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Anyone got a feeling this won't get made?

white avenger

white avenger
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It has to be remembered, the movie Star Trek franchise didn't ever come about, despite a very loyal and vocal fan base, until after "Star Wars" and "The Empire Strikes Back" were such huge successes. If something with a plot line about demon fighters or something similar were to have the same result, a Buffy reboot would be more likely, with or without Whedon or any of the original cast.
 

Btvs fan

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It has to be remembered, the movie Star Trek franchise didn't ever come about, despite a very loyal and vocal fan base, until after "Star Wars" and "The Empire Strikes Back" were such huge successes. If something with a plot line about demon fighters or something similar were to have the same result, a Buffy reboot would be more likely, with or without Whedon or any of the original cast.
But Trek 1 is boring pretentious bollocks with some weird Roddenbury obsessed Gimp costumes and which he would introduce into the Next Generation and only got changed after the cast complained about them. It wasn't until Wrath of Khan (that Roddenbury wasn't a fan of) that Trek really took off. A big irony there is the Director was not even a fan of the show when he did it.
He even redid the plot from 1 for Voyage Home albiet in a far superior way with a more satisfying pay off.

Btw DS9 is still the best of the shows imo
 

white avenger

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But Trek 1 is boring
True, but "The Wrath Of Khan" made up for it tenfold. I remember seeing people actually crying in the lobby after Spock died, and the line, "I have been, and always shall be, your friend," summed up the whole Kirk/Spock dynamic perfectly.

Btw DS9 is still the best of the shows imo
The last two Seasons, with Worf's marriage ending so tragically, then the return of her personality in a different body is one of my favorite "Trek" subplots, and the old blues song, "The Way You Look Tonight," took on an entirely new meaning for me.

(Never get an old trekker started on this subject unless you want your thread to sink into shambles)
 

forbuss

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I honestly hope it doesn't happen. I'd be more into a "reboot" of the animated series that almost was but then never was. I'd also be more into a Buffy Netflix movie. Of course in my dreams the original cast would return for this. Please learn from the Charmed and Roswell reboots that had fans outraged. In the words of Holly Marie Combs, these shows essentially say "I guess we are all too old now to play the characters we played 15 years ago".

I pray everyday that the CW doesn't get their hands on the rights or develop a pilot.
 
HowiMetdaSlayer
HowiMetdaSlayer
agree about the CW part

Oromous

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I'd also be more into a Buffy Netflix movie. Of course in my dreams the original cast would return for this. Please learn from the Charmed and Roswell reboots that had fans outraged. In the words of Holly Marie Combs, these shows essentially say "I guess we are all too old now to play the characters we played 15 years ago".
I would love for the original cast to return for a reboot Netflix movie as well, but given what I know on the history of TV reboots, there haven't been many strong cases where a reboot embodies the spirit of the original show. The only exception was Ash vs. Evil Dead, but only because Sam Raimi was on board, and because it wasn't even technically a reboot. You would need Whedon on board to make a Buffy reboot movie or series to be appealing to the original fans IMO, but that would defeat the purpose of a reboot since the essence of rebooting a series means to start anew, so getting Whedon back again seems contradictory. In that sense, most reboots almost always suck or disappoint because they lost sight of what made the original series so appealing.
 
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thrasherpix
thrasherpix
Jem was one of the worst reboots (save maybe Heathers), giving the exact opposite message of the original (even if to sell toys), and worse, had fans say why they loved the original and made it sound like praise for the reboot, which angered them.

forbuss

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I would love for the original cast to return for a reboot Netflix movie as well, but given what I know on the history of TV reboots, there haven't been many strong cases where a reboot embodies the spirit of the original show. The only exception was Ash vs. Evil Dead, but only because Sam Raimi was on board, and because it wasn't even technically a reboot. You would need Whedon on board to make a Buffy reboot movie or series to be appealing to the original fans IMO, but that would defeat the purpose of a reboot since the essence of rebooting a series means to start anew, so getting Whedon back again seems contradictory. In that sense, most reboots almost always suck or disappoint because they lost sight of what made the original series so appealing.
I would be more a fan of Marti coming back to be the show runner. I'm not sure how people generally feel about her on this forum, but I am a big Marti Noxon fan. She did an absolutely unbelievable job on Lifetime/Hulu's show "UnREAL". I think Joss should be involved but I have a hard time with Joss for reasons that are known to most (I think).
 
