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Angel Season 5 = Most Boring Season imo

Discussion in 'Season 5' started by Joshua, Aug 31, 2015.

  1. Atsfan1

    Atsfan1 Townie

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    I don't remember that I'm sorry.

    God bless you! God bless everyone in your life!
     
  2. redruM

    redruM Potential

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    There's a good chance I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure Jasmine was part of the Powers That Be. The topic of power comes up after everyone becomes disillusioned to her spell; something about all that matters are our choices (when Connor has the choice to kill the woman Cordelia used as a sacrifice) and the pursuit of power. Power is neutral, neither good nor evil, thus the fight that Angel inc. has been a part of for the past few years was misguided. The team struggles with the idea of running an organization they thought epitomized "evil" after they take over Wolfram & Hart, but I think the point was to show that they weren't really evil, nor was Angel actually good; all that mattered was having the power. In the end, the Senior Partners had too much power.
     
  3. Ember

    Ember To kill this girl, you have to love her.

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    Well I've just finished watching Angel season 1 - 5.8.

    Not really in a rush to make it to the end now, the rest sounds quite boring.

    I've got to say, in all these years I hadn't bothered to watch the whole series, I wasn't missing out on much.

    Buffy is better as far as I'm concerned . After watching Angel, I was even starting to dislike him.

    It's ruined Bangel for me. There's so many things Buffy and Angel could have done in order to try and be together, but nothing, no attempts zine Jenny tried. That's always bugged me. And the fact he destroyed that ring.

    And how could he even like Cordelia? Buffy's ex sort of friend. That's out if bounds in my book. And out of character for Angel.

    Don't even get me started on the Connor storyline. Utterly absurd. No need for it. Shouldn't have happened. And did he have to look so dweebish, when the Scooby Gang were 18 they didn't appear so young and naive.

    In fact Buffy had all ready lost her virginity to angel by that age. What did Angel say that Cordy done to Connor, grooming. That raises some interesting questions doesn't it Angel.. Tut tut.

    And Spikes so totally right. Spike fought for his soul, Angel didn't.

    I did like the Jasmine episodes. And I love Lorne. Wes got better as a character. But apart from that, most the whole script is pretty weak.

    They tried to live up to Buffy pop culture, but fail miserably.

    More faith would have been nice.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2015
  4. Atsfan1

    Atsfan1 Townie

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    What was unlikable?
    It was for the best. Angel isn't a person to give up and go for the easy way. He wants to work for what's right. Even in what's right for him. That wasn't getting back with Buffy.
    Cordelia and Buffy aren't friends and Angel owes Buffy nothing after they broke up.
    What's wrong with dweebish? I don't see how he was naive or appeared so young. There's a lot of utterly absurd on Buffy's show too. But Connow was very necessary for Angel's character development.
    Spike only fought for a soul because of several extenuating circumstances. Without them he would. But neither really souled Spike or souled Angel fought for their, because they aren't the demons that were in control when they did that.
    How did they fail?

    God bless you! God bless everyone in your life!
     
    thetopher likes this.
  5. AAXL98

    AAXL98 Guest

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    Seasons 5 and 3 of Angel where the best seasons! What are you talking about? haha.
     
  6. vellavu

    vellavu Scooby

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    Black Thorn
    Good things about S5:
    1. No stupid Angel/Cordy/Darla, Angel/Cordy/Groo, Angel/Cordy/Connor, Fred/Wesley/Gunn, Fred/Lilah/Wesley triangle soap opera nonsense.
    2. Angel/Nina and Wesley/Fred are treated as a normal thing instead of the show's focus.
    3. Last half was very well executed.
    Bad things about S5:
    1. Only Angel, Spike, and Wesley have any characteristics. Gunn, Lorne, Fred, Illyria are downgraded to plot devices.
    2. Why are Harmony and Eve there?
    3. They sort of built the tension towards the finale but I didn't feel it.
     
    Fuffy Baith likes this.
  7. Wildfly

    Wildfly blue fire

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    Black Thorn
    The character that made the biggest impression on me was Lawson. It was such a pity a human like him got turned and i wished Angel um... took responsibility and left the submarine with him, or staked him instead of just kicking him out. It wasn't fair and his short appearance for me was more powerful than the lenghty Wes scenes i was bored with.

    "Why can't i stay" duett of Wes and Fred dragged on and on and i felt guilty not feeling sorry. Fred was plain in season 5, nothing like the messed up slave girl ot the awkward but brilliant one that found herself in the Angel team i loved, so i was happy when she got her Illyria tweak, also i was bored out of my skull by Wesley's father issues... ugh.
    His father haven't appreciated him... big deal. Ask Faith what it's like to have a difficult childhood or Kendra what's it like not having one at all. Whiney Weasley's and his first world problems.
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2015
  8. vellavu

    vellavu Scooby

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    Black Thorn
    No one has a father who can take care of them in Buffyverse except few. For example:

    Buffy&Dawn(not there, later turned into an asshole), Willow(not there), Xander(abusive), Cordy(jail), Anya(died 1000+ years ago), William(not there), Faith(abusive), Kendra(not there).

    Few good fathers:
    Ripper's father(decent, though having not much control on him), Fred's father.
     
