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Anne & Angel in Blood Money

spikenbuffy

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There's some interactions between Anne & Angel in Blood Money, but Angel & Chanterelle (Anne) already met in Lie To Me, Angel insulted her after she talked good about vampires without knowing that they are monsters.

Do you think Angel remembered that he saw her in Lie To Me ? Do you think that the writers forgot about it ? Do you consider it an error ?
 

Priceless

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I just think Angel didn't recognise her. Chanterelle wasn't important to him, there's no reason why he would remember her, or any of the people he met in that club. Anne is also very different to Chanterelle and Angel probably couldn't imagine a scenario where she'd gone from a vamp-wannabe in Sunnydale to running a shelter for homeless youth in LA, so even if he thought he recognised her, he'd probably think he was mistaken.

I am positive the writers didn't forget Angel had already met Anne. I think that link between them is what gave them the idea to use Anne in AtS. I just wish we'd seen more of her.
 

LemonBanana

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I agree very much with Pricey, Chanterelle wasnt really important to him, but Anne was quite a big part of the series and seemed like such a nice person you couldnt imagine her being silly Chanterelle or Lily! I think it was so sweet the writers wrote Anne into the series, its always nice to see a familiar face! Love this thread thanks 😊 💕
 

Angel6

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I think he recognises her. I think he is saving her blushes by not calling it out. He’s an empathetic person, he knows she has changed hugely since he met her (as he has) and he treats her as such.
 

nightshade

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I think he might've remembered her after she tells him that she used to think vampires were the coolest, but Anne had changed so much that I don't think he would have immediately remembered her.
He could have felt he knew her from somewhere, but it didn't register that it was that club in Sunnydale.
 

Sweet Dreamer

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Angel didn't recognize Anne based on what the writer of the episode said:

Co-writer Mere Smith considered having Angel recognise Anne, as the two had met briefly during the Buffy episode Lie to Me.

She ultimately decided not too, explaining that she had trouble remembering people she'd met three days ago, let alone three years.
Source: BBC - Cult - Angel - Angel - Season Two Episode Guide - Blood Money

She confirmed also in other interviews that it's after discussing with Joss Whedon that she came to this conclusion.

So, it's not an error.
It makes sense for me that he wouldn't remember her: he talked to her less than three minutes back during their days in Sunnydale.

I'm more bothered by the way he treated her: he was manipulative and disrespectful. Not sure that winning back the money made up enough for it.
 
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Antho

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I don’t think he recognizes her. Still I think Angel is portrayed as someone who has a good memory. I remember that episode where Fred meets her professor and was nearly killed or went into a portal by a monster. Angel was capable of remember who were there what they were doing where they were sit down. It was impressive. So isn’t a bit contradictory that someone with such a good memory doesn’t remember Anne 🤔
 

Priceless

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I don’t think he recognizes her. Still I think Angel is portrayed as someone who has a good memory. I remember that episode where Fred meets her professor and was nearly killed or went into a portal by a monster. Angel was capable of remember who were there what they were doing where they were sit down. It was impressive. So isn’t a bit contradictory that someone with such a good memory doesn’t remember Anne 🤔
I'd forgotten that. It's a very good point. Angel should have remembered Anne. Maybe the 100 years he spent in hell affected those memories and he was better at short term memory?
 
Antho
Antho
Oh that’s something I didn’t think about. You could be right

Antho

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Another thing I just think about. Anne could have remember Angel too. Because he wasn’t very nice to her at first. And that sect seems to be a pretty big thing in her life. She remembers Buffy while she never spoke to her. Yes Buffy saved her but in her shoes i think i would remember the guy who talk badly to me.
 

Priceless

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Another thing I just think about. Anne could have remember Angel too. Because he wasn’t very nice to her at first. And that sect seems to be a pretty big thing in her life. She remembers Buffy while she never spoke to her. Yes Buffy saved her but in her shoes i think i would remember the guy who talk badly to me.
I think Anne could have remembered Angel, but didn't want to bring up her past. She was a different person to the the one Angel met and as he didn't mention it, she probably felt no need to mention it either.
 

Faded90

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Another thing I just think about. Anne could have remember Angel too. Because he wasn’t very nice to her at first. And that sect seems to be a pretty big thing in her life. She remembers Buffy while she never spoke to her. Yes Buffy saved her but in her shoes i think i would remember the guy who talk badly to me.
I think Anne is someone who has had most people treat her badly or be mean to her though. Buffy actually doing something good for her was what made her so memorable because it’s likely not happened often
 

thrasherpix

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Being threatened by a marauding band of vampires would also cloud her memory beyond that moment of several days (she'd still remember a lot, most of it that we the viewers did not get to see and what we did she would not recognize as significant, but not likely some chance encounter with a guy she met briefly, especially one who dressed like another member that she may have been friends with which could easily confuse her memories further), causing the other memories to fade away into obscurity. That would be compounded if she dealt with the trauma with some hardcore drinking & drugging, which I could see her doing.

