Angelus in Season 4

[GraceK]

Anyone else not impressed with Angelus in season 4? Dont get me wrong, i own all the DVDS of both shows and have been an avid fan since they first aired...but for some reason, I find the portrayal of Angelus in Season 4 cringe worthy. I feel like he was a neutered version..even though ATS is supposedly the darker more adult show, I feel like Angelus was infinitely more scary and sexy in season 2 of BtvS. Season 4 Angelus does nothing but taunt everyone while locked in a cage, parade around LA like a hammy actor who thinks hes the best thing ever(and the way all the demons fawn all over him I find completely ridiculous and OCC for the verse) make big speeches, and beat up Faith. Oh and he kills the beast...I just feel he is completely over the top, mustache twirling villain...I have to be honest, Im almost embarrassed to watch...Willow,Faith and Wesley are the only redeeming parts of that arc for me. Never once do I honestly feel afraid that he will hurt someone. Am I alone in this? Maybe its because David Boreanaz is older, or the writing...I just feel like hes kind of lame in this arc.

 

[Guy]

PREACH. Season 4 Angelus is completely off. He's too overacted, too shout-y, he never really hurts anyone, the excuse to bring him back was lame, the Hannibla Lecter act in 'Soulless' was terrible... Ugh. Such a waste of a previously great villain.

 

[Monkey Pants]

Yes, I agree. I'm always a little confused on why he's so different..?

 

[thetopher]

My own head-fanon is that Angelus in S4 is actually more than a little crazy after being put through all of Angel's happy times during the time of his show, especially the Season 3 stuff.
Angel's pain at losing Buffy, then he growing feelings for Cordelia, him having friends at all really (something new that Angelus never had to put up with) then the stuff with Darla, being Connor's Dad (imagine Angulus' agony at having to witness/experience Angel's happy feelings of fatherhood?)

After all that emotional drama being inflicted on Angelus... maybe he went a little nuts when he was finally let out of the box?

For the record when Angelus is in a cage he's is actually very well written, dark and psychological. His scene's with Wesley and Connor in particular are great.
But yeah, when he's out and loose he's kinda overblown and lame.

 

[thrasherpix]

I'd have mentioned this in the Buffy dream thread, but I wasn't able to find it. I had a nightmare of Angelus last night that was really scary. I don't remember enough to make a coherent story out of it, but I do remember many scary moments in particular, and though I've dreamed of Buffy many times that was the first (and I hope last) that I dreamed of Angelus. He was much closer to the season 2 Buffy version, and an artist of evil who knew how to play people, rather than season 4 Angel's version...though there was at least a cameo of Gunn and Fred (the latter wearing a Pocahontas costume for some reason), and neither seemed particularly concerned over Angelus despite what an utter terror he was being. I don't recall any other characters (of either Buffy or Angel) being present in the nightmare.

 

[GraceK]

I also never understood the whole point of this arc. Thats one of the things that really bother me about season 4...what was the point of beast? SO we are made to believe that Jasmine, through Cordelia, orchestrated this whole thing just to be born...but how does raising the beast, raising Angelus just to kill the beast, and then trying to kill Angel fit in? As soon as she slept with Connor and got pregnant all she had to do was wait...she could have easily manipulated Connor into sacrificing that girl anyway...I feel like all that other stuff really served no purpose.

 

[Slayerofslayers]

Yeah I agree Angelus wasn't that great in these episodes. I remember being surprised because he was so good in season two of Buffy and it was disappointing to see the way he is portrayed in these episodes when I was expecting it to be interesting and exciting to have him come back again when he had been effective on Buffy. The one episode of this arc that I thought he was better in compared to the other episodes of this arc was "Orpheus" when he and Faith are seeing Angel's memories and Angelus and Angel confront one another but other than that I was disappointed.

 

[Bluebird]

I like him in season 4, but that whole season is great for me. I think there is a lack of focus for the character though. His obsession over Buffy in BtvS S2 is what made him so disturbing.

 

[GraceK]

in my opinion hes just not scary in season 4...he really comes across as a hammy and over the top....( and really, he seems more perverted than anything else) and what is all the celebrity worship from other demons? really? im sorry but that was really lame.

 

[DeadlyDuo]

in my opinion hes just not scary in season 4...he really comes across as a hammy and over the top....( and really, he seems more perverted than anything else) and what is all the celebrity worship from other demons? really? im sorry but that was really lame.

I could buy that, in the demon world, certain people would become well known and get recognised for things they've done (a bit like a film star) and other demons would be "fans" of their work, but I think the main issue is that it was not applied consistently throughout the Buffyverse therefore when it did occur it came across as silly.

 

[Fenrir]

I quite liked Angelus in Season 4. Though part of that is because he called people out on the crap they never seemed to get called out on. Was a little jarring seeing how quickly the team turned on itself though.