Priceless
Priceless
I love Marti, but I'd like to see Joss back
HowiMetdaSlayer
HowiMetdaSlayer
dunno Marti did the worst 2 seasons

Myheadsgonenumb

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For just a film I would be happy with any of the old Mutant Enemy writers stepping into writer/ executive producer role, and I'm sure they could get back someone from their old stable of directors so it would still have that Buffy 'feel'.
But SMG has no interest in making a film or being in a show again (they would have to offer her A LOT of money, and even then she might not be interested, because I don't think her reluctance to return has anything to do with the money) David Boreanaz isn't interested in returning - and of course, they either couldn't use Angel and Spike or Angel and Spike would both have to have shanshued several years ago because no one is believing these 50 year old men are immortal vampires that a teenager fell in love with.

As for reboot or a continuation or whatever they had planned - I always hated the idea. If the outrage over Charmed has made them cautious with proceeding with Buffy then - good. With all the constant shows being developed for all the new streaming platforms, I think reboots of shows whose original fans are still relatively young don't have much of a place. The OG Buffy fans aren't going to watch a new Buffy show purely for the nostalgia (it won't have any, being a reboot) and it makes no sense that it would be massively popular amongst new fans - they have all this programming at their fingertips, what about an unoriginal concept based on a vampire hunting show from 20 years ago is going to make it appeal to them? If they have any interest in Buffy at all - the original is still there and the later seasons aren't even that dated, they can watch it any time. If they're not interested in the original, why would they be interested in a reboot?
 

Oromous

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As for reboot or a continuation or whatever they had planned - I always hated the idea. If the outrage over Charmed has made them cautious with proceeding with Buffy then - good. With all the constant shows being developed for all the new streaming platforms, I think reboots of shows whose original fans are still relatively young don't have much of a place. The OG Buffy fans aren't going to watch a new Buffy show purely for the nostalgia (it won't have any, being a reboot) and it makes no sense that it would be massively popular amongst new fans - they have all this programming at their fingertips, what about an unoriginal concept based on a vampire hunting show from 20 years ago is going to make it appeal to them? If they have any interest in Buffy at all - the original is still there and the later seasons aren't even that dated, they can watch it any time. If they're not interested in the original, why would they be interested in a reboot?
In spite of what I said in my last post, I realized that there have been successful reboots in the past like Battlestar Galactica and even better movie reboots like Casino Royale and Rise of the Planet of the Apes. However, with Buffy, I feel like it's an exception because of what the original concept was, and what made it so special.

Whedon created the series to subvert the cliche of the average blonde girl becoming the victim in horror films, and that type of subversion was more popular in the self-aware meta craze in the '90s. What would the new reboot have to bring to the table that the OG one didn't? What new messages would they have about adolescent struggles that other shows like Riverdale or even Chilling Adventures of Sabrina haven't tackled already, or Stranger Things for that matter? And with how the Twilight films have turned out in their portrayal of vampire romance, I don't know if a reboot of this generation would have a better grasp on making such a complex relationship work without becoming cringey. They would probably become inspired by those movies even, if not subconsciously. The presence of similar shows like Buffy nowadays makes it hard to imagine that a reboot could have anything new to say that others haven't said already.
 
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Spanky

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it hard to imagine that a reboot could have anything new to say that others haven't said already.
Of course it would. It could really delve into what it is to be a human and femininity. How Buffy could be considered, or see herself as, less than human and/or less than a woman with having "tainted" demonic bloodlines, etc. It could be what makes a girl, a girl, framed in the modern setting of identity politics. Additionally why does she love a vampire? Could it be because of the demon inside her, self-loathing, etc.

It could really go in-depth on issues the original only skirted around and things the other shows aren't doing.
 
Oromous
Oromous
The moment you said "identity politics," it just gives me bad vibes, that this would turn into one of those "woke" series bent on misandry.
Priceless
Priceless
Oh god that sounds awful lol

Spanky

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@Oromous "that this would turn into one of those 'woke' series bent on misandry."
The original series, initially, could be said the same of. Except it was more subtle and nuanced than many of the shows today.
Absentee father
Bad boy first love turns into a monster
Father figure drugs and manipulates her
Group of men want to control her
Mother's boyfriend is a creep
Male friend lusts after and makes inappropriate comments
A phallic monster controlled by frat boys almost eats her
 
Priceless
Priceless
Xander lasted 7 years, no show that is bent on misandry would allow that

Oromous

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@Oromous "that this would turn into one of those 'woke' series bent on misandry."
The original series, initially, could be said the same of. Except it was more subtle and nuanced than many of the shows today.
Absentee father
Bad boy first love turns into a monster
Father figure drugs and manipulates her
Group of men want to control her
Mother's boyfriend is a creep
Male friend lusts after and makes inappropriate comments
A phallic monster controlled by frat boys almost eats her
Yes, subtle. That's the key.

