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Arcane Jinx/Silco BtVS Faith/Mayor comparison

Btvs fan

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Any fans of Buffy should really watch this show fantastic story.
Anyone noticed an obvious parallel relationship of Jinx and Silco and Faith and the Mayor ?
 

thrasherpix

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I didn't see it until you pointed it out, but I can see it now. Maybe I'll comment on the similarities and differences later.

In the meantime, for those who've seen it or don't mind spoilers that want to think on this more, I liked a lot of things this person points out about Jinx and Silco:


And yeah, I love this series, though I've only had a passing interest in League of Legends before. And it's not just my liking steampunk and magic, it's a lot more about it that I like that I think I'd love it even if I weren't into steampunk and fantasy.
 

Bop

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I'll have to watch this show but from what I saw from the video @thrasherpix posted I can see similarities.

1. The point of affirmation related a lot to Faith and The Mayor because before Faith joined The Mayor she didn't feel affirmed, she felt like a screw up and evil because of the accident and The Mayor kind of heals Faith because he affirms her for being evil and makes her important.

2. The grief and anger that The Mayor shows when Faith is stabbed is one of the reasons I believe his relationship with Faith had grown past the point of being for his advantage and into love because as is pointed out in the video with Jinx and Silco it is moments like that which can't be for manipulation or to prove anything that shows true intentions. And it's a different situation but while The Mayor didn't give up the Ascension the way he acts when Faith can't be at the Ascension almost makes it seem like his heart wasn't in it anymore and that his day which he planned for 100 years to complete lost its meaning without Faith. We kind of see that loss when The Mayor tells Faith in the hospital that the Ascension is her day (just like he told her the Ascension is "her day too" when she was awake).

The differences seem to be that The Mayor doesn't have parallels to Faith as strongly as Silco and Jinx seem to and I'd say Silco had a stronger attachment to Jinx but that would make sense because he raised Jinx while The Mayor didn't raise Faith and only knew her for a few months.
 
T
thrasherpix
Good point on the difference of how long they knew each other. That's one of the things that was at the edge of consciousness, Silco really was a father for all intents and purposes rather than a mere father figure.

Btvs fan

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I'll have to watch this show but from what I saw from the video @thrasherpix posted I can see similarities.

1. The point of affirmation related a lot to Faith and The Mayor because before Faith joined The Mayor she didn't feel affirmed, she felt like a screw up and evil because of the accident and The Mayor kind of heals Faith because he affirms her for being evil and makes her important.

2. The grief and anger that The Mayor shows when Faith is stabbed is one of the reasons I believe his relationship with Faith had grown past the point of being for his advantage and into love because as is pointed out in the video with Jinx and Silco it is moments like that which can't be for manipulation or to prove anything that shows true intentions. And it's a different situation but while The Mayor didn't give up the Ascension the way he acts when Faith can't be at the Ascension almost makes it seem like his heart wasn't in it anymore and that his day which he planned for 100 years to complete lost its meaning without Faith. We kind of see that loss when The Mayor tells Faith in the hospital that the Ascension is her day (just like he told her the Ascension is "her day too" when she was awake).

The differences seem to be that The Mayor doesn't have parallels to Faith as strongly as Silco and Jinx seem to and I'd say Silco had a stronger attachment to Jinx but that would make sense because he raised Jinx while The Mayor didn't raise Faith and only knew her for a few months.

You really should watch Arcane, it's a gut punch of a show where everyone's motivations feel real. While the heroes all make mistakes but sometimes just aren't heroic while the Villains can be sympathetic and even understandable.
Silco is the straight up villain in this show but not only does he care for Jinx but deep down wants his people to be free. He was also betrayed and almost murdered by one of the supposed hero's of the show.
Contrast that with the Mayor who despite being well acted by Harry Groener was never really given much depth in his motivations, he wanted to be a big snake but then what ? Whedon never really developed him further and instead became a show joke "Mayor meat extra crispy"
On balance I think this was written far better .
 
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Bop

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You really should watch Arcane, it's a gut punch of a show where everyone's motivations feel real. While the heroes all make mistakes but sometimes just aren't heroic while the Villains can be sympathetic and even understandable.
Silco is the straight up villain in this show but not only does he care for Jinx but deep down wants his people to be free. He was also betrayed and almost murdered by one of the supposed hero's of the show.
Contrast that with the Mayor who despite being well acted by Harry Groener was never really given much depth in his motivations, he wanted to be a big snake but then what ? Whedon never really developed him further and instead became a show joke "Mayor meat extra crispy"
On balance I think this was written far better .