Out of those who warned her she'd probably remember Buffy the most, especially as she (not Angel) was recognized at the school to eventually get a Class Protector Award. She might remember the others, but I don't think she ever saw them with Buffy and wouldn't know them, so her brain wouldn't consider it important enough to remember.
 

thrasherpix

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But Chanterelle wasn’t at Sunnydalehigh school. Was she 🤔.
Fair enough, and now I'm wondering who WERE these kids? They look like kids to me, but maybe it's easy to mistake adults for kids when adults are playing kids (and they act like kids, but then so do many adults).

Still, Buffy saved their butts, not Angel. Buffy is the one who is going to be impressed on her memory, not Angel who she briefly met under circumstances not important compared to nearly being murdered. I'm not surprised she remembers Buffy and not Angel.
 

Faded90

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Fair enough, and now I'm wondering who WERE these kids? They look like kids to me, but maybe it's easy to mistake adults for kids when adults are playing kids (and they act like kids, but then so do many adults).

Still, Buffy saved their butts, not Angel. Buffy is the one who is going to be impressed on her memory, not Angel who she briefly met under circumstances not important compared to nearly being murdered. I'm not surprised she remembers Buffy and not Angel.
I think they’re similar to the kids in Anne, lost souls clinging to something to belong to but probably don’t have other people who care for them. They aren’t on anyone’s ‘radars’ so to speak
 

Ethan Reigns

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The exchange between Anne/Chanterelle and Angel went like this:

Willow: The Lonely Ones?
Angel: Vampires.
Xander: Oh! We usually call them the nasty, pointy, bitey ones.
Chantarelle: So many people have that misconception. But they who walk with the night are not interested in harming anyone. They are creatures above us. Exalted!
Angel: You're a fool.
Xander gives him a look.
Chantarelle: You don't have to be so confrontational about it. Other viewpoints than yours may be valid, you know. (goes away)


I don't think Anne would be that upset about how people talked to her because shortly after, Buffy lambasted the bunch of them for being on the menu:

"What I see is that, right after the sun goes down, Spike and all of his friends are going to be pigging out at the all-you-can-eat moron bar."

Yet when Anne/Chanterelle and Buffy meet again in "Anne", Chanterelle recognizes her but all she wants to do is change her name to "Anne" which is the name Buffy used in the diner. As long as she can change her identity, Anne feels that no one can criticize her for her actions as Chanterelle and Angel's comment is no longer valid. It is quite possible that Angel would not recognize the determined aid worker in "Blood Money" from being the self-absorbed ditz in "Lie to Me".
 

AlphaFoxtrot

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Darla couldn't remember her own name. It's probably not even a name lost to history, Maestro seems like the type to insist on a church funeral and formal burial. But if Darla can't remember her name, then surely Angel could forget Anne.
 

thrasherpix

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I think they’re similar to the kids in Anne, lost souls clinging to something to belong to but probably don’t have other people who care for them. They aren’t on anyone’s ‘radars’ so to speak
One has to make A LOT of allowances for street (or even just neglected) kids to have the kind of money they obviously did (at least a patron), though now I'm wondering how long that bar was there. It's not like Covenant House would've dressed them up like that and gave them all those props. I suppose one or more could've stolen the 'rents credit cards and the SPD would be too dumb or apathetic to track them down. (And it just occurs to me, vampires are attracted to bright colors, so their wearing dark colors would actually provide a bit of protection from the hunting vamp as the vampire wannabes walked the night! :D )

Granted, I find it easier to believe that Buffy managed to get a waitress job and support herself when she'd be getting less than minimum wage (perhaps only tips) but that's another topic.

They didn't know Buffy so they weren't from Buffy and Ford's stomping grounds. I find it unlikely he had the wealth to transport his human sacrifices there (it should be too hard to gather them in Sunnydale) for reasons I don't feel like using a paragraph to explain (but ranges from his medical care to that point to being in Buffy's income bracket, even a presumably better one before Buffy's parents divorced), and I'm more interested in how he learned about Slayers (even just seeing Buffy dust a vamp, which Buffy wouldn't have realized, wouldn't have let him know all that). I also wonder how likely someone that sick with tumors could operate without major personality shifts and mood swings that Buffy couldn't detect.


Heh, wouldn't it be funny if he was somehow related to the Mayor (or a Mayor's cohort) who run the club as a snack bar for his vampire cohorts (that would explain the seeming lack of cover charge, and also why Spike didn't already know of it), and perhaps even loaned it out to Ford to get rid of that pesky Slayer...now THIS is why it's fun to think about these eps more than the writers did, because we can make it so much more interesting! :)
 
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