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Accusation Against Joss Whedon about Justice League filming

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Priceless

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If I were Joss I'd keep very quiet about this until something concrete has been offered by those accusing him. I'm prepared to believe him capable of anything, but I need to hear the facts first before I condemn.
 

Buffy Summers

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Warner Bros. Official Statement:

“In July, Ray Fisher’s representatives asked DC Films President Walter Hamada to talk to Mr. Fisher about his concerns during the production of Justice League. The two had previously spoken when Mr. Hamada asked him to reprise his role as Cyborg in Warner Bros.’ upcoming Flash movie, together with other members of the Justice League. In their July conversation, Mr. Fisher recounted disagreements he’d had with the film’s creative team regarding his portrayal of Cyborg, and complained that his suggested script revisions were not adopted.

Mr. Hamada explained that creative differences are a normal part of the production process, and that a film’s writer/director ultimately has to be in charge of these matters. Notably, Mr. Hamada also told Mr. Fisher that he would elevate his concerns to WarnerMedia so they could conduct an investigation. At no time did Mr. Hamada ever ‘throw anyone under the bus’, as Mr. Fisher has falsely claimed, or render any judgments about the Justice League production, in which Mr. Hamada had no involvement, since filming occurred before Mr. Hamada was elevated to his current position.

While Mr. Fisher never alleged any actionable misconduct against him, WarnerMedia nonetheless initiated an investigation into the concerns he’d raised about his character’s portrayal. Still not satisfied, Mr. Fisher insisted that WarnerMedia hire an independent third party investigator. This investigator has attempted multiple times to meet with Mr. Fisher to discuss his concerns but, to date, Mr. Fisher has declined to speak to the investigator. Warner Bros. remains committed to accountability and to the well-being of every cast and crew member on each of its productions. It also remains committed to investigating any specific and credible allegation of misconduct, which thus far Mr. Fisher has failed to provide.”
 

Btvs fan

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Warner Bros. Official Statement:

“In July, Ray Fisher’s representatives asked DC Films President Walter Hamada to talk to Mr. Fisher about his concerns during the production of Justice League. The two had previously spoken when Mr. Hamada asked him to reprise his role as Cyborg in Warner Bros.’ upcoming Flash movie, together with other members of the Justice League. In their July conversation, Mr. Fisher recounted disagreements he’d had with the film’s creative team regarding his portrayal of Cyborg, and complained that his suggested script revisions were not adopted.

Mr. Hamada explained that creative differences are a normal part of the production process, and that a film’s writer/director ultimately has to be in charge of these matters. Notably, Mr. Hamada also told Mr. Fisher that he would elevate his concerns to WarnerMedia so they could conduct an investigation. At no time did Mr. Hamada ever ‘throw anyone under the bus’, as Mr. Fisher has falsely claimed, or render any judgments about the Justice League production, in which Mr. Hamada had no involvement, since filming occurred before Mr. Hamada was elevated to his current position.

While Mr. Fisher never alleged any actionable misconduct against him, WarnerMedia nonetheless initiated an investigation into the concerns he’d raised about his character’s portrayal. Still not satisfied, Mr. Fisher insisted that WarnerMedia hire an independent third party investigator. This investigator has attempted multiple times to meet with Mr. Fisher to discuss his concerns but, to date, Mr. Fisher has declined to speak to the investigator. Warner Bros. remains committed to accountability and to the well-being of every cast and crew member on each of its productions. It also remains committed to investigating any specific and credible allegation of misconduct, which thus far Mr. Fisher has failed to provide.”
Jason Momoa and Ray Fisher have responded. They say this investigation is independent in name only

 

DeadlyDuo

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Are we seeing another Jussie Smollett/Bubba Wallace situation where the person makes out they been discriminated against in some form in order to get sympathy and boost their careers?

Two sentences stick out to me in that people article:

1. Fisher's script suggestions not being adopted

2. Him "vetting" the investigator


On the first, he could be a little annoyed and feel like he's being "dismissed" or "not listened to" because what he considers to be good ideas have been shot down by the higher ups like Whedon. On the second, if he's "vetting" investigators then that could easily mean he's trying to find someone who will give him the result he wants rather than using someone who is truly independent who may not give him the result he wants.