I definitely intend to watch it now, I've found it on Netflix :)
Yeah I agree The Mayor's plan didn't really have a lot to it but I thought it worked well with his personality that he wanted to re-order Sunnydale. But I don't love The Mayor for his plan I just love his presence, his personality and his relationship with Faith. I think Buffy knows when to be self aware sometimes so I wouldn't say The Mayor was turned into a joke it was just acknowledging the ridiculousness of someone wanting to be a giant snake 😄
 
B
Btvs fan
Cant wait to hear your thoughts once you've seen it

Fuffy Baith

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So, I haven't finished Arcane yet, after episode 4 I was wondering why people are ravving about this show, episode 5 was better though. I'll see how the rest of the season plays out. My problem is Powder/Jinx is clearly someone who NEEDS mental help, every since she was a kid, and NO ONE cares about her mental health. I can see why people would compare Jinx and Faith, but I don't think Silco cares about Jinx the way the Mayor cares about Faith. Also, I think Jinx is more mentally unstable than Faith is. Jinx has like no sense of right and wrong, whereas Faith just doesn't care. Maybe my opinion will change when I finish the show.
 
Bop
Bop
I'm just curious what will happen now. I've only seen episode 1 and Powder seems pretty normal 😄
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Btvs fan

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So, I haven't finished Arcane yet, after episode 4 I was wondering why people are ravving about this show, episode 5 was better though. I'll see how the rest of the season plays out. My problem is Powder/Jinx is clearly someone who NEEDS mental help, every since she was a kid, and NO ONE cares about her mental health. I can see why people would compare Jinx and Faith, but I don't think Silco cares about Jinx the way the Mayor cares about Faith. Also, I think Jinx is more mentally unstable than Faith is. Jinx has like no sense of right and wrong, whereas Faith just doesn't care. Maybe my opinion will change when I finish the show.

You need to see it to the end. There's only 9 episodes so not many left.

@Bop without spoiling anything Episode 3 is the game changer episode
 
Bop
Bop
Oh okay :D

Btvs fan

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So, I haven't finished Arcane yet, after episode 4 I was wondering why people are ravving about this show, episode 5 was better though. I'll see how the rest of the season plays out. My problem is Powder/Jinx is clearly someone who NEEDS mental help, every since she was a kid, and NO ONE cares about her mental health. I can see why people would compare Jinx and Faith, but I don't think Silco cares about Jinx the way the Mayor cares about Faith. Also, I think Jinx is more mentally unstable than Faith is. Jinx has like no sense of right and wrong, whereas Faith just doesn't care. Maybe my opinion will change when I finish the show.

This interview clearly doesn't bode well in writer self awareness in what they've written beyond "yeah this'll be real cool bro" 😢
 
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Bop

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Wow yeah, episode 3 was a game-changer for sure, that got really disturbing. I've only finished episode 4 but I'm really enjoying Jinx now because she's a cool character that has been set up really well. I agree with @Fuffy Baith that Jinx is definitely far more mentally unstable than Faith, I think maybe Faith in Five by Five is similar but yeah Jinx is probably closer to Dana than Faith on a scale of crazy. I love the vibe of the opening credits 😄
 
B
Btvs fan
Faith had an adult mind whereas Jinx still has a childs mind

Btvs fan

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Wow yeah, episode 3 was a game-changer for sure, that got really disturbing. I've only finished episode 4 but I'm really enjoying Jinx now because she's a cool character that has been set up really well. I agree with @Fuffy Baith that Jinx is definitely far more mentally unstable than Faith, I think maybe Faith in Five by Five is similar but yeah Jinx is probably closer to Dana than Faith on a scale of crazy. I love the vibe of the opening credits 😄

But it all happens from very human reactions of what are basically kids. Its so sad.

I'll be interested when you've seen all 9 episodes
 
Bop
Bop
Yeah I liked how it played out. I'm sure I will have watched everything in the next few days.
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thrasherpix

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But it all happens from very human reactions of what are basically kids. Its so sad.

I'll be interested when you've seen all 9 episodes
Though my personal story was, naturally, very different, I found a lot of things said and did remind me of when I was a runaway on the streets as a child (not just counting myself). We even said some things that are almost word for word what the kids down there say, and how we saw the police as just another gang (and though I see now that was way too simplistic, and there are plenty of good cops trying to make a positive difference, I also still realize that it wasn't an entirely unjustified view on our part). I certainly relate to the kids in the first 3 eps more than the kids fighting vampires or staying at Anne's shelter in Angel.

