Anyone got a feeling this won't get made?

[DeadlyDuo]

I honestly hope it doesn't happen. I'd be more into a "reboot" of the animated series that almost was but then never was. I'd also be more into a Buffy Netflix movie. Of course in my dreams the original cast would return for this. Please learn from the Charmed and Roswell reboots that had fans outraged. In the words of Holly Marie Combs, these shows essentially say "I guess we are all too old now to play the characters we played 15 years ago".

I pray everyday that the CW doesn't get their hands on the rights or develop a pilot.

The Roswell reboot seems alright. However, I never watched the original so maybe that affects my view on it.

In spite of what I said in my last post, I realized that there have been successful reboots in the past like Battlestar Galactica and even better movie reboots like Casino Royale and Rise of the Planet of the Apes. However, with Buffy, I feel like it's an exception because of what the original concept was, and what made it so special.

Casino Royale is a bit overrated in my view. It's decent enough but it's not "Bond" if you know what I mean.

Of course it would. It could really delve into what it is to be a human and femininity. How Buffy could be considered, or see herself as, less than human and/or less than a woman with having "tainted" demonic bloodlines, etc. It could be what makes a girl, a girl, framed in the modern setting of identity politics. Additionally why does she love a vampire? Could it be because of the demon inside her, self-loathing, etc.

It could really go in-depth on issues the original only skirted around and things the other shows aren't doing.

Identity politics needs to stay the hell away from any Buffy show. It's divisive and the moment a show starts going "woke" , the audience is going to start dropping like flies especially if they don't agree with the narrative and agenda being pushed.

Have you ever suffered through a Netflix movie?

Netflix is having issues with that Cuties movie. That was a really bad move on their part.

Martin Campbell already did a reboot of James Bond in GoldenEye, bringing Bond to the more gritty post-Cold War era of the '90s.

GoldenEye is the best Bond film in my opinion, so much better than the Daniel Craig Bond films.

I would prefer someone with that kind of background experience on tackling related material to Buffy, perhaps a strong feminist voice even that doesn't necessarily play on the tired conventions of modern feminist politics, or a racial voice that doesn't play on the BLM politics.

The idea of tackling the diversity issues in the OG series with a black Slayer can be a good direction, I'd concede to that. It seems like the right time anyway for that kind of show to exist, what with the racial themes present in Lovecraft Country and Get Out, especially with the latter playing with racial conventions in a refreshing and clever way. Maybe the new Buffy could indeed do for racial issues what the OG Buffy did for feminist issues. A kick-butt black female Slayer, if done well, could set forth a whole new zeitgeist of geek culture the way OG Buffy did back in the '90s.

I don't want the colour of black Buffy's skin to be a plot point in any form at all. Just let her be black and treat it as normal without it needing to be mentioned. The reboot already feels like a potential box ticking exercise (given the fact that making Buffy black seems to be the driving force behind the proposed reboot), so don't make it an actual box ticking exercise.

 

[Buffy Summers]

I don't think it's a good idea to create a black slayer in the name of diversity and then have her struggle with whether or not she is a full woman or having 'tainted bloodlines'.

Yeah, they would never do that. Which is sort of unfortunate in a general sense because (though I understand the reasoning) it restricts the material an actress would be given in that role. Which will make it more difficult to write something unique so it's not just expecting a diverse lead or the fact that it's a remake to bring the show success without anything backing it up. It would be nice if we didn't have to worry about people looking for reasons to be offended at everything, and could just enjoy storytelling.

 

[Btvs fan]

I'm guessing the original idea was to make a straight up copy show albiet with a black Buffy character. The reaction was so negative they backtracked they were "no no its a Sequel" but then realised crap we need to write an actual sequel. Which is where its fallen down.

 

[DeadlyDuo]

I'm guessing the original idea was to make a straight up copy show albiet with a black Buffy character. The reaction was so negative they backtracked they were "no no its a Sequel" but then realised crap we need to write an actual sequel. Which is where its fallen down.

