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Angel and Faith 9.21 "What You Want, Not What You Need, Pt 1" - Released 4/24/13

Mischlings

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The time has come for Angel to make good on his promise to resurrect Giles"”but at the same time, Season 9's Big Bads, Pearl and Nash, together with Angel's own mentor, Whistler, gather the final pieces needed to harness the last magical powers on Earth for their own apocalyptic plan.

I've been dying to discuss this issue for a little while -- I've started getting early copies of comics for review, and being unable to talk about it for the last week has been driving me crazy. I wrote a review for it here, but that's no substitute to a real discussion.

After the last arc, I had kind of forgotten that Whistler, Pearl, and Nash had been set up as the Big Bads of the season, but then I remembered that I actually liked them and their place in the story -- everyone seems to be trying to bring the magic back, but now we're seeing the bad guy side of that.

Also, I'm glad that they seem to have somewhat explained what magic being gone means -- it's not the best explanation, but it's something and makes most of the recent magic use make some kind of sense.

And ARGH at the cliffhanger -- the fan in me just really wants to see what is happening at the end there. Did it work? Did it not? They're setting it up so both of them could happen, and given the arc name, I have an idea as to what might have happened, but that's really just speculation on my part. My guess is that it succeeds to some extent, though who knows, and that could go in many directions. From the sound of things, we'll know by the next issue whether or not it does.

Overall, this really revived my excitement, especially since things are coming to a finale soon. Of course, now we have another month's wait for the next issue when we might actually get some answers as to what happened here...
 

brinkster130

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The fading Dawn memories part felt poorly written. It's such bs that Faith would have lost most of her memories of Dawn...pre s5 memories yes but post? There is no way Faith forgot Dawn after fighting The First together. Those memories created weren't magic, right? And why wouldn't Spike or any of the others memories be fading too? I'm assuming its because he spent more time with her. Seems like sloppy writing all around.

I'm wondering if there is going to be more to the Spike knowing Pearl and Nash twist we saw. I hope it isn't a pointless connection. Speaking of P&N, I'm really enjoying their characters.

I love Giles' aunts, I'm hoping the resurrection spell doesn't harm them in any way. Can't wait to see if the spell worked.
 
Anya2012
Anya2012
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Mischlings

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The fading Dawn memories part felt poorly written. It's such bs that Faith would have lost most of her memories of Dawn...pre s5 memories yes but post? There is no way Faith forgot Dawn after fighting The First together. Those memories created weren't magic, right? And why wouldn't Spike or any of the others memories be fading too? I'm assuming its because he spent more time with her. Seems like sloppy writing all around.

I'm wondering if there is going to be more to the Spike knowing Pearl and Nash twist we saw. I hope it isn't a pointless connection. Speaking of P&N, I'm really enjoying their characters.

I love Giles' aunts, I'm hoping the resurrection spell doesn't harm them in any way. Can't wait to see if the spell worked.

We'll just have to disagree about the Dawn thing being sloppy - it didn't bug me when I was reading it. Only part that threw me off was that I forgot that was happening over in the Buffy series and had to go back and reread it a bit to remember.

Spike knowing Pearl and Nash came from his miniseries. He runs into them there and there's also a flashback there of him knowing them beforehand.
 
brinkster130
brinkster130
ahh, I still haven't read the miniseries...I prob. should get around to that! :)

Buffyverse Fan

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We'll just have to disagree about the Dawn thing being sloppy - it didn't bug me when I was reading it. Only part that threw me off was that I forgot that was happening over in the Buffy series and had to go back and reread it a bit to remember.
I agree with you, especially considering they already established that rule with Connor one arc earlier. His 3rd family forgot he existed, and those were the exact same circumstances--fictionally inserted into their lives by magic, but had real experiences with them thereafter.

I really enjoyed this issue!
 
Kean
Kean
Great to see you posting on BB again, hun :)
brinkster130
brinkster130
ahh, I'd forgotten about Connor...that changes things a bit.

Anya2012

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I am confused....I thought Faith met Dawn in season 7. and now she can't remember Dawn? is this a mistake on the writers part?
 

white avenger

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The whole "who is Dawn" thing just brings back memories of the "Ben is Glory" scene in Season 5, and once again, Spike is the only one who remembers. I wonder if knowledge of her is going to start fading away in the "Buffy" series as well.

And as for the cliff hanger at the end of this issue, I've got a sneaking suspicion that Giles wasn't resurrected at all. I think that he was actually reborn, and Faith and Angel are gonna be his new mommy and daddy in Season 10, with Uncle Spike, Aunt Buffy, and Big Brother Connor.

Hopefully, I'm 180 out on that one.
 
Anya2012
Anya2012
LOl, Giles being reborn would be cute.

Mischlings

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I am confused....I thought Faith met Dawn in season 7. and now she can't remember Dawn? is this a mistake on the writers part?

Dawn is fading from existence, and Faith and Angel, who've barely met her since she really became real, are starting to forget her, while Spike, who's spent significantly more time with her, still remembers her.
 

Anya2012

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Dawn is fading from existence, and Faith and Angel, who've barely met her since she really became real, are starting to forget her, while Spike, who's spent significantly more time with her, still remembers her.

Ah, now I get it. This storyline is poorly written IMO.
 

white avenger

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I'd blame that mostly on the Buffy side of the comics -- here it serves no purpose than to get Spike out of the picture and back into that series.

It could be said that it also shows that Spike still cares about Dawn, despite their less than friendly coexistence in Season 7. Apparently, he's making good on his promise to take care of her "till the end of the world." Or, at least, until the end of HER.
 

Mischlings

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It could be said that it also shows that Spike still cares about Dawn, despite their less than friendly coexistence in Season 7. Apparently, he's making good on his promise to take care of her "till the end of the world." Or, at least, until the end of HER.

I should have been a little clearer -- the only reason the storyline about Dawn fading away was in the Angel & Faith series was to get Spike out of there and back into the Buffy series. I think it's obvious that he does care about her, but it just serves as a plot device and required bit of crossover here.
 

white avenger

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I think it's obvious that he does care about her, but it just serves as a plot device and required bit of crossover here.

More than a few fans have questioned whether the Spike/Dawn friendship was destroyed forever after "Seeing Red," since the only conversation between the two after that was in Season 7, with Dawn threatening to set Spike on fire if he ever hurt Buffy again. To the best of my knowledge, they haven't had a scene together since that.

Apparently Spike still cares, whether Dawn does or not.
 
M
Mischlings
That last sentence kind of sums up what I was thinking -- he cares about her, whether she does or not. I don't think that part changed, especially since he sees taking care of Dawn as being something he has to do for Buffy.

VisionGirl

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I find the idea of Dawn fading incredibly sad. I know she's not a fan favorite but Buffy losing someone important again? And even if Buffy doesn't even realize it, sadder still. What if she does fade and Xander is the only one who remembers and he spends season 10 trying to get her back and getting everyone to remember?

I know this is A&F but I do like that they integrated that, makes you realize a consequence of having no magic plus I think it ties the two books together a bit.
 

Black Eye Guy

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It's how much stronger the A&F series is over Buffy, reading this is actually exciting and feels longer to read because it's more engaging.

I liked how Spike left, cuz it didn't seem to be for Buffy, but for Dawn. It also makes sense A&F forgetting Dawn, since they spent far less real time with her. Even if they've both met Dawn and remembered her from times after the spell, her connection to Buffy would be forgotten to them.

If Faith remembered her from season 7, she would probably be a nameless face in amongst the sea of potentials, her back story was all fabricated. Although I think it makes sense that if post-spell memories are fading, as Dawns entire existence is fading.

I also really hope they keep the Aunt characters around, whatever happens!
 
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