Episode Discussion 2.13 "Epitaph Two" - Aired 29/1/10 (FOX-US)

[Buffyverse Fan]

Source: tv.com

In the year 2020, Echo and the few surviving Dollhouse staff struggle to restore mankind after the devastating events seen in the unaired first season episode, "Epitaph."

Wow, I'd say arguably the best and least satisfying series finale that Joss Whedon has written.

Paul's death was heartbreaking. Priya/Tony/Tony Jr. was okay, but extremely outshone by the rest.

I for one rank this episode as excellent, the series as mediocre, and I'm somewhat glad that this is the end.

Dystopia future stories can be interesting, but I personally think Joss took this series in too tragic a direction. We lost the three main male protagonists, in kind of horrible ways. And Echo's ending was more disturbing than heartwarming to me.

Compared to Buffy's happy-ish ending in S7, aside from Anya, it was a big win.

Angel's most recent ending was After the Fall, and it wasn't nearly this bad either. The world certainly wasn't lost. Cordy got a happy ending, and as sad as I was to lose Wes, I did remember that he kind of wanted to die since he lost Fred.

Good episode, but if this is any indication of the direction Joss will be taking Season Eight, I don't know if I can stomach his franchises anymore...

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

Wow, I'm shocked Paul died. I haven't seen the episode yet, but I couldn't resist reading some spoilers.

 

[LittleMissLikesToFight]

I thought the series was fantastic, and im going to miss it and all it's characters.

I think i cried pretty much straight through the last 15 minutes, from Echos breakdown over Paul, to Adelle realizing she was going to lose Topher, to the joy of people getting their own selves back, to Echo imprinting herself with Paul. It was a mix of happy and sad crying, and man did it kill me heh.

How was Topher lost in a horrible way? He sacrificed himself to save the world. How is that horrible?

And i think the death of Paul was just to prove how real a danger that world was... and how quickly safety can be ripped away.

It was incredibly depressing and uplifting at the same time...., a world returned to how it should be and people can rebuild, we've got a lovely family (Tony, Priya, and their son), i think it was right. For the way the series was, i think the tragedy of it was just right. It had a great balance i think.

I agree, i think it's the darkest series joss has done. He touched on some really touchy subjects, and some really dark ideas, so such a finale was expected. But i LIKE the darkness of it, maybe that's just me. I dunno.

 

[Emzzie]

oh. my. gosh.
That was INSANE. My heart was breaking at the same time it was thumping with excitement at the badassness!
Paul- WHY? Ok, I get why. But how heartbreaking was Echo's breakdown over it? Lord my heart... I was not a fan of killing him, just because we'd already had that scare with him almost dying a few episodes back.
Topher- My little buddy Topher. It makes me so sad that he died, but I saw it coming as he was crazy and therefore that made him expendable because the character really had nowhere else to go.
Adelle- I knew she would develop motherly feelings for Echo! She was always my favorite character. I adore her. And she kicks serious butt.
Anthony & Priya - Wow. When he pulled up in his tank? That blew my mind. That was super badass. I loved them together. I am glad they ended up together and with their child. I'm glad that Jos, Jed and Mo gave us a happy ending for them.
Felicia & "mini me Caroline" - Gotta love Felicia. She was great Mini me is such a great actress. She is going to grow up and be killer on screen.
Alpha- So, how did he turn good? I'm confused. I loved seeing him good all the same. He kicked butt like the rest of them and I immediatley liked him. I thought he was going to punch Echo at first and then they hugged! A bit of a wtf moment for me.

Echo- Eliza Dushku was amazing in this. I've never seen her acting as incredible as it was in this episode. She kicked butt and was tough but my heart just broke when she had that breakdown. Shes got mad skillz, I dont care what anyone says! I did not really get the ending. Why did she erase herself? What about Caroline? Won't erasing herself not work because she is immune anyways?

This got a little confusing for me at times but overall it was fantastic. I was glued to the tv. I was glad Joss gave us a happy ending for most of our characters and "only" killed two. Just kills me that it was Paul but I see why. They saved the world, so what more can I ask for? It was great. I'll be buying this season for sure.

You got to hand it to team dollhouse. They sure gave us a freakin awesome finale for what the time they had to wrap up their story. Another great Jossfull ride and I cannot wait until the next one

 

[Buffyverse Fan]

How was Topher lost in a horrible way? He sacrificed himself to save the world. How is that horrible?

Not horrible as-in evil, horrible as-in tragic. He was riddled with guilt, half-crazy, and spent an unspecified amount of time under Rossum's thumb, with at least one person killed in front of him due to his initial refusal to help.

And i think the death of Paul was just to prove how real a danger that world was... and how quickly safety can be ripped away.

It was incredibly depressing and uplifting at the same time...., a world returned to how it should be and people can rebuild, we've got a lovely family (Tony, Priya, and their son), i think it was right. For the way the series was, i think the tragedy of it was just right. It had a great balance i think.