I think it's the fact the original show is so beloved and still more or less holds up well today (a few episodes aside) that a reboot was always going to be a hard sell. People hate wokeness, hence the phrase "go woke, go broke". This is clearly being demonstrated in sports right now where the NBA, NFL, and MLB (which have embraced the BLM rhetoric and gone "woke") are getting lower ratings than the PGA (who aren't preaching divisive politics). Golf is doing better ratings wise than basketball, baseball and football (America's version of rugby, only not as hardcore since Britain does it without protective gear).

The only thing that people were told about the reboot was that Buffy was going to be black. That's it, and without other details, that just seems like the driving force reason to remake it in order to be "woke". I would say reaction would've been even more negative if they'd announced the reboot in the current climate with a black Buffy because it would've looked like pandering to certain factions. It's not like the Fresh Prince of Bel Air reboot (which is being made) which honours the original whilst taking a more serious approach.

Spike would not be able to exist as he did 20 years ago. He was the most unpolitically correct character in the series (probably one of the reasons why fans loved him) and people are too easily offended and overly sensitive nowadays. His bad behaviour in the later seasons (which even fans call him out on) would have calls for him to be "cancelled" especially if he was a white male. The AR scene is bad enough where both characters are the same race, imagine what it would be like if Buffy was black and Spike was white, especially with the rhetoric of "white supremacy" and "white privilege" (both lies cooked up by a certain crowd) going on at the moment.

Such was the lukewarm (at best) response to this reboot that the would be show runner felt the need to come out and say that they weren't replacing the beloved characters from the original. Nobody wants a "woke" Buffy show.

 

[Btvs fan]

I think it's the fact the original show is so beloved and still more or less holds up well today (a few episodes aside) that a reboot was always going to be a hard sell. People hate wokeness, hence the phrase "go woke, go broke". This is clearly being demonstrated in sports right now where the NBA, NFL, and MLB (which have embraced the BLM rhetoric and gone "woke") are getting lower ratings than the PGA (who aren't preaching divisive politics). Golf is doing better ratings wise than basketball, baseball and football (America's version of rugby, only not as hardcore since Britain does it without protective gear).

The only thing that people were told about the reboot was that Buffy was going to be black. That's it, and without other details, that just seems like the driving force reason to remake it in order to be "woke". I would say reaction would've been even more negative if they'd announced the reboot in the current climate with a black Buffy because it would've looked like pandering to certain factions. It's not like the Fresh Prince of Bel Air reboot (which is being made) which honours the original whilst taking a more serious approach.

Spike would not be able to exist as he did 20 years ago. He was the most unpolitically correct character in the series (probably one of the reasons why fans loved him) and people are too easily offended and overly sensitive nowadays. His bad behaviour in the later seasons (which even fans call him out on) would have calls for him to be "cancelled" especially if he was a white male. The AR scene is bad enough where both characters are the same race, imagine what it would be like if Buffy was black and Spike was white, especially with the rhetoric of "white supremacy" and "white privilege" (both lies cooked up by a certain crowd) going on at the moment.

Such was the lukewarm (at best) response to this reboot that the would be show runner felt the need to come out and say that they weren't replacing the beloved characters from the original. Nobody wants a "woke" Buffy show.

Actually they're would be a lot that wouldn't work. You can't have Angel falling in love with Buffy the first time he sees her at 15, dating her at 16, sleeping with her at 17 then dumping her at 18. That was iffy even then. For modern days it's a defo no no.

Nice guy Xander verbally abusing all the women he dates.

Joss even admits that Willow should be Bi in today's world but back then could only be straight gay.

Buffy could not stab a 17 Yr old girl and get away with it like she did in 99.

As for Anya and her body count....

 

[DeadlyDuo]

Actually they're would be a lot that wouldn't work. You can't have Angel falling in love with Buffy the first time he sees her at 15, dating her at 16, sleeping with her at 17 then dumping her at 18. That was iffy even then. For modern days it's a defo no no.

Nice guy Xander verbally abusing all the women he dates.

Joss even admits that Willow should be Bi in today's world but back then could only be straight gay.

Buffy could not stab a 17 Yr old girl and get away with it like she did in 99.

As for Anya and her body count....

Of course there is elements that wouldn't fly today, but overall the show still stands up pretty well, enough to not warrant a reboot.