There are a lot of details of that and much else that they get right, which I wonder if it's because of its genre where they can get away with being more raw and less romanticized and black & white in their thinking (which would make too many uncomfortable if they felt they should apply it to their own life), as Gene Roddenberry found out.

That said, I wouldn't want to compare myself, even back then, to Jinx (though she does kind of remind me of a good friend, but completely understandable to me, and even to this day I consider her socipathic violence karma against many she inflicted herself on, even if they never hurt her directly). Many years ago someone said I reminded him of Jinx, and having only seen the original LOL vid to her, I thought "strange, but cool." Thinking back on that, I'm now a bit disturbed I made him think of her now that I've seen her in this show! (If I could, I'd track him down and ask him why.)
 

Fuffy Baith

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I love the vibe of the opening credits 😄
You know what, as much as I trash on Imagine Dragons, this is a good song, and it's one of the better opening credits from a show since Game of Thrones. And I love when shows do a proper opening credits and not just flash a logo.

@Btvs fan "Faith had an adult mind whereas Jinx still has a childs mind"
That's a good point. Jinx is a child (despite a sexual look), and Faith felt more adult. I only got like two episodes left to watch, so not sure what happens with Vi and Jinx in the end. But I just keep thinking someone needs to give Jinx a hug and tell her that everything will be okay, (Vi kind of did that). But like Jinx literally hears voices and sees ghosts, she's so mentally unstable, and it's so sad that no one around her cares and just wants to sue her as a weapon. It makes her very sympathetic for me. At least Faith had Angel to care about her.
I think maybe Faith in Five by Five is similar but yeah Jinx is probably closer to Dana than Faith on a scale of crazy
I would love to see Jinx and that version of Faith creating havoc together. That would be fun.
 
B
Btvs fan
That version of Faith is basically wanting suicide by cop. She wants Angel to kill her. Jinx in contrast wants love and with her child like mental state cant understand what shes doing wrong.

Bop

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You know what, as much as I trash on Imagine Dragons, this is a good song, and it's one of the better opening credits from a show since Game of Thrones. And I love when shows do a proper opening credits and not just flash a logo.

@Btvs fan "Faith had an adult mind whereas Jinx still has a childs mind"
That's a good point. Jinx is a child (despite a sexual look), and Faith felt more adult. I only got like two episodes left to watch, so not sure what happens with Vi and Jinx in the end. But I just keep thinking someone needs to give Jinx a hug and tell her that everything will be okay, (Vi kind of did that). But like Jinx literally hears voices and sees ghosts, she's so mentally unstable, and it's so sad that no one around her cares and just wants to sue her as a weapon. It makes her very sympathetic for me. At least Faith had Angel to care about her.

I would love to see Jinx and that version of Faith creating havoc together. That would be fun.

Is Jinx's age ever confirmed because I think she looks about 18, and like 11 before the time jump. I guess knowing how long the time jump was could be a good clue but I don't remember them saying it.
 
B
Btvs fan
The time jump is 6 years I think the writers said
Fuffy Baith
Fuffy Baith
I was confused by the time jump also. 6 years makes sense.

Btvs fan

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Though my personal story was, naturally, very different, I found a lot of things said and did remind me of when I was a runaway on the streets as a child (not just counting myself). We even said some things that are almost word for word what the kids down there say, and how we saw the police as just another gang (and though I see now that was way too simplistic, and there are plenty of good cops trying to make a positive difference, I also still realize that it wasn't an entirely unjustified view on our part). I certainly relate to the kids in the first 3 eps more than the kids fighting vampires or staying at Anne's shelter in Angel.

There are a lot of details of that and much else that they get right, which I wonder if it's because of its genre where they can get away with being more raw and less romanticized and black & white in their thinking (which would make too many uncomfortable if they felt they should apply it to their own life), as Gene Roddenberry found out.

That said, I wouldn't want to compare myself, even back then, to Jinx (though she does kind of remind me of a good friend, but completely understandable to me, and even to this day I consider her socipathic violence karma against many she inflicted herself on, even if they never hurt her directly). Many years ago someone said I reminded him of Jinx, and having only seen the original LOL vid to her, I thought "strange, but cool." Thinking back on that, I'm now a bit disturbed I made him think of her now that I've seen her in this show! (If I could, I'd track him down and ask him why.)

The Jinx of the game is (which Iv not played but looked up) remarkably different to this Jinx. In that she's basically just a Harley Quinn rip off.
In this shes a mentally damaged trauma victim whose been abandoned and manipulated by those around her. She probably has bpd and has the mental age of a child. So I wouldn't worry if itsxthe computer game Jinx. Now if it was this Jinx you should worry
 
T
thrasherpix
Thanks. My guess at the time was how surreal and silly I could be at times...and I did joke that I wanted a "dream monkey" at the time (which I saw as giving Jinx that bizarre dream of bathing in brass and fighting robots).