Even Momoa's support, has he actually witnessed any of the incidents Fisher is making accusations about or is he only hearing about them second hand from Fisher and thus feels the need to support his co-star.

This might be the cynic in me but the whole "black people are victims" narrative is going strong right now so the opportunity to capitalise on that is there. There doesn't need to be proof, just accusations,
 

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DeadlyDuo

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Ray Fisher has gone into more specifics
He seems to say that he was "informed that [this happened]" a lot, the first question should be who was the person/people "informing" him.

Here's the thing, if the people that were "informing" him are found to be lying and he's created these issues based on lies, then his career is over.

The first thing to do would be to find out what POC supposedly had their complexion changed in post production and then if that does turn out to be true, speak to the post production crew or whoever was in charge of that specific thing and find out why it was changed. If that can be verified then it at least adds some credence to everything else.

Could this be another Jussie Smollett or Bubba Wallace situation? It seems like Ray Fisher never actually witnessed the things he is alleging but was "informed" of them. His notes being a " coded version of the racist things he was saying behind closed doors with the other execs" could all be just a power of suggestion, after all he never witnessed these conversations but was "informed" of them.
 

thrasherpix

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I hold Hollywood in very low regard.

All the same, given what microcams and recorders are available to the PUBLIC (though not always usable in a court of law, and a growing trend of fraudulent footage is also disturbing--though if proved a "deep fake" then the one who made it would be liable to criminal charges for the forgery in addition to any defamation), and all the recording equipment they have around, I find it suspicious that such over the top behavior just can't be caught on any kind of recording device, especially if it's a pattern. This would also relieve other victims who choose to endure for the sake of their career from any blacklisting or other vengeance since they didn't snitch (at least if Hollywood then tries to blacklist those caught, but not the directors, producers, etc, then the twitter mobs will actually have a viable target that many not hysterical would also care about).

In short, it doesn't take much for me to believe the worst about Hollywood, generally speaking, but it takes more than what we're getting here.
 
DeadlyDuo
DeadlyDuo
Agreed.

Ethan Reigns

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So he changed the tone of a black person's skin in post production? It seems he was trying to correct what should have happened in makeup. As for racist conversations going on, what was actually said? I still get the feeling this is the kind of thing that comes from someone who didn't like his job and he would complain no matter what situation he was in. He may have a legitimate complaint but we haven't heard it yet.
 

DeadlyDuo

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Warner Bros is having a lot of issues lately and facing a lot of backlash both from film makers over the HBO Max move which could kill cinemas plus there's the whole Johnny Depp/Amber Heard drama where they have sided with the abuser rather than the victim. They're on damage limitation. What they don't need is the woke mob on their case for not dealing with the accusation in the way that the woke mob want it done aka a straight white man being cancelled regardless of whether or not there is any truth to the accusations against him. The mere accusation is enough "evidence" for the woke mob to begin their onslaught.

The statement Warner Bros has sent out is vague. Given that they've gone woke and have hired one of the marxist founders of BLM to pump out propaganda, you would think they'd be crowing about how "racism has no place in the film industry and Warner Bros works hard to remove any individual who does not adhere to this value" etc. Releasing the Snyder cut of the movie where Fisher has a bigger part would count as "remedial action". The fact that they've not hung Whedon out to dry over this, despite their sudden veer to the woke, potentially suggests that perhaps they can't make that statement but they are aware of the optics if they allowed Whedon to remain. My guess would be that they privately asked Whedon to voluntarily resign so that they can take some of the heat off themselves. They're still putting out Whedon's show so it's not like they've severed ties with him completely by cancelling the show,
 
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Ethan Reigns

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So now we have a news release that says... nothing. Given that Warner has gone in a "woke" direction, maybe the complaint is about something real or it is about some violation of a politically correct moving target. America has been the land of freedom since 1776. It has been the land of the witchhunt since 1692. Old habits die hard. What is apparent is that no one is willing to talk about facts which means there are possible legal traps where Joss could take them to court and win. Warner doesn't want their newly acquired wokeness to be examined by the public and legal action would be entirely public.
 

