partly agree with the above comments, but then again Andrew stood up to it convincingly when it threatened him. Andrew's a weenie so yes, the First is lame and stupid.
     
  10. RomanticSoul

    RomanticSoul I AM GROOT

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    Why would anyone be scared of a villain that Buffy freaking snarked away? And whose planning strategy had clearly devolved into Wile E. Coyote territory. In S7, when the characters are all so damn messed up, all the First had to do was go about it like it did with Angel in S3 and it would have been effective. Constantly bother people and whisper in their ear. Invade their dreams. Possibly get people into each others dreams ala B/A to play people against each other. The First as a villain only works on the level of psychological manipulation because it can't do anything physically. If it doesn't do that however it becomes the lamest villain ever.
     
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  11. DeadlyDuo

    DeadlyDuo Scooby

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    Now I'm just envisioning The First doing this:

     
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  12. DeadlyDuo

    DeadlyDuo Scooby

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    I find the First as Warren hilarious. As he's talking to Andrew when he's trying to get Andrew to kill the pig and Andrew talks about Babe: Pig in the City and Warren just goes "Don't think about Babe".

    The First seems to know enough about films to pass as Warren. Either the First has seen those films to know what its talking about or somehow it actually takes on a little bit of the dead person's personality so it can use their knowledge and memories for its lies.
     
  13. Last Watcher

    Last Watcher Tweed Icon

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    Sineya
    The things it says to Faith (as the Mayor) and Wood (as his mother) indicate that it must be able to access the dead persons memories as well. Also they are careful to state that The First 'can become' any dead person....not just look like them.
     
  14. TriBel

    TriBel Potential

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    I'm not even sure what the first was. As far as I can tell the season is about the embodied consciousness. Is the First actually the unconscious of the person taunted embodied in the dead body of a person close to them - a person they'd loved? Or a person they desired to see again? Did it tell anyone anything they couldn't already know? Did it persuade people to act out their unconscious wishes? Did it play on their unconscious fears? Wood could have had an inkling it was Spike who killed his mother. Had Spike repressed the fact that he enjoys killing or was it his deepest fear. Andrew could have unconsciously wished Jonathan dead. Willow's the only real anomaly (was Amber Benson not available for filming?). The season's more about the uncanny than it is about the monstrous. I watched STSP again today and that's full of uncanny motifs (not having control of your body, being buried alive, the evil eye, coincidence). Then there's the double (Buffy and Spike). I didn't find the First scary but I find the concept of confronting my deepest secrets pretty frightening.
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2017
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  15. DeadlyDuo

    DeadlyDuo Scooby

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    There was a massive flaw in the First's plan. We know it was trying to open the seal using blood and got Andrew to kill Jonathan (though Jonathan was too small and didn't have enough blood). When Andrew refuses to kill anyone else, The First tries to get Andrew to kill the pig. Therefore we know animal blood would work on the seal as well.

    Why did the First not just send Andrew to the butchers to buy a load of animal blood?

    With no killings, it wouldn't draw Buffy's attention. By not taking Spike, it wouldn't have Buffy anywhere near the basement. The First could've released as Many Turok-han as it wanted unnoticed which would've caught the scoobies by surprise and potentially killed them.

    In fact the biggest flaw in the First's plan was to involve Spike in it at all.
     
  16. Priceless

    Priceless I am now

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    Maybe it was the actual act of killing plus the blood that opened the seal, not just the blood? Blood on it's own isn't evil, the evil is in the act of killing.
     
  17. DeadlyDuo

    DeadlyDuo Scooby

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    But Spike's blood was used to open the seal and he wasn't killed?
     
  18. Priceless

    Priceless I am now

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    Because he was already dead? Maybe that's one of the reasons he was used, he could be bled forever.
     
  19. DeadlyDuo

    DeadlyDuo Scooby

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    Then why not just use a random vampire? By involving Spike, The First attracted Buffy's attention when it could've carried its plans out behind closed doors and Buffy would've been none the wiser until the apocalypse came knocking at her door.

    Maybe the First is a secret Spuffy shipper and wanted to set up a situation where Buffy would have to acknowledge her feelings for Spike? :p
     
  20. flow

    flow Male Vampires are stupid. Throw rocks at them

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    Or it wanted to set up a Situation, where Spike had to take his shirt off......

    To get back to topic: I was actually terrified of Spike as the First Evil. He was so cold hearted and evil.....I thought that was scary. Am I the only one ?

    Flow