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Good point. Never really thought about the similarities between them, but i can definitely see them.
They both come from a place of emotional trauma that led them to seek comfort of the nearest father figure available and, therefore, their approval, while actually developing a true bond with them after a while.

On the other hand, I still consider the Mayor and Faith's dinamic a little less a father-daugher type of relationship than what we can see with Silco and Jinx, especially considering the fact that the latter spent years developing their relationship to fully form a bond that actually felt like two people who deeply cared for each other rather than just needing something out of the other party

Also, Faith is a beacon of mental stability compared to Jinx, so there's also that factor coming into play. Jinx's vulnerability played a big part in building her relationship with Silco, since she didn't have anyone else left and was truly broken and hopeless. But I don't think he took advantage of that, but genuinely took her in out of whatever was left of kindness in his heart.
 

Btvs fan

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Good point. Never really thought about the similarities between them, but i can definitely see them.
They both come from a place of emotional trauma that led them to seek comfort of the nearest father figure available and, therefore, their approval, while actually developing a true bond with them after a while.

On the other hand, I still consider the Mayor and Faith's dinamic a little less a father-daugher type of relationship than what we can see with Silco and Jinx, especially considering the fact that the latter spent years developing their relationship to fully form a bond that actually felt like two people who deeply cared for each other rather than just needing something out of the other party

Also, Faith is a beacon of mental stability compared to Jinx, so there's also that factor coming into play. Jinx's vulnerability played a big part in building her relationship with Silco, since she didn't have anyone else left and was truly broken and hopeless. But I don't think he took advantage of that, but genuinely took her in out of whatever was left of kindness in his heart.

I'm not sure he was that kind, he basically created a psychopath in his own image. Like he said about betrayal and he did lie to her about Vi. Vi was back for her not the stone
 

Bop

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Just finished it now, it was kind of a bit slow in the middle but wow the ending was good, and I would watch the next season.
I feel like it has to work out for Jinx, I hope Vi will still try and help her. If she can look past Powder inadvertently causing the deaths of her own family there's probably hope that she can look past what Jinx did here. But what horrible timing.
 

Btvs fan

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Just finished it now, it was kind of a bit slow in the middle but wow the ending was good, and I would watch the next season.
I feel like it has to work out for Jinx, I hope Vi will still try and help her. If she can look past Powder inadvertently causing the deaths of her own family there's probably hope that she can look past what Jinx did here. But what horrible timing.

For me the big issue is how they stick the landing in S2. In the game as shown in the Get Jinxed video , Jinx is basically a Harley Quinn knock off. Now in this she's a mentally ill trauma victim with the mental age of a child. To suddenly revert back to the Harley Quinn routine would feel so off as would simply being the villain foil for her sister to beat up. Plus the message is that what you do crazy people feels wrong too.
They went there with this subject matter so they have to handle the subject matter properly

 

Bop

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For me the big issue is how they stick the landing in S2. In the game as shown in the Get Jinxed video , Jinx is basically a Harley Quinn knock off. Now in this she's a mentally ill trauma victim with the mental age of a child. To suddenly revert back to the Harley Quinn routine would feel so off as would simply being the villain foil for her sister to beat up. Plus the message is that what you do crazy people feels wrong too.
They went there with this subject matter so they have to handle the subject matter properly

That's very true it would be a huge mistake to do that because imo Jinx is the most interesting character on the show and doing that would take away her complexity.
 

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Finally finished the show and it was a good ending. My problems with the show are with the Hex Tech plots, because they haven't defined this world well enough for me to know how big of a discovery Hex Tech is. Other than that I ended up liking the show.

Also, Faith is a beacon of mental stability compared to Jinx,
Jinx is so more far gone mentally than Faith is, she literally talks to voices in her head.
But I don't think he took advantage of that, but genuinely took her in out of whatever was left of kindness in his heart.
I think he saw a bit of himself in her. He was left behind by Vander and Powder was left behind by Vi. However, Powder was a little girl when Silco took her in, Faith was already a trained killer when the Mayor got to her. Silco taking a little girl and allowing her to do his dirty work for her, while ignoring her mental instability, is far worse than the Mayor using Faith as a hitman. Silco never treats Jinx like a daughter he just gives her more lee way. Where as the Mayor is encouraging Faith to drink her milk and buying her dresses and playstations.
 
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