 

[Oromous]

Actually they're would be a lot that wouldn't work. You can't have Angel falling in love with Buffy the first time he sees her at 15, dating her at 16, sleeping with her at 17 then dumping her at 18. That was iffy even then. For modern days it's a defo no no.

Nice guy Xander verbally abusing all the women he dates.

Joss even admits that Willow should be Bi in today's world but back then could only be straight gay.

Buffy could not stab a 17 Yr old girl and get away with it like she did in 99.

As for Anya and her body count....

And don't get me started on Riley and the entirety of season 4... Yikes. You would have the entire cast members apologizing next season with a PSA message "13 Reasons Why" style that says it's not okay to gaslight women into dating you. Spike's sexbot would also have to be removed entirely, maybe replaced with an A.I. girlfriend (on his computer) instead.

 

[Mr Trick]

@DeadlyDuo Actually there's been a lot of praise for Cuties as a movie with its heart in the right place and a very good drama. It was the promotion of the film which was more problematic.

Now with the virus delaying more projects I wonder if we won't see this till like 2022/23 at the earliest. Not sure if they had a planned release for it anyway. Pretty sure it will still happen.

 

[DeadlyDuo]

@DeadlyDuo Actually there's been a lot of praise for Cuties as a movie with its heart in the right place and a very good drama. It was the promotion of the film which was more problematic.

Now with the virus delaying more projects I wonder if we won't see this till like 2022/23 at the earliest. Not sure if they had a planned release for it anyway. Pretty sure it will still happen.

There has been a lot of criticism of cuties, especially the scenes of 11 year olds twerking in scantily clad outfits. The promotional poster may have been problematic but is also apparently a fairly accurate representation of the film.

 

[Mr Trick]

There has been a lot of criticism of cuties, especially the scenes of 11 year olds twerking in scantily clad outfits. The promotional poster may have been problematic but is also apparently a fairly accurate representation of the film.

Sure, but if its representing a serious real life subject matter than I don't see the issue. I'm sure the filmmakers are not condoning the culture depicted in the film their just showing it. Sadly things like that are very true to reality.

 

[Taake]

Let's stick to the topic please.

 

[thrasherpix]

To emphasize something DeadlyDuo said, at least for me, and I'm sure a great many others, if we were given hints about the show and characters that didn't mention race (or other checklist items), I do expect people would be excited by it...and most wouldn't care that Buffy turned out to be black (hey, black skin is even more of a death flag in horror movie than blonde hair) in the new version once we got to see it, assuming it was a real story focused on individual characters as the original was rather than cynical on the nose pandering (speaking of which, most of the least like Buffy and Angel eps are where it got too on the nose regarding social issues so that it interfered with immersion in the story, though otherwise it was great as long as story and character came first), and the few that did would be ignored.

 

[DeadlyDuo]

To emphasize something DeadlyDuo said, at least for me, and I'm sure a great many others, if we were given hints about the show and characters that didn't mention race (or other checklist items), I do expect people would be excited by it...and most wouldn't care that Buffy turned out to be black in the new version once we got to saw it, at least giving it a real chance (hey, black skin is even more of a death flag in horror movie than blonde hair), and the few that did would be ignored.

Exactly. I still think people would be a bit suspicious about a reboot, however because it wouldn't seem like it was being done purely to tick a box, then it allows fans to come round to the idea. If it turned out the new Buffy was black, it would be fine because it wouldn't seem like the whole point of the exercise.

I don't want Buffy's race to be a plot point or defining characteristic. It shouldn't matter what colour someone's skin is, unfortunately given the current climate, I doubt that Buffy's race won't be made into a storyline for an episode.

 

[Faded90]

And don't get me started on Riley and the entirety of season 4... Yikes. You would have the entire cast members apologizing next season with a PSA message "13 Reasons Why" style that says it's not okay to gaslight women into dating you. Spike's sexbot would also have to be removed entirely, maybe replaced with an A.I. girlfriend (on his computer) instead.