I agree, i think it's the darkest series joss has done. He touched on some really touchy subjects, and some really dark ideas, so such a finale was expected. But i LIKE the darkness of it, maybe that's just me. I dunno.

Maybe, haha. I most certainly did not enjoy Paul losing his life like that. It was a great episode, and you're right, given the grim premise of the series, the ending did fit.

 

[Washburne]

So it's over. Must admit that the finale wasn't like I imagined. Doesn't mean it was bad though. Didn't get all the answers I wanted but maybe I just missed it. I agree with LMLTF about Paul. The journey Topher has done has been great. I had a hard time warming up to him but he ended as one of my favourite characters. The same goes for Victor/Anthony. He didn't do much for me in the beginning but has Enver been amazing or what? I hope we'll see him soon again.

The geeky side of me liked to see Jed Whedon even if it was only for a very short moment.

 

[Buffyverse Fan]

Alpha- So, how did he turn good? I'm confused. I loved seeing him good all the same. He kicked butt like the rest of them and I immediatley liked him. I thought he was going to punch Echo at first and then they hugged! A bit of a wtf moment for me.

Technically, the LA Dollhouse joined the fight that Alpha started. Alpha was a sociopath/zealot, and his methods were downright evil. But his overall message was pretty much where Echo & Adelle wound up.

Echo- Eliza Dushku was amazing in this. I've never seen her acting as incredible as it was in this episode. She kicked butt and was tough but my heart just broke when she had that breakdown. Shes got mad skillz, I dont care what anyone says! I did not really get the ending. Why did she erase herself? What about Caroline?

Echo/Caroline did not erase herself, no erasing went on

 

[Washburne]

Echo/Caroline did not erase herself, no erasing went on

That's right. She just added the Paul inprint into herself so they could be together. Or so I think.

 

[Tasha]

Waow i haven't cried this much in well ages. Excellent but so heartbreaking.
I burst out crying at echos breakdown over Paul and how she never told him that she loved him, i'm actually glad that they loved each other.
Then i started crying AGAIN at the end like a big baby, lmfao.
I'm so sad at Topher dying too but he did die in a good way, this episode was truly epic, what a masterpiece.
but man i'm depressed that it's all over, i never thought i'd be this sad, like i was with Buffy.
I'm glad Priya and anthony are a little family now. It was nice to see Alpha as a good guy, and Adelle looked so cute.
Wow at Elizas acting. GOD that was so sad.

I can't get over how truly amazing Dollhouse has been.
Gonna miss it so bad.

 

[evo]

Not a fan of the ending, HUGE props to Joss for doing what he could in such a short time, But you can easily see that was not where he wanted the show to end... Alot of things not meeting their potential... so with that i was rather annoyed at the final... Terrific performance from Echo Topher and Odell... Rossum's event less exposure in the last episode was disappointing... Any one else wished this was a movie length? lol

What did Topher see on the wall to remember?

 

[Flannen]

What did Topher see on the wall to remember?

I'm not sure that he saw anything in particular. At first I thought he was just giving himself something to look at instead of staring at the equipment waiting. Plus, the whole thing being 'to remember' - well Topher was finally giving that all back to them. I think it was all symbolic.

I'll be back later with more thoughts - too distressed about Paul right now, lol.

 

[Bluebird]

I don't really know what to say, except that was amazing! Some things were a bit unexplained, like why Alpha was all helpful and on their side and when did Anthony go all techy. Oh and maybe it's just me, but what was the thing about them having to stay in the Dollhouse? Was that only the ones who wanted to keep their memories?

I thought they done well considering it all had to be wrapped up so fast, it felt like a real mini movie. Paul's death was so sad, like Anya on Buffy, in how shocking and fast it was. And poor Topher .

I loved Eliza's acting in this one, I really thought she was great in all her scenes. And that girl who played Caroline was amazing, just as she was in Epitaph One. That reminds me - the ep was dead sad with all the deaths and everything, but that bit where Zone (I think that's his name) tells the wee girl that everything's going to be ok really got to me.

 

[Flannen]

I'm going to have to start with this rant - I need to get it off my chest:

What the hell, Joss?! Seriously, I will never forgive for killing Paul off. Ever. I know I'm biased because he was my favourite character but I'm just so angry! He deserved so much more than what he got and quite frankly I think his death was totally unnecessary - all it was there for was to show that Joss likes to kill love. Gah.

Anyway...Eliza outshone everyone in this episode, she was totally captivating. Echo's breakdown broke my heart and I cried all the way through. Actually, I was crying from the minute she saw Paul go down because I knew that breakdown was coming.

I loved that Alpha was a good guy and that he had an affinity with them all individually too. I'm guessing that even though it wasn't explained, when Echo said that he had evolved, he had managed to get his personalities under control like Echo had and that it became important for him to be rid of the pyscho.

Adele was fabulous. The pain on her face when she realised what Topher's decision was broke my heart even more, if that was possible. I adored the hug she gave to Echo. It was so full of pride and adoration and love, it was simply beautiful.