Priceless

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I wish Fisher could give more concrete examples of what happened. He was called into the bosses office and humiliated, which is terrible, but I need details. How was he humiliated, what was actually said? Now Warners have finished their investigation surely everyone is free to say exactly what happened and be specific about how Warner's are going to rectify the situation.
 

Ethan Reigns

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I wish Fisher could give more concrete examples of what happened. He was called into the bosses office and humiliated, which is terrible, but I need details. How was he humiliated, what was actually said? Now Warners have finished their investigation surely everyone is free to say exactly what happened and be specific about how Warner's are going to rectify the situation.
They may have finished their deliberations but they are constrained by the contracts they have that would certainly include an NDA (non-disclosure agreement) which could only be superseded by a criminal complaint, and there is no indication that anything criminal has happened. I got used to NDA's when I was consulting and signing an NDA was as common as giving out your business card and was usually the next thing you did after giving out your business card, before anything else was said. There would obviously be a part of the agreement that would prevent anyone from disclosing details about an upcoming movie or leaking a script or talking about relationship issues between any people on the set. When you hire a director, you don't hire Joss, you hire Joss Inc. whose corporation would insist on the NDA going both ways. Any violation of the NDA would land all parties in court and everybody's dirty linen would be there for all the world to see. And the defendant would be exposed as an entity that would not respect or uphold a contractual commitment.
 

DeadlyDuo

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I wish Fisher could give more concrete examples of what happened.
He probably can't because, going by one of his interviews, he never actually witnessed any of these supposed incidents of racism, he was just informed about them.

He was called into the bosses office and humiliated, which is terrible, but I need details. How was he humiliated, what was actually said?
Fisher's definition of "humiliation" and other people's definition of humiliation could be two entirely different things. In the People Interview, it says that Fisher's script suggestions were not adopted. Fisher could easily feel "humiliated" if he was called into the office and basically told to back off and keep his opinions to himself. He said his script notes were "coded racism", again his opinion, but we all know how easily offended SJWs get when something doesn't go their own way.

It's a bit like the Laverne Cox situation where she was supposedly the target of a transphobic attack by a homeless man, yet the details don't add up eg the interaction supposedly escalated and turned "physical" which caused Cox to dial 911 yet it was all over and done with and the situation calmed down before she had finished dialling. How can a situation escalate to the level of physical yet be over before someone finishes dialling 3 numbers? Jussie Smollett would've probably gotten away with his fake hate crime if he'd pulled that stunt this year.

Now Warners have finished their investigation surely everyone is free to say exactly what happened and be specific about how Warner's are going to rectify the situation.
It's Warner Bros lack of statement about "not tolerating racism" that for me suggests there may have not been any actual racism that took place. However, given the situation with BLM rioters and the like, it doesn't reflect well on them if they say that a black man was lying about being racially discriminated against by a straight white man. SJWs hate straight white men the most since they're the "wrong" colour, gender and sexuality and the SJWs can't make a victim narrative out of them. Just because someone is black or gay or a woman or trans doesn't man that any criticism they receive is racist/homophobic/misogynist/transphobic etc.

There's a quote from Thomas Sowell: " “When people get used to preferential treatment, equal treatment seems like discrimination.”

They may have finished their deliberations but they are constrained by the contracts they have that would certainly include an NDA (non-disclosure agreement) which could only be superseded by a criminal complaint, and there is no indication that anything criminal has happened. I got used to NDA's when I was consulting and signing an NDA was as common as giving out your business card and was usually the next thing you did after giving out your business card, before anything else was said. There would obviously be a part of the agreement that would prevent anyone from disclosing details about an upcoming movie or leaking a script or talking about relationship issues between any people on the set. When you hire a director, you don't hire Joss, you hire Joss Inc. whose corporation would insist on the NDA going both ways. Any violation of the NDA would land all parties in court and everybody's dirty linen would be there for all the world to see. And the defendant would be exposed as an entity that would not respect or uphold a contractual commitment.
Fisher already made this matter public so he's broken any NDA that was in place. There's no reason why he can't elaborate on what the incidents are other than he didn't actually witness any incidents and only heard about them via a third party. He didn't get along with Whedon and now was the time to stick the boot in because this is the year of playing the race card.
 

thrasherpix

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Wow, we've reached 5 pages on pointless clickbait articles that just muddy the waters more than inform.
 
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