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Would you have forgiven Wesley?

Discussion in 'Season 3' started by Ripper666, May 7, 2012.

  1. timbitsmama

    timbitsmama Townie

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    I would forgive. Maybe not right away, but with time, after we both had time to ourselves and to think things through, I would. Wesley is one of his most dear friends, and they both know each other well enough to see main points in their character. Wesley has a good heart--he wouldn't do something if he didn't feel it was right for many (or most) of the people involved in the situation. And Wesley knows Angel would never agree to it if he would've known from the beginning. So Wesley took a bullet for the group, fully aware of the consequences. Both men are wise, and so, with that being said, they are wise enough to come to the conclusion that although the issue was unfortunate, what Wesley did was not done out of bad spirit, and they should both move on. Forgive and forget: better for both of them.
     
  2. Smile Time

    Smile Time The Scattered One

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    Sineya
    Probably, but it would take a VERY long time for him to earn my forgivness.
    And even if he does earn it, I would have a hard time trusting him for many years after that.
     
  3. Riderofapocalypse

    Riderofapocalypse Potential

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    Oh I'd kill him. Kill him dead. Remember the hospital scene when Angel tried to smother Westley with a pillow and screamed 'I'll kill you, you son of b**ch!'...Yeah that would be me. And then a Zima. ;)
     
  4. bespangeled

    bespangeled Scooby

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    Black Thorn
    If Angel wanted Wesley dead, he would be dead. It would have taken less time and effort to snap his neck then to try and smother him.

    Do we keep the fact that Wesley did rescue Angel from an eternity of sleeping with the fishes? I'm really conflicted, but I have to say that, while the pain and fear would be overwhelming and I might not be able to forgive - I also realize that Wesley was only a small piece of what happened to Connor. Anytime anyone took that baby out of the Hyperion, this could have happened. W&H, Holtz, Justine all wanted him, and the more word of his existence spread, the more danger he would have been in. I'm surprised Angel didn't pull up stakes and move to Tibet for about 20 years.
     
  5. Cocogurl

    Cocogurl Townie

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    I probably would've forgiven him, but it would take a long time. As for Angel's reaction, it's completely understandable to me. In that moment, he wasn't the Angel that we're all used to. He was a grieving father who just lost his son partially due to one of his closest friends going behind his back and making decisions about the child. There's no doubt that Wesley's motives were good and that's why I believe forgiveness is possible. But the way he went about it was wrong. He had an entire group of people he could've turned to if he felt he couldn't talk to Angel, but he chose not to do that.
     
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  6. white avenger

    white avenger white avenger

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    And, lest we forget, a vampire has superhuman strength. If Angel had really wanted Wes dead, no amount of orderlies could have pulled him away from what he was doing. It would have been like Captain America and the S T R I K E team in the elevator in "The Winter Soldier," only much more bloody.
     
  7. EffyStonem

    EffyStonem Guest

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    I wouldn't have forgiven him. Wesley showed that he had no trust or faith in Angel, he didn't believe in Angel's love for Connor, and he arrogantly decided he knew what was best, and as a result, Connor's childhood was full of trauma and distress, Holtz won, and Angel lost his son. And Wes never once apologises to Angel or Connor for this. So no, he does not deserve to be forgiven.
     
  8. Geobubbles

    Geobubbles Can I play with the puppy?

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    Black Thorn

    Well during season 3 you could see that Wesley was really the odd one out, everyone around him was forming their own relationships with each other and Wesley had no one to turn to. Fred and Gunn, Cordy and Gru, Angel and Connor. I believe if Fred and Gunn hadn't gotten together he would have told Fred but because he was consumed by jealousy and Cordelia was away with Gru there was really no one around to go to so he was compelled to turn to Holtz. The only other option for Wesley would be to go to Angel but he probably wasnt too sure whether he could trust Angel as litterally everywhere he turned signs of the prophecy showed themselves.
     
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  9. GraceK

    GraceK Grr Arrg

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    Never. This may hit a nerve with me since I am a new mother. The love I have for my son is indescribable....if someone I trusted kidnapped him and got him sucked in a hell dimension...I would kill them, no matter our history . However, I am not a tortured vampire who is tasked with saving the world...so who really knows?
    --- Double Post Merged, Dec 21, 2016 ---
    This. Given their history, Wesley should have told him about the prophecy...or let someone on his team know his fears. And I say this as a huge Wesley fan. He was completely wrong in how he handled it, and cost an innocent baby his whole childhood.
     
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  10. Ethan Reigns

    Ethan Reigns Scooby

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    Sineya
    This question comes up from time to time. If the prophecy said the father will kill the son, did Wesley ever give any thought to the possibility that this may be a good idea at some point? Connor was the son of two vampires, something that had never been seen before. There is nothing in the Watchers' Handbook that covers this possibility because it was not just considered to be impossible, it was not considered at all because the question had never been raised. There was a good chance that the son might grow up psychopathic or sociopathic on a colossal scale. What Wesley did was not forgivable, not just for the destruction of a family but for deciding he knew what was best for everyone else. He also never gave any thought to the question of whether the prophecy was bogus or not - he assumed anything he saw in print was true.
     
  11. Scooby Corps

    Scooby Corps Fly! Be free, little bird, you defy category!

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    It's hard to tell since I don't have children. It's clear that Wesley's intentions were good-willed and sincere. I don't know if I'd be raging in hate but one thing is clear to me: After Angel tried to murder Wesley in cold blood, he lost his right and position to give absolution and I think Angel knew it in S04.

    The only one who has the right to forgive or be unforgiving is Connor, but that storyline was sadly neglected.

    However, ironically, Wesley turned out to be right at the end of the day. The father did "kill" his son (with some delay).
     
  12. jkik15

    jkik15 Townie

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    Maybe after 100 years, but what Wes did was just unbelievably, incredibly stupid! The logical thing in that situation was to STEAL the baby?As if he could protect it from other entities and beings besides Angel? Wolfram & Hart? Demon cults? It makes no ****ing sense! Had he told them, they could have found a way to fix the problem! Locked Angel up in a cage! Him go stay with Buffy! Anything! But running away with Connor was just stupid, and I don't understand how anyone with an I.Q over 20 would believe that Wes did the right thing! If I were Angel, I would have killed him, for sure. That was ****ED UP what Wes did! And did I mention STUPID??? Those episodes make me so ANGRY for some reason. It just didn't make any sense! I feel here is where the show slipped a bit in the writing department.
     
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  13. Anyanka Bunny Killer

    Anyanka Bunny Killer "I got these evil hand issues..."

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    Black Thorn
    Wesley's act was the ultimate betrayal, I don't care if his intentions were noble. You don't kidnap children!! I NEVER would've forgiven him. Ever.

    And he had no right to feel sorry for himself. "...throat cut and my friends abandoned me." Well, what did you EXPECT?! You were trusted and then stole Angel's baby! Moron.
     
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