I think I'm kind of peeved with the direction they took Anthony in. I get that he joined the 'tech' cause because he wanted to be able to help win the war and I'm glad he stepped away from it as soon as he realised that war had been won.

I think the whole story was wrapped up well, sure there were some things missing but I also think there was already too much talking to bring the audience up to speed and that resulted in the sacrifice in a lot of the action. I was hoping the battle scene with the butchers was going be more than it was, but I liked all the slow-mo stuff with Echo and her shotgun.

When I first realised what it was that Alpha had left for Echo, I thought it was so touching, but I'm also thinking about the fact it's rather strange now too, lol. But it made Echo happy so it's good enough for me.

I am truly going to miss Dollhouse, but I will also watch it over and over. The finale was by no means the best episode of season two, but the whole show was and always had been more than it was ever given credit for.

That being said, I still don't like Joss Whedon very much at the moment, lol, and he better hope he doesn't see me in the street because I'm going to kick his ass!

 

[Emzzie]

That's right. She just added the Paul inprint into herself so they could be together. Or so I think.

*sniffle* I totally had no idea what was going on. That is so....awwwwwwwwwwwww. Kind of odd but really really sad. That makes much more sense to me now. lol I was like WTF why is Paul here now, is she dead?

Oh and since I seem to miss alot of things, I was wondering If Alpha mentioned if he found Whiskey at all? I guess she did die huh....

 

[Washburne]

I think I'm kind of peeved with the direction they took Anthony in.

Since he was a soldier before he got to the Dollhouse I guess it wasn't very surprising when you think of it. But not like I knew it was gonna happen.

 

[Senior Watcher]

What did Topher see on the wall to remember?

i was going to ask the same question!! lol.

here are my thoughts:

• Topher saw the wall of rememberance photos and was thrown back by it.

• Topher saw the a photo on the wall that shocked him. i.e. someone posted a picture of him.

 

[Nix]

Wow what an episode. I'm speachless. Paul, omg. Topher, so sad. Echo rocked as always although her mini me could have had some more action. Little T, so sweet. Adelle was brilliant. Such an awesome ep. I hope that is not the end for Joss' tv creations. So sad it's over

 

[MinwaraYana]

It's totally blew my mind. I've never experienced the series finale experience like this because I started watching BtVS and ANGEL in 2004. So I couldn't stop crying along the episode and after.

I think you guys said many things I want to post already so I don't have anything more to add.

Umm, did Fran Kranz work out hard or something? He looks so skinnier here.

Who else LOL so hard when Topher rewind Bennett's tape?

 

[Sweetescape]

Aww it's over . I thought it was really good but I still felt like there were bits missing.
Alpha just turning up and then vanishing as soon as he left (to get wiped with everyone else?). Anthony suddenly becoming a tech head, and him having a son? that was really unexpected.
Pauls death was fast! totally unexpected, I felt dead sorry for Echo. Eliza's acting was great, probably the best I've seen her. But I didn't cry....(probably the only one), I never warmed to Echo/Echo and Paul so it didn't really get me that much.
Topher's death really got me he was so my favourite!, his touching scenes with Adele were brilliant I love Fran Kranz and Olivia Williams."Tired?...bedtiiime!" ahaha <3
The girl who was Caroline was brilliant and I like Zone and Mag's little story since they'd kinda of had a separate journey apart from all the other's.
I like how Adele was the one to lead all the people out, in season one she would have never done that, shows how far she's come.
Alexis what happened to him?.
I suppose it was wrapped up the best they could, still felt really quite short and rushed, I had expected it to be longer than a normal episode.

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

...Wow.

Topher's character has really come full-circle, hasn't he? When we were introduced to his character, I would have never thought he would have it in him to sacrifice himself to save humanity. Wow. I don't think that Joss intended with his death to redeem Topher in the eyes of his fans - I think Joss intended to redeem Topher for himself. He had so much guilt over the technology he had created and allowed to let loose, which in turn almost ended humanity, his only respite was death, I suppose.

Well, leave it to our Joss to kill off my two favorite characters. I should have seen this coming. Perhaps what was more shocking to me then the character deaths though, is the fact that Tony and Priya apparently ended up together. Has Joss broke his unspoken rule regarding 'happy couples'? *gasp*

Echo...oh, Echo. I cried during her breakdown over Paul. Perhaps Eliza's best work on this show was in that scene. So sad. It's interesting that I felt so much for her character in this scene, considering I've had a hard time connecting to Echo in the past.

Who left Paul's imprint for Echo? Topher, right? Adelle said Topher said to tell Echo to start with the chair. Wow! He paid Echo back for removing Paul's love for her.

I'm glad Echo no longer has to be "alone." Now she has Paul in her head with her.

Nice show, Joss. This is a sad day indeed.

Overall, although it felt a bit rushed, I think the show was concluded nicely.