Arguments against Bangel that annoy you #2

[Miss Muffet]

- Angel 'raped Buffy's mind' and 'stole away her happiness' in 'IWRY': This...is not what happened. The day was taken back, erased from existence, for everyone in the world except Angel. The Oracles did this, it was their solution and Angel did it not because of shallow reasons (he couldn't cope with being a mere human or whatever) but because he was told that remaining mortal would eventually cost Buffy her life. Angel was very much enjoying the mortal stuff; sunlight, tasting food, kissing Buffy, having tea with Buffy, the marathon boink-athon with Buffy and added ice-cream, etc.
Angel obviously wanted to prolong it for as long as he could so he forgoes the easy option, its part of why he left Sunnydale in the first place. He wanted Buffy's life to be better, and also longer.

I can't believe no one else has talked about this one yet, because it bugs the heck out of me.
Even in Bangel fics, when they call it the "Forgotten Day", or Buffy remembers the day like they were repressed memories, I groan and/or roll my eyes.
And even if they acknowledge the fact the day never happened, they then get mad at Angel for not telling Buffy what happened, a situation which Buffy herself perfectly explains:

Buffy: "How am I supposed to go on with my life knowing what we had? What we could have had?"

If he had told her, she would have just wallowed in "what if"s and wouldn't have been able to move on and live or normal life (which was what Angel wanted for her).

Sidenote: I just wanted to post here and say how much I love re-reading this thread; it makes me happy to be a Bangel shipper

 

[Faded90]

One that always annoys me is one that is usually used as a Pro Cangel Anti Bangel argument is the ‘it’s rushed because it’s about romance straight away’ obviously as opposed to the ‘friends first’ thing. But is two people meeting and being immediately attracted to each other really a con? Like I can see how it’s nice to do friends first sometimes but I don’t think it makes a relationship any less meaningful if there is immediate attraction and a want for ‘more’ between the two of you. I don’t know I just find it an odd argument to put against them

 

[cookieanalogy]

These 2 posts about the argument against bangel that annoy you.... are gold. This is fixing old traumas haha
I'm happy to be a bangel fan and this is a breath of life, thank you guys. Truly. I can't think of another argument... it seems like you covered it all but if I ever come up with something I finally have a place to talk about it!

 

[Miss Muffet]

Just found another thing that annoys me.
It's not really an argument, but it bugs me when people say Bangel had closure (compared to whatever ship they're arguing for). Sure, they broke up, but based on 'Chosen' and 'The Girl in Question', I'd say it's obvious they still loved each other, but couldn't be together. So... Where's the closure? For Spuffy, I can say it was when Spike admitted she didn't love him and for Cangel, I can say it was during 'You're Welcome' when she died. But I can't think of a plausible example for Bangel.

 

[AstridDante]

Just found another thing that annoys me.
It's not really an argument, but it bugs me when people say Bangel had closure (compared to whatever ship they're arguing for). Sure, they broke up, but based on 'Chosen' and 'The Girl in Question', I'd say it's obvious they still loved each other, but couldn't be together. So... Where's the closure? For Spuffy, I can say it was when Spike admitted she didn't love him and for Cangel, I can say it was during 'You're Welcome' when she died. But I can't think of a plausible example for Bangel.

I don’t think Bangel or Spuffy had closure both men are still in love with Buffy by TGIQ. They say they are ‘moving on’ but are they really. Spike said ‘no you don’t but that was more about his insecurities. As soon as he comