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Angel/Illyria - why not?

Taake

Maybe it was taquitos. Maybe he lived for taquitos
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Black Thorn
#1
So, why not?

I like Angel and Illyria together, and though it isn’t a pair I’m terribly attached too, I’m also not sure why people are against it? Is it that she’s sharing a body with Fred?

Tell me why you dislike this pairing, I feel like I need to understand why there are objections to it. :)



CF1C2BF7-E6EC-467A-8E34-B3904E4ADAE4.jpeg
 

Spanky

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Black Thorn
#2
Because Angel should have been with Cordy and if she were still in the picture in that season then Angel and Illyria would have never happened.
Illyria should have been with Spike, not Angel. They had a much better dynamic, and damn it but they were actually kinda cute together.
Angel and Illyria seemed rather pedestrian and boring.

As an aside. I just noticed the 'stitching' on the power letters. I like it even more now.
 

WillowFromBuffy

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#3
Because, while Angel may be somewhat apart from humanity, Illyria is in a whole different ball park. Angel and Buffy worked, because they met each other half way. Angel was apart, while Buffy was within, but felt alienated. There is nothing for Angel to gain from forming a relationship with an ancient monster trapped in Fred's body.

It was interesting to see Wes and Illyria explore their different traumas together. Sure, Angel has plenty of trauma, but it is not so dire that Illyria is the only one who can understand him. Angel needs to heal, not wallow in his otherness.

And now, the Buffy comics are going to end with Angel and Illyria together, because that pair was the latest whim of the writers the year that Fox decided to revoke Dark Horse's Buffy license. It is an accident of circumstance.
 
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#4
To me, Illyria is simply too alien for anything like that in the first place, and is also not Angel's type at all even if she were.

However, this is restricted to the show. I haven't read the comics, and I might view it differently if I did. (But then I consider the comics AU, much like the Wishverse is AU, that is a parallel universe to the TV show where things worked out a bit differently rather than a continuity.)
 

HoppyHippy

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Sineya
#5
I feel for Freds body, being with most of the AI males.
Illyria seems beyond lowly love and sex.
 
thrasherpix
thrasherpix
Agree on "beyond" though I could see her trying love & sex out of clinical curiosity (and lacking genuine love & lust), only to coldly dump her test subject once she decided she had an understanding of it or even just deciding it's irrelevant to her.
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Black Thorn
#6
It's grim, sad and also boring. Angel's in a relationship with something that is barely capable of mimicking human emotion. No one really knows if what does occasionally come out is from it or Fred.

There's no chemistry at all. It comes out of nowhere and becomes serious for no obvious reason.

Not to mention while Angel is there having fun with his mate, Fred is trapped inside aware of what's going on. Creepy on all levels.
 

Mrs Gordo

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Black Thorn
#7
Angel needs to heal, not wallow in his otherness.
Yeah this sums it up pretty beautifully. He wallows enough on his disconnect from the world he doesn’t need his partner to also be disconnected. And cold and unfeeling to boot.

Angel needs warmth and love someone that will make him to feel part of the world not further removed/alienated from it.
 

Grace

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#8
Because it’s being played for comedy — “look at the ancient being play awkwardly at romance,” aka Anya all over again. I have zero idea how Angel actually feels about the relationship.

I was intrigued by an Angel/Fred/Illyria relationship as hinted at by the end of Season 11, but this isn’t even interesting. And they completely ruined Illyria’s character to do it. She’s nothing like the fascinating god-king of the show anymore.

Fred’s supposed to show up in #3, so maybe it’ll get better, but I’m pessimistic.
 

WillowFromBuffy

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#9
Because it’s being played for comedy — “look at the ancient being play awkwardly at romance,” aka Anya all over again.
Now, I haven't read the Angel comics, but what made Xander/Anya (and Xander/Cordelia) great was that the writers put moments of haunting resonance into a relationship that appeared to be played for laughs. Xander and Anya deconstructed and rebuilt the whole concept of love and romantic relationship. First, they made it look to be all about empty gestures and rituals, but then they infuse those old gestures with meaning again, and it all comes alive in ways more straight depictions often fail to create.
 

Grace

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#11
Now, I haven't read the Angel comics, but what made Xander/Anya (and Xander/Cordelia) great was that the writers put moments of haunting resonance into a relationship that appeared to be played for laughs. Xander and Anya deconstructed and rebuilt the whole concept of love and romantic relationship. First, they made it look to be all about empty gestures and rituals, but then they infuse those old gestures with meaning again, and it all comes alive in ways more straight depictions often fail to create.
Well, Angel/Illyria wasn’t played for laughs in AtS S11. It was barely played at all. The author even said whether they slept together was up to reader interpretation, so they could have ignored the whole thing without consequence. But so far in in S12, it’s nothing but punchlines at Illyria’s expense.