Riley and Xander’s attitudes of ‘it’s irrelevant what we do wrong. We wouldn’t have to do something wrong if you did something right’ attitudes would not fly at all today. Or at least they certainly wouldn’t be able to tell us that Xander is for some reason the ‘heart’ of the group (mostly attached to him because they couldn’t think of another role for him) and we wouldn’t have Riley then return after acting terribly with a smug ‘look at what you could have had Buffy!’.
The show would have to acknowledge that the way they act/acted was not ok

 

[Myheadsgonenumb]

Riley and Xander’s attitudes of ‘it’s irrelevant what we do wrong. We wouldn’t have to do something wrong if you did something right’ attitudes would not fly at all today. Or at least they certainly wouldn’t be able to tell us that Xander is for some reason the ‘heart’ of the group (mostly attached to him because they couldn’t think of another role for him) and we wouldn’t have Riley then return after acting terribly with a smug ‘look at what you could have had Buffy!’.
The show would have to acknowledge that the way they act/acted was not ok

I think that might be wishful thinking I'm afraid. Riley and Xander were written as good guys, the writers think they were good guys and they responded to people disliking Riley by telling us we just didn't like Riley because we preferred Buffy miserable. Riley wasn't OK at the time, there was criticism and we still got what we did.

I think writers are still just as capable of being blind to the awfulness of their creations, and still unwilling to listen to fair criticism.

 

[Aracoth]

I am not sure on my thoughts about it actually because it will never be the exact same. As for making Buffy a black woman... I don't understand this decision as there are already at least 4 prominent black side characters throughout the show (Trick happens to be a favourite character of mine cause of his style and sarcasm and indifference to a lot of things) but he also brings up a point... Sunnydale is more on the 'Caucasian persuasion' and there's nothing wrong with that.... is there?

 

[Myheadsgonenumb]

It's based on Santa Barbara - in the 2000s SB was 74% white and only 1.8% African American. I can understand the argument about wanting to show greater diversity than is reality because otherwise minorities will feel very invisible, but I think the modern woke push to not just diversify but to condemn anything that isn't diverse as 'problematic' does ignore the reality of actual statistics and that real demographics aren't 'problematic'... they're just fact.

Plus, diversity means a lot more than including black characters, although 9 times out of 10 that is what someone means when they talk about the lack of diversity on a show like Buffy. The racial make up of Santa Barbara in the 2000s was 35% Hispanic or Latina ... compared to 1.8% African American. If it's a question of showing real, diverse communities - the question shouldn't be where are the black characters? it should be where the hell are the hispanic characters?

There's Ampata, there's a janitor that Cordelia talks to (yells at) in the wishverse and there's Caridad, one of the background potentials. That doesn't really stack up in importance and visibility against: Kendra, Mr. Trick, Principal Wood, Nikki Wood, Rhona and Forrest

 

[Buffy Summers]

There is Kennedy

Honestly I think part of the point of Sunnydale is that it's not diverse. Of course that wouldn't fly today but it was realistic for the time. If they ever end up doing this I don't care what races the characters are as long as they're done well. They shouldn't use diversity as a crutch so they don't have to put any effort into it.

 

[Spanky]

They shouldn't use diversity as a crutch so they don't have to put any effort into it.

No, they should just keep using the fans ability to eat up any crap they give them as the crutch not to put forth an effort.

 

[forbuss]

There is Kennedy

Honestly I think part of the point of Sunnydale is that it's not diverse. Of course that wouldn't fly today but it was realistic for the time. If they ever end up doing this I don't care what races the characters are as long as they're done well. They shouldn't use diversity as a crutch so they don't have to put any effort into it.

This is why I have often compared Buffy the the Scream film series. Part of the reason Buffy worked is because they turned a concept on it's head, making the blonde cheerleader the hero instead of the helpless victim. I think people often forget that the show pointed to itself in this self aware and irreverent way.

I really do get everyone's sentiment on this concept of "diversity" being used as some sort of a selling point or way to gain inclusive status, or perhaps captivate a certain audience. I've never liked the word diversity because I feel that it is quite empty in reality. I much prefer the idea and practice of inclusion because it brings more voices and experiences to the table which impacts the product of the show for the better (in my opinion).