I also never understood the whole point of this arc. Thats one of the things that really bother me about season 4...what was the point of beast? SO we are made to believe that Jasmine, through Cordelia, orchestrated this whole thing just to be born...but how does raising the beast, raising Angelus just to kill the beast, and then trying to kill Angel fit in? As soon as she slept with Connor and got pregnant all she had to do was wait...she could have easily manipulated Connor into sacrificing that girl anyway...I feel like all that other stuff really served no purpose.

Was Angelus supposed to have killed the Beast (also bad naming there since it was applied to Glory)? It might explain the knife he crafted but Cordelia did seem a bit pissed that Angelus killing him. More background on the Beast would've been nice since he was capable of taking down some rather powerful beings.

 

[Mylie]

I quite liked Angelus in Season 4. Though part of that is because he called people out on the crap they never seemed to get called out on. Was a little jarring seeing how quickly the team turned on itself though.

I loved Soulless for that reason. Also because it just shows a different yet still perverted side to him. He was able to manipulate them all against each other in his freaking cell. They all knew not to trust him but he still was able to create doubt and insecurities, etc. All of this, just using things that Angel had learned/experienced/witnessed.

My favorite part was the Oedipus complex thing with Connor. I laughed.

 

[Fenrir]

I loved Soulless for that reason. Also because it just shows a different yet still perverted side to him. He was able to manipulate them all against each other in his freaking cell. They all knew not to trust him but he still was able to create doubt and insecurities, etc. All of this, just using things that Angel had learned/experienced/witnessed.

My favorite part was the Oedipus complex thing with Connor. I laughed.

I felt that it was a bit over the top how quickly they turned on each other but I guess it's a problem with keeping the pacing. If it'd taken too long it could've gotten a bit dull.

 

[Mr Trick]

I felt that it was a bit over the top how quickly they turned on each other but I guess it's a problem with keeping the pacing. If it'd taken too long it could've gotten a bit dull.

Yeah and I don't like that setup of him in the room and them waiting trying to get him to do something for them and him pushing their buttons. Half the time all they would have to do is turn the mic off It makes for some solid drama, but yeah it makes them look to weak. Its pretty obvious he's just saying it to get to get them. PAY NO ATTENTION!

 

[Fenrir]

Yeah and I don't like that setup of him in the room and them waiting trying to get him to do something for them and him pushing their buttons. Half the time all they would have to do is turn the mic off It makes for some solid drama, but yeah it makes them look to weak. Its pretty obvious he's just saying it to get to get them. PAY NO ATTENTION!

I think they felt they had to keep listening in case anything happened. Someone always by the cage and someone watching on the camera to ensure things don't go wrong. Like when Fred was caught by Angelus when she was trying to feed him. Had Wesley not heard the commotion that could've gone much more badly.

 

[Fuffy Baith]

what is all the celebrity worship from other demons?

I agree. I didn't like seeing Angelus being like a vampire celebrity in the bar, gossiping and that vampire girl hitting on him. Outside of Darla, Dru and Spike, I don't really want to see Angelus socializing. It makes him less scary in my opinion. I'm fine with him being a bit more goofy, in the sense that Angel in early Buffy was more brooding and serious and then got more goofy on his show. So I can see that would reflect in Angelus. He had some great moments and really creepy lines in season 4.

 

[Mr Trick]

I don't think Angelus should be goofy. A bit of that with Angel was welcome for a change. But it made Angelus less of a threat for me.

 

[GraceK]

I don't think Angelus should be goofy. A bit of that with Angel was welcome for a change. But it made Angelus less of a threat for me.

I agree...he just wasn't scary. I think someone mentioned in another post that they were trying to make him Hannibal Lecter, and it failed. That was a good point. And then he escapes and heads for the street and is literally the cheesiest ...this could be very shallow of
Me to say, but I found him sexy and frightening in season 2 of BYVS, and in this he was more like a hammy pervert. the whole
Thing was dumb.

 

[Agent Z]

I'm of the opposite view of this thread. I found Angelus in Angel Season 4 to be more threatening and vicious than he was in Buffy season 2 where he only last as long as he did because Buffy lacked the will (but not the means) to kill him.

 

[Mr Trick]

I'm of the opposite view of this thread. I found Angelus in Angel Season 4 to be more threatening and vicious than he was in Buffy season 2 where he only last as long as he did because Buffy lacked the will (but not the means) to kill him.

True, but then I think that's part of what makes that plot in Buffy so compelling that she is at such a fragile place emotionally (and because of her age), that she struggles with the idea of killing the Monster who is also the man she loves.

In Angel, Angelus is at his most threatening when battling Faith I think. Even when you have the comedy stuff during the diner scene in the past. Though I do love that scene