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Angelus is crucial to my plan

Btvs fan

Scooby
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So says evil Cordy to the Beast. I have to ask.. how ? Seriously how is Angelus crucial to her plan of giving birth to herself as Jasmine. If anything it was the opposite as Angel put 2 and 2 together from when she tried to make contact with him 🤷‍♂️
 

AlphaFoxtrot

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Well, that depends on if you think the end-game of season 4 was supposed to be? If you think it was always intended to be Jasmine the Renegade Angel, and the Beast was intended to be misdirection, then he wasn't. She was playing both us and Rocky. If you think Season four was haphazardly strung together out of smaller serialized narratives that were left open ended enough for the May writing team, and that the true ending wasn't decided on until after Firefly was canceled, well, it doesn't really matter what her plan was.
 

Btvs fan

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Well, that depends on if you think the end-game of season 4 was supposed to be? If you think it was always intended to be Jasmine the Renegade Angel, and the Beast was intended to be misdirection, then he wasn't. She was playing both us and Rocky. If you think Season four was haphazardly strung together out of smaller serialized narratives that were left open ended enough for the May writing team, and that the true ending wasn't decided on until after Firefly was canceled, well, it doesn't really matter what her plan was.
I know the original ending was meant to be Evil Cordy fighting Angel ala Becoming but even that has me scratching my head on how Angelus was crucial 🤷‍♂️
 

AlphaFoxtrot

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Well, assuming a straight plan? The Vampire with a Soul plays a pivotal part in the Tro-clon, the ruination of mankind. By bringing Angelus, you rob the Powers of their Champion. You also create a Dark Prince. Remember, Apep has triumphed in his ancient struggle over Ra, Chaos has won. All the Dark Forces of the Night now converge in Los Diabolos, and they need a leader. Prince Angelus can organize and lead that Army in their war on Humanity, and can lead them across the planet. Angelus maybe the only Vampire left from the Order of Aurlelius, and he may be the only one whose recently tasted Slayer blood. He maybe the strongest vampire in the world, and they all fear him. If you look at the First's plans, assemble an army of vampires was pretty high on the list.

Or, you know, she wanted the Beast dead and was hoping Angelus could do it? Probably not.
 

GreyWalker1958

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I know the original ending was meant to be Evil Cordy fighting Angel ala Becoming but even that has me scratching my head on how Angelus was crucial 🤷‍♂️
Too rehashy... even for Joss
 
B
Btvs fan
Well thats what the writers have said it was going to be
Priceless
Priceless
I imagine the writers discussed a lot of possibilities and this was one of many ideas

white avenger

white avenger
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It's been awhile since I watched the series, bud wasn't the statement about Angelus made prior to Charisma announcing that she was pregnant? No doubt that led to some major rewrites toward the end of the Season, especially any imagines help Angelus would have been to evil Cordy's plans.

Within the show's story line, she could have just finally remembered that Angelus doesn't work well with anyone, and any alliance with him would most likely end badly for her.
 

TriBel

Scooby
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It doesn't have to be a comment on plot. Angelus is an "absent presence" in Angel. He's crucial to Angel's concept of self, thus he determines Angel's actions. So, if you're a recovering alcoholic and your route home takes you past an off-licence, you change the route home. Have you changed it because you're determined to stay off the juice or because you're frightened you'll lapse? Do you act because you believe you're strong, or out of fear that you're weak? I can't remember the plot because it's a long time since I re-watched but her remark could simply be the text's way of showing she understood his character and was making plans based on how she thought he'd respond.
 

Bookkitty

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I'm in the middle of rewatching Angel all the way through. I don't know the last time I did and I'm on season 3 right now. The Connor crap is starting and it is so interesting trying to piece things together. So much doesn't make sense.
I knew that there were issues with Charisma even before she became pregnant, so I wonder how much was messed up as early as season 3. Plot lines start to come undone. I just finished the episode when Angel gives Cordy a wad of cash and tells her to go on vacation for a few weeks. They just spent the last few episodes dealing with her becoming a demon, deciding how important it is to have her there and have the visions herself, and trying to get Angel Investigations really flowing. There were a few episodes all about how short-handed and financially broke they were and now he is giving her what looked like thousands of dollars to leave. For multiple weeks. And she doesn't question it more than a second. Doesn't fit.
In the following episode, they state they haven't heard from her since she left, so they assume she hasn't had any visions. They aren't worried about her not calling? Plus, the Cordy we know up until now is mega-attached and concerned for baby Connor. I would have expected her to check in.

I may be forgetting things that are going to happen soon but from a "new to the show" perspective (because that's how little I remember some of these episodes), it doesn't make sense.
 

NileQT87

Billowy Coat, King of Pain
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It's obvious that Jasmine spent most of season 4 setting up distractions to keep everyone looking in every direction but at Cordy because of the pregnancy. Jasmine was extremely vulnerable for several months before she had use of a body and her powers of mass hypnotism.

The Beast, all the apocalyptic stuff (which made L.A. an all-hours feast that would eat up time for demon hunters) and Angelus were nothing more than big honking distractions to throw everyone off the scent.

Also, removing Angel from the mix removes one of the biggest threats to Jasmine herself. Unleashing Angelus is one way of taking him out of the game, as well as giving his entire team a huge headache. The miscalculation there is that Angelus hates being manipulated by anyone and that's all he was to Jasmine's plan.
 
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