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Andrew people's views on him in S7

Btvs fan

Scooby
Joined
Feb 11, 2019
Messages
664
Age
38
So what do people think of him ?
People seem to be in the love him or loath him camp.
Andrew was a big part of S7 and Tom Lenk seemed highly regarded by Joss.
Was he a good or bad thing for the season ?
 
W

WillowFromBuffy

Guest
Andrew is involved in several of the most moving moments of S7.
 

NeddaSai

Potential
Joined
Jun 22, 2011
Messages
220
His deep seated denial irritated me, which is why Storyteller was one of my favorite S7 episodes. Overall, he was ok.
 

thetopher

Member of the Church Of Faith
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Dec 23, 2013
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10,075
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The Moot, England
Sineya
Not that bad in S7. Sure he's morally abhorrent but that's mostly because he's really immature. Other characters don't have that excuse for their actions.
Also, while he doesn't answer for his actions in S6, or really for murdering Jonathan in cold blood, he does seem to learn from those mistakes when he becomes a default Scoobie.
Of course he makes many brand new mistakes in the comics, where he really is unlikable and learns nothing.
 

POTN

Townie
Joined
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81
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40
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Boulder, CO
Love him in Season 7.

Though someone brought up a question that I have been pondering. Is Tom Lenk playing him with a flamboyant gay stereotype and if he is, is the Andrew humor that season mostly, "Ha ha, he's gay and weird."

My impulse is no but it's been a little while since I've seen the season.
 
K
katmobile
Hiya ian

Puppet

Actual size.
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Black Thorn
Love him in Season 7.

Though someone brought up a question that I have been pondering. Is Tom Lenk playing him with a flamboyant gay stereotype and if he is, is the Andrew humor that season mostly, "Ha ha, he's gay and weird."

My impulse is no but it's been a little while since I've seen the season.
I'm watching it right now (courtesy of Shan :)) and so far, imo, Andrew's humor is based more on him being pathetic and thinking more highly of himself than the others do, than the flamboyant gay stereotype. So far, so good.
 
W

WillowFromBuffy

Guest
Love him in Season 7.

Though someone brought up a question that I have been pondering. Is Tom Lenk playing him with a flamboyant gay stereotype and if he is, is the Andrew humor that season mostly, "Ha ha, he's gay and weird."

My impulse is no but it's been a little while since I've seen the season.
Well, Tom Lenk is a flamboyantly gay stereotype himself.

There are quite a few gay jokes, and they get a little tiresome, though many of the jokes are quite clever. For example, I love it when Giles is giving boring exposition about death of the other Watchers, and Andrew suddenly screams out, "AND THEY PAID FOR IT WITH THEIR LIVES!"

I also love how they explore how conceited the redemption arc thing can be. They've already touched on that with Angel—that redemption cannot be a vanity project. And I love his relationship with Anya and how he sorta lies to Xander to make her death sound more heroic.

It's weird how Andrew and Anya both are the least "human" characters, but they somehow have many of the most human moments.
 

DeadlyDuo

Scooby
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Jul 29, 2016
Messages
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I think he was unnecessary. Jonathan would've been a much better character to use because of the fact that Jonathan has history with the scoobies pre-trio.

Andrew's best scenes in Season 7 were with the First masquerading as Warren and Jonathan. He needs those two to play off because without them, he has no purpose. There is no connection to the scoobies, his crush on Spike was mildly amusing but overall the Season could've done without him.

Also the season should've cut down on the number of potentials and fallen in line with the "Into every generation a slayer is born" eg perhaps every eighteen years new potentials are born that could be called as a slayer but won't be until the previous generation slayers are all gone (which gives them time to grow). It keeps with the sense that Willow could've been a slayer or Cordelia or even Harmony or anyone else in Buffy's year, whilst at the same time meshing with the select few potentials storyline. Since it's Buffy's resurrection which is a catalyst for the First to make it's move, then it should also be Buffy that's the massive screw up in the slayer line. For example, the slayer line flows through Faith after Buffy's original "death" which Xander revived her from through natural means so there is two slayers but Buffy's death does not call a new slayer. The First starts taking out all the potentials of Buffy's generation so it's just her and Faith. Because Buffy was magically resurrected the slayer line still recognises her as an existing slayer so if Faith is hypothetically killed, the next generation is not activated because Buffy still exists as a slayer of the previous generation even though her death would not activate the new generation thus Buffy would be the last slayer.

It raises the stakes hence why the Watchers are gathering the potentials and sending them to Sunnydale for protection (though sending them all to the same place is a bad idea in itself) and also emphasises why its so imperative to keep them alive because if they're killed off then the slayer line is screwed. At the very least it would give the scoobies a legitimate reason to get critical over Buffy's return to the vineyard plan (they've got limited people and already lost some so can't afford to lose anymore on a whim) and also gives a reason for Buffy to leave the house (elective not evicted) because her death would have less consequences in the long term. It would also explain why everyone puts up with Kennedy despite her horrible attitude and also gives a reason for her to be called out when Chloe kills herself because every person counts and Kennedy's bullying helped contribute to the loss of one.
 