Like I said, maybe it’ll get better with Fred on the scene, but with two issues left and so many characters to serve, I’m doubtful.
 

Grace

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#13
@Grace Really? That is so odd. It feels very unbuffyesque to be subtle, especially about romance.
VampSlayer: I guess I'll be the one to ask: Did Angel and Illyria sleep together, or was it merely some snogging? Was it purposefully left open to interpretation, and if so, what was the thinking behind that?

CSB: I do want to leave it open to interpretation, since it’s a very intimate moment either way and I don’t want to “force” anyone to change what they think happened, especially since the answer probably has a lot to do with how each reader relates to the characters personally. Honestly, I was most interested in how the trio would handle any sort of interpersonal relationship. It’s hard enough to be friends with, say, a devoted couple, without falling into the trap of thinking “they like pizza,” or “they never stay out late.” In other words, we tend to assort people into groups just because they hang around together, even when we know they are individuals. I imagine that Angel would be hyper aware of this trap when dealing with Fred and Illyria, but its still bound to bring up some confusing emotions. He and Fred are such good friends and are so comfortable spending time together, whereas Illyria is mysterious and dangerous. But Illyria’s proximity to Fred has got to make her seem less “other,” even after Angel has spent time with Illyria’s true form. All of which is a long way of saying that I hope everyone makes up their own mind about what happened.


I actually think this answer brings up a ton of interesting stuff to explore, but I don’t really see us getting it in Buffy’s book, y’know? Another season of Angel might have really gone there. Who knows? I might just have to write more Frangyria fic. ;)
 
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#16
Because she isn't blonde. Angel does blondes if we are talking actual intend on being with the woman for more than a night. Darla, Buffy, Nina. Hell even Cordy had to go blond.

But really all of that human crap is utterly beneath Illyria. At least her TV version (don't know the comics version and from just reading about this Angel/Illyria thing I don't want to). And there is the Fred angle to consider which would give Angel pause and revulsion really.
 

Willow Tara

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#17
@thrasherpix I could see her trying love & sex out of clinical curiosity (and lacking genuine love & lust), only to coldly dump her test subject once she decided she had an understanding of it or even just deciding it's irrelevant to her.
Very interesting. I thought about something like that too.
So what I´d like to see with Illyria relationships would be either that, because it sound intersting (as long as the test subject isn´t so important that I would care too much about his/her feelings). Or to explore Illyria and Wesleys relationship more, but no romantic relationship. Or Spike and Illyria, but also not romantic. OR Fred comes back and she and Wes are living happily ever after :) *dreaming*

So.... NO! Defenitely no Illyria/Angel! (imo)
 

brinkster130

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#18
This is an odd train of thought.....but for me it's because when we first met Illyria I really enjoyed her and Spikes friendship. There was something interesting about the two of them having some sort of bond. Now, that's gone and her relationship with Angel just opens the door for more Angel vs Spike type stuff. I know its not the same as other ship wars or triangles; but I still think the characters deserve better than that. If that makes any sense.

Also, I agree with Hoppy, Illyria has always seemed so beyond love/sex/relationships. This pairing almost takes away from her character. But, I will say they are two attractive characters, so I get it visually.
 

Grace

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#19
So what I´d like to see with Illyria relationships would be either that, because it sound intersting (as long as the test subject isn´t so important that I would care too much about his/her feelings)
See, I feel like this is the kind of relationship between Angel and Illyria (and Fred, because she would need to be OK with it) that could work. If there are no big romantic feelings, then Illyria can explore sexuality and Angel can have some fun times without worrying about losing his soul. But Season 12 has her calling Angel "my warrior" and being all over-the-top romance novel (though, then again, she was willing to work out an Angel-sharing arrangement with Buffy, lol, so I'm not really sure what she's feeling).

I also feel like Angel and Fred have more in common now that she knows what it's like to share her body with a violent demon. Plus, they have the loss of their big loves with Buffy and Wesley to bond them. And I think the scientist in Fred would be very intrigued by how vamps work...;)

So I think we have the makings of a compelling thruple.

WillowFromBuffy Didn't you promise to post some Willow/Buffy smut?
I said I would consider it...then I chickened out.
 

thetopher

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#20
Because ALL of Angel's close relationships have been with people who keep him grounded with humanity. Not even just his romantic ones (but yeah, all his romances as well).

Illyria has nothing in common with Buffy, Doyle, Cordy, Wesley, Faith, Nina or any other; she is a disconnect, almost totally alien, apart from the world and everything in it. Angel NEVER needs that.
And I refuse to believe that he would come to have feelings for somebody who doesn't value their own humanity and compassion at least as much as he does.

I loathe this pairing; its stupid and witless and clumsy. Urgh.
 
brinkster130
brinkster130
good point
RomanticSoul
RomanticSoul
Right on.
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