But the political climate has changed, hasn't it?
 

Myheadsgonenumb

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How Buffy could be considered, or see herself as, less than human and/or less than a woman with having "tainted" demonic bloodlines
I don't think it's a good idea to create a black slayer in the name of diversity and then have her struggle with whether or not she is a full woman or having 'tainted bloodlines'.
Yes - towards the very end of the show - they say the slayer was created by putting demon essence into the original slayer, but they never lean on the idea that that means the girls aren't human. It would be very weird to bring that up and make that the focus of a new show when it was such a non entity in the old show. And disastrous to make the black slayer the one who grapples with the idea of not being 'fully human'. There's a bit of ugly history about African Americans only counting as 3/5 of a person.
 

Give Us A Kiss

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After watching the 4th Season of Veronica Mars, I can safely say that I am mostly against reboots (I do watch the Roswell reboot so...), that reboot should not be watched by anyone, stick to seasons 1-2.

So if a Buffy reboot was made, chances are I wouldn't even give it a chance.
 

Spanky

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I don't think it's a good idea to create a black slayer in the name of diversity
I never said black slayer. Wasn't even thinking black slayer. Forgot all about a black slayer until your post.
 
Myheadsgonenumb
Myheadsgonenumb
The USP of the reboot seems to be 'black slayer' - so if it ever does get made, that is almost certainly one aspect we will see. The reasoning behind a reboot seems to be to address the diversity issues of the original.
HowiMetdaSlayer
HowiMetdaSlayer
you know it freaks me out when we actually agree on something! 😵

HowiMetdaSlayer

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I was one of the few that actually liked the idea of a reboot, but I think the overwhelming negative internet response pretty much killed that. Between that, covid, and whatever behind the scenes we're not privy to, I doubt this will ever see the light of day. For that I say thanks a lot. 😒 Gee what if the creators of BSG reboot had listened to fans? No watchable BSG. I'm sorry, ok not sorry, but the original was terrible! I remember internet peeps losing their sheet over Heath Ledger being cast as The Joker. Then look what happened. Now I know that reboots/remakes has a spotty history, but at least (or pretend to) try to keep an open mind. Just saying. :oops:
 
Spanky
Spanky
I was one of the few that actually liked the idea of a reboot. We both can't be one of the few that actually liked the idea of a reboot.

Oromous

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I was one of the few that actually liked the idea of a reboot, but I think the overwhelming negative internet response pretty much killed that. Between that, covid, and whatever behind the scenes we're not privy to, I doubt this will ever see the light of day. For that I say thanks a lot. 😒 Gee what if the creators of BSG reboot had listened to fans? No watchable BSG. I'm sorry, ok not sorry, but the original was terrible! I remember internet peeps losing their sheet over Heath Ledger being cast as The Joker. Then look what happened. Now I know that reboots/remakes has a spotty history, but at least (or pretend to) try to keep an open mind. Just saying. :oops:
Movie reboots are great. Batman Begins really revised what Batman means in our age of terrorism and government mistrust (not to mention grounding him to a detective role that would be further developed in Matt Reeves' upcoming Batman film).

But I think TV reboots, as far I know, have trouble setting a cleaner and more stellar record.

I think that most successful movie reboots I know of had the privilege of "fixing" the problems their predecessors had, like Casino Royale doing away with the silliness of Die Another Day or Batman Begins doing the same for Batman & Robin. Buffy, while having many problematic '90s stereotypes, just wasn't nearly as "crash and burn disastrous" to require that much fixing or tweaking. Its feminist ideas and themes can still be quite relevant today in spite of the problems.

But I guess the thing I'm skeptical and cynical about isn't essentially the idea of a reboot. My skepticism lies more with the talents available that could bring about a successful reboot. You really need a clear voice from a showrunner who knows what he or she wants to do with a reboot. I'm not familiar with Marti Noxon's work, so I can't really speak for her. Christopher Nolan's previous work were experimental projects that play with storytelling in unconventional ways (like Memento and Following) while Martin Campbell already did a reboot of James Bond in GoldenEye, bringing Bond to the more gritty post-Cold War era of the '90s. I would prefer someone with that kind of background experience on tackling related material to Buffy, perhaps a strong feminist voice even that doesn't necessarily play on the tired conventions of modern feminist politics, or a racial voice that doesn't play on the BLM politics.

The idea of tackling the diversity issues in the OG series with a black Slayer can be a good direction, I'd concede to that. It seems like the right time anyway for that kind of show to exist, what with the racial themes present in Lovecraft Country and Get Out, especially with the latter playing with racial conventions in a refreshing and clever way. Maybe the new Buffy could indeed do for racial issues what the OG Buffy did for feminist issues. A kick-butt black female Slayer, if done well, could set forth a whole new zeitgeist of geek culture the way OG Buffy did back in the '90s.
 

Myheadsgonenumb

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The thing is, some franchises have a long history of reboots. Every time there is new actor playing Batman there is essentially a reboot. Off the top of my head I can think of the 60s TV version, Michael Keaton, Val Kilmer and George Clooney all before Christian Bale took over. And isn't it Ben Affleck now? Superman is the same - there have been plenty of T.V and film incarnations of him, none of which really trouble themselves with the continuity of what came before. Toby Maguire Spiderman doesn't seem that old to me but there's already a rapidly ageing new set of Spiderman movies with someone else. James Bond has been rebooting since Sean Connery turned into Roger Moore, Doctor Who has been rebooting since William Hartnel became Patrick Troughton. New Who is considered the reboot but is actually just a continuation after decades off air because of the way the show works.

The thing with the superheroes and Bond is that have original source material that is forever being extended (well I suppose the last Bond book has been written) and can therefore keep pulling from that and choosing different aspects to include, different villains, different sidekicks etc. Bond had the books to work through and can then create original scripts that have the same feel, or just remake a previous book (that's not really any more 'rebooting' than making another version of Pride and Prejudice would be 'rebooting', its not - it's just another adaptation of the same source material).

Doctor Who had it's ability to keep continuing, and rewrite it's own continuity, and change the Doctor and the Tardis completely, written into it very early on, so 'rebooting' has been part of the fabric of the show for 50 years.

For shows like Buffy and Charmed though - they are their own original material and tell a consistent, linear story with no ability to change actor or rewrite their own history built into them. Remaking Buffy is more like rewriting Pride and Prejudice than it is rebooting New Who, or making a new Batman movie or making an adaption of P & P. (And you can't just add zombies - because Buffy already has zombies). Telling the same story in the same medium is pointless, telling a different story in the same medium is only going to invite comparisons and when the original is so beloved and critically acclaimed (and not that old!) that is unlikely to go well for the new version and choosing a different medium to tell a story - making a new Buffy film - I mean are people really going to get excited about someone new playing Buffy? And telling a different story in a different medium with different cast and characters is just using the 'vampire slayer' title as a cheat to get a quick, ready made audience.

The best choices are to either use the old cast and tell a continuation of the show itself (like the X Files did) - but the vast majority of the old cast are uninterested and even fans would view it with trepidation in case it ruined its own legacy, or stick in the same verse - so the events of the show still happened, but with a new generation - about one or a handful of slayers in the modern world. But original Buffy was so special and so groundbreaking that that would still come with a lot of weight that it might fail to carry - what is the purpose of this continuation besides making money? What does this show actually have to say - why watch this and not just the old episodes? Plus this will certainly ruin the continuity of the comics, which are supposed to be canon, so is this new show going to attract a following which is worth destroying the comics for the comic fans?

I think if there had been more spin offs than just Angel, if it had established itself as a many-show-universe that had less and less to do with it's parent show and had more leads than just Buffy and later Angel, then they could successfully bring in a new show now like they are creating new Star Treks. But Buffy the character is such an anchor in her own verse that a new version of her will not go down well and without her there's not much reason to care.

I think Next Gen managed to be as successful as it was because it had no where near as much competition back in the 80s and 90s as a reboot would now. I used to watch it, not because I like Star Trek (I don't), but because it was what was on on a Wednesday night. From its success they span out all the other shows on the different ships, and introduced Enterprise in the early 00s and then the films of the 'young' OG crew so the new shows exist within a huge tradition of continuation and diversifying the universe, but they are benefiting from the success of a reboot before reboots were a thing and there wasn't a whole lot on the telly.
Buffy, on the other hand, is quite a compact verse and a new show, for which there is no tradition, would be up against masses of competition and trying to say something new enough to be worthwhile making, whilst keeping enough of the original flavour to make it still 'Buffy' and battling to not annoy old fans but to attract new fans ... and all the while the OG show would be sitting there, still beloved , still groundbreaking, still heart breaking, with still some of the best acting and writing on television even after 20 years making the whole endeavour seem just a little bit pointless.
 
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