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Willow's Spell in Same Time, Same Place

Discussion in 'Season 7' started by Priceless, Jul 29, 2017.

  1. Priceless

    Priceless I am now

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    Willow returns to Sunnydale, and is afraid she won't be accepted back, so unintentionally does a spell in which the scoobies cannot see her, but Spike and Anya can. Do you think they are immune to her spell, like Gnarl, or if Willow simply doesn't care how they feel about her, so they aren't covered under the spell?
     
  2. GwenRaiden

    GwenRaiden AKA Apology Girl

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    Black Thorn
    Isn't it because they're not human? Although Willow not caring about them and that being the reason they can see her is quite interesting. Does anyone else in the episode see Willow, who IS human? I can't remember.
     
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  3. Priceless

    Priceless I am now

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    Willow only interacts with the scoobies, so I don't know who else can't see her. She's specifically says Gnarl is immune, and we know her magic can affect non-humans as equally as humans. The spell was accidental, so I wonder if it relies on only her subconcious fears about Buffy, Xander and Dawn.
     
  4. Last Watcher

    Last Watcher Tweed Icon

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    Sineya
    It's a little bit more than not being able to see her though.....at one point she is asleep on the couch & at the same time Buffy is sitting where her head is, and when they finally learn what is happening Anya tells Xander he's standing where she is. So it's not just being invisible, it's some kind of dimensional shift......which makes it all the more strange that Anya can still see her. Also if she has moved herself out of phase with the real world how can she still interact with it & touch things?

    Gnarl says spells don't work on him so that's why he's unaffected, but they never really explain why Anya & Spike are not......
     
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  5. WillowFromBuffy

    WillowFromBuffy "My bowling shoe fetish is not the issue here."

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    There is no reason why Willow would feel shame in front of Anya and Spike, so I always assumed that was it.
     
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  6. Last Watcher

    Last Watcher Tweed Icon

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    Sineya
    I guess there is that. I suppose she never really liked Anya & wouldn't have even known Spike was back in town.
     
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  7. DeadlyDuo

    DeadlyDuo Scooby

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    I always thought it was because Spike and Anya were demons so were unaffected. There has to be some limitations on magic otherwise why doesn't Willow just cast a spell where all vampires and demons in Sunnydale become morally upstanding citizens thus making Buffy's life so much easier? Some spells affect demons, some don't. It helps keep the show running.
     
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  8. Priceless

    Priceless I am now

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    But we know she can do spells on Spike, as in 'Something Blue'. So it can't just be the spell, I think it has to do with the spell being unintentional. Willow didn't do a spell, a spell was done because Willow's subconcious wanted it . . . I think :)
     
  9. DeadlyDuo

    DeadlyDuo Scooby

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    I suppose. New theory: Willow's unintentional spell was directed specifically towards her "friends" which means she never considered Anya or Spike "friends". Whilst this is understandable with Spike, since he kept his distance from the scoobies most of the time, Anya had been interacting with Willow since Season 4. The could be two explanations for this, either Willow NEVER liked Anya or Willow stopped considering Anya a friend when she and Spike slept together. However, it's actually none of Willow's business who Anya slept with after Xander jilted her at the altar.
     
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  10. Athene

    Athene Scooby

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    Willow's spell was subconcious, and she subconciously wasn't ready and didn't want to face her friends and so therefore she became invisible to them. I think Willow subconsciously couldn't care less what Anya and Spike think of her or maybe it's because they're both killers themselves so they don't have the right to judge her as much as the others do. I think that's why her spell didn't affect Anya and Spike. So yeah, as others have said it's mainly that Anya and Spike weren't a concern to Willow.
     
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  11. Priceless

    Priceless I am now

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    The spell seems to sugest that Willow didn't really care what Anya or Spike think about her. But that makes her apology to Anya later in the episode seem a little bit fake.
     
  12. Last Watcher

    Last Watcher Tweed Icon

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    Sineya
    Perhaps along with having no idea Spike was even back in town, as she had effectively destroyed the Magic Box in her fight with Buffy she may have thought Anya wouldn't be around now either.....having lost her only real reason for hanging around. She did seem genuinely surprised to see Anya when she saw her outside the ruined shop.......

    But yes, it would make sense that the unconscious spell would only be aimed at her friends....the ones she expected to be meeting her at the Airport.
     
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  13. Priceless

    Priceless I am now

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    That's a really good point, I hadn't thought that Willow might not know that Spike or Anya was back in town and she might not have expected to see them, so they weren't included in the spell. I much prefer this idea because it doesn't make Willow seem so mean :)
     
  14. Athene

    Athene Scooby

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    It doesn't make the apology fake, Willow is sorry for what she did to Anya but at the same time I don't think she had the same level of worry at facing Anya that she did for the other scoobies. If Anya had rejected Willow's apology I don't think it would have been as painful as Buffy rejecting her apology and so there wasn't any need for Willow to be invisible to Anya.
     
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  15. Fool for Buffy

    Fool for Buffy "I wanna see how it ends"

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    Sineya
    I'm pretty sure it has nothing to do with Spike and Anya being demons; she just has no fear of lack of acceptance from them. After all, they are also murderers. It's a status situation. She feels below Buffy, Xander, and Dawn because of what she did but she still sees herself above or at least equal to Spike or Anya.
     
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  16. TriBel

    TriBel Potential

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    I think it's a literalisation of the Gaze (Sartre's gaze - there are other models). The Gaze has the power to make us feel ashamed etc. even if there's no-one watching (we act as though they are watching - sort of social conditioning). Spike's and Anya don't have the power to evoke the gaze because their opinion of her doesn't matter to her. It's why Buffy felt so liberated in Gone - she'd escaped the gaze.
    --- Double Post Merged, Jul 29, 2017 ---
    Xander's "Yellow Crayon" sign is working in a similar way (although in other ways it's the opposite). Xander hopes Willow will see it because yellow crayon means something to her. He's also hoping she'll read his love and forgiveness into it. Other people won't "see" it even if it's in vision because it doesn't mean anything to them.
     
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  17. Last Watcher

    Last Watcher Tweed Icon

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    Sineya
    Fire bad, tree pretty....... o_O:oops:;)
     
  18. TriBel

    TriBel Potential

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    I've just spent the last 15 minutes checking Xander's shirt in this episode against the one he's wearing in Empty Places. It's almost exactly the same except this one's got a yoke. Someone needs to take that boy in hand (at least when he's shopping). Who needs TWO orange check shirts? Why am I doing this on a Saturday night?!
    --- Double Post Merged, Jul 29, 2017 ---
    And...whoosh! Explainy please. (Did I really just type "explainy...really? OMG!). I'm going back the Guardian comments section. I've never once used the word explainy there. Aargh! The gaze...the gaze!!
     
  19. Last Watcher

    Last Watcher Tweed Icon

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    Sineya
    Um...you're comment on 'The Gaze' went so far over my head it didn't even mess up my hair (And I very nearly typed 'Splainey?' myself :rolleyes: ).

    Sorry but sometimes the theoretical stuff is too much for my little brain to cope with & I feel like Caveman Buffy..... :oops:
     
  20. Ethan Reigns

    Ethan Reigns Scooby

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    Sineya
    If it had to do with demon content, slayers are part demon and therefore Buffy would have seen her. I believe it is her fear of being rejected by people she considers important in her life and Spike and Anya are not.