GraceK

Grr Arrg
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Andrew is the only highlight of season 7. Seriously. I love him and he’s hilarious and his commentary makes season 7 watchable.

But if I look at him objectively as a character I hate the guy and he shouldn’t be there. It annoys me that they inserted him into the scoobies, and that he never faces any repercussions for his role in Katrinas attempted gang rape , her mind control, and the cover up of her murder. That’s never mentioned and he shows no remorse for it. He murders a character we have known since season 2 and has actually attempted to redeem himself ( Jonathan) and all we get is some tears over the seal. He’s treated like the wacky neighbor and becomes a scooby as if season 6 never happened. He literally gets the dream that Jonathon always wanted and activity attempted to work and redeem himself for. Jonathan even helps Buffy defeat Warren by telling her to destroy those balls and he never gets any credit for it. Faith went on a path of self hate, attempted suicide, went to jail and saved Angels life all to seek redemption and become a better person and Jonathan DIES trying to do something right and Andrew? Spends a few days tied up in Buffy’s house and cries a bit and all’s forgiven because he’s funny. So on paper it really irritates the hell out of me.
 

Btvs fan

Scooby
Joined
Feb 11, 2019
Messages
664
Age
38
Andrew is the only highlight of season 7. Seriously. I love him and he’s hilarious and his commentary makes season 7 watchable.

But if I look at him objectively as a character I hate the guy and he shouldn’t be there. It annoys me that they inserted him into the scoobies, and that he never faces any repercussions for his role in Katrinas attempted gang rape , her mind control, and the cover up of her murder. That’s never mentioned and he shows no remorse for it. He murders a character we have known since season 2 and has actually attempted to redeem himself ( Jonathan) and all we get is some tears over the seal. He’s treated like the wacky neighbor and becomes a scooby as if season 6 never happened. He literally gets the dream that Jonathon always wanted and activity attempted to work and redeem himself for. Jonathan even helps Buffy defeat Warren by telling her to destroy those balls and he never gets any credit for it. Faith went on a path of self hate, attempted suicide, went to jail and saved Angels life all to seek redemption and become a better person and Jonathan DIES trying to do something right and Andrew? Spends a few days tied up in Buffy’s house and cries a bit and all’s forgiven because he’s funny. So on paper it really irritates the hell out of me.
To be fair it's not like Willow did jail time either, nor Anya/Spike or Giles. They are all murderers. Hell Buffy committed attempted murder herself and she never confessed over that.In fact the only who has and done the time is Faith, yet she was the one Buffy was insulting calling a murderer.

Otoh (after I say all that) His double cross of Angel in Damage was pretty cold too. He was kind of chilling Implying he will have Angel killed if he tries to stop him taking Dana. Though why he didn't bring in those 12 Slayers sooner is anyones guess 🤔
 

Btvs fan

Scooby
Joined
Feb 11, 2019
Messages
664
Age
38
Love him in Season 7.

Though someone brought up a question that I have been pondering. Is Tom Lenk playing him with a flamboyant gay stereotype and if he is, is the Andrew humor that season mostly, "Ha ha, he's gay and weird."

My impulse is no but it's been a little while since I've seen the season.
I would say there is a difference in Angel S5. Yes he acts goofy and over the top in Damage but by the end of the episode, its shown to be an act and he's pretty no nonsense and ruthless.
Then theres the Girl in Question which with the s8 comic retcon is basically him playing both Spike and Angel.
 

Spanky

Scooby
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20,004
Black Thorn
I think he was unnecessary.
I echo pretty much everything you say. There was no need for him. But I think the writers felt he was necessary as Xander was more 'grown up' and wanted someone to fill his old role as comic relief without undercutting the growth Xander made.
 

TriBel

Scooby
Joined
Jun 25, 2017
Messages
1,223
Location
Manchester
Love him in Season 7.

Though someone brought up a question that I have been pondering. Is Tom Lenk playing him with a flamboyant gay stereotype and if he is, is the Andrew humor that season mostly, "Ha ha, he's gay and weird."

My impulse is no but it's been a little while since I've seen the season.
Get it Done

(storms into the room wearing a white apron and a red and white checked oven mitt on each hand) Where the hell have you been? (crosses arms) This funnel cake is kicking my ass.

I wouldn't call him flamboyant but there's enough camp/kitsch stereotyping to see him as a "safe" gay man (as opposed to someone like Aidan Gillan's character, Stuart, in Queer as Folk). He doesn't really have a story function, he isn't useful, he's an irritant and yet he's likeable. I wonder whether he's - in part - a contrast to Kennedy who isn't "safe", who has a function, is useful but is irritating and unlikeable.
 

AlphaFoxtrot

Scooby
Joined
Sep 11, 2017
Messages
1,095
Age
38
Frankly, he comes off as sexually confused, rather than gay. Like Tobias from AD. Then again, the Venture Brothers, which is a near contemporary of Buffy does have two characters where "Being Gay" is 50% of the joke
 
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