  9. Mr Trick

    Mr Trick Scooby

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    That is true, it does seem to be an aspect which links to the feminist feel of both shows.

    Never thought of Fred as being plain in S5 before. To me its just character progression, and the whole way she handles Spike I find very touching, and hits home on a human level.
     
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  10. Spanish Flame

    Spanish Flame It's Not Easy Being Green

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    I also think s5 is the best or one the bests, I'm still wondering and rewatching all.

    I do agree that Gunn, Lorne, Fred, Illyria have no big evolution as the rest have. They are seem to be left on second shot and sometimes I do feel writers forget about them. All of them could have done much better than they did.

    Despite this, Season 5 is great watch and Spike is the icing on the cake for me. I love Harmony's evolution and being sometimes comical.
     
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  11. Mr Trick

    Mr Trick Scooby

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    Do you mean in terms of them not having proper stories of their own? I agree with you about Lorne on this front. In fact to even call his involvement in season 5 a plot device might be kind;) Gunn and Fred I don't agree about. The end of Fred's arc is very dramatic and certainly makes her much more than a plot device, and her involvement with Spike when he first shows up is more than that too IMO. With Gunn you have the whole lawyer thing, and his struggle with morality etc...

    Harmony was there as a footnote, as a nice little tribute, but not much more. Eve was there to set up the twist with Lindsey later in the season. Don't get me wrong she was the shits and pointless, but there was actually a storyline reason for her to be there.

    Having re-watched this season recently I'd add The Life of the Party to the dud the episode list. Its one of the worse Angel episodes ever:)
     
  12. Guy

    Guy Scooby

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    Black Thorn
    WHAT?!

    You people have no appreciation for drunk humor...
     
  13. RomanticSoul

    RomanticSoul Scooby

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    S5 is the bottom of the barrel for me too. Lilah and Cordy get replaced with Eve and Harmony. Whose insanely stupid idea was that? The whole Wes/Fred and Angel/Nina thing was absolutely unnecessary.

    And Whedon repeated the same mistakes in this Season as in S7 of Buffy. Lots and lots of Spike story without any impact on the main arc that Season, not that there was one until Greenwalt came back (go figure). Over focus on Spike also left most other MAIN characters to be reduced to drive by appearances. The main star is shoved to the side for a secondary character but also reduced to give speeches while you wonder wth is going on with them because they seem insane. It's all about power, again. Stay away from all things AtS and Angel, Whedon. You just don't get it, as all your sucky episodes prove.

    The end of the Season is better (and the Finale rocks all kinds of socks) but that's probably thanks to Greenwalt, as always.
     
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  14. Mr Trick

    Mr Trick Scooby

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    Well I didn't even say what I didn't like about the episode;) The drunk humour was alright some of it was better than other bits. The best part was Wes and Fred acting drunk. But that alone could not save the episode.:D
     
  15. Guy

    Guy Scooby

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    Black Thorn
    But... The entire episode is just an excuse to have lots and lots of silly humor!

    Drunk Fred! Drunk Wes! Peeing Gunn! Eve slapping Angel's butt! Cheery Spike! Hulk Lorne! Hulk-Lorne turning into confetti when he dies!

    That episode is gold...
     
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  16. Mr Trick

    Mr Trick Scooby

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    Which would be fine if it was a sitcom. The other thing is if you are going to do that you have to give it more of a credible MOTW plot to hang it on. And they didn't. I thought it was pretty lame myself:p
     
  17. Guy

    Guy Scooby

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    Black Thorn
    I don't know, it reminds of episodes like 'Something Blue' and 'Beer Bad', in that it IS kind of a sitcom episode. Or, the Buffyverse equivalent of it, anyway.

    And Lorne's personal story in the episode is very nice, albeit very simple. Sometimes you just gotta go to sleep...
     
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  18. Wesley Junior

    Wesley Junior Potential

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    I never considered Season 5 boring. Imperfect, yes but boring, no. A boring season of the show to me was Season 4. The large amount of angst in that season made it hard for me to maintain my attention. Season 5 had some angst but it was a good, compelling kind of angst. It was balanced with moments of fun and comedy. I thought Harmony contributed to some of the comedy.
     
  19. Mr. Pole

    Mr. Pole My lines are mostly filler

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    Black Thorn
    I wouldn't even just say episode. Probably 80% of Whedon's writing is sitcom. It doesn't just pertain to the "funny" episodes. There is a lot of comedy in every episode. Even the most "scary" ones like Hush have a lot of sitcom in them.
     
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  20. Mr Trick

    Mr Trick Scooby

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    I don't think that's true at all. What I will add is two things. First of all the humour in Whedon's script is character driven. That's why I believe in it, and it doesn't feel forced. In that sense its the anti-sitcom humour. The point of sitcom humour normally is that the character is saying it for the purpose of making a joke or moving the plot on. But when Whedon uses humour he does it to add depth to the characters. For example a lot of Willow or Xander's humour in the early seasons are as a defence against the likes of Cordelia or the members of high sociality. Its a way for them to rebel against them by using their wit and street smarts.

    The other thing is that Whedon I think believes in mixing light and dark, and many different genres. That's what makes the end of Amends such a powerful episode because there's been such much darkness, and complex character drama leading up to it, along with some well placed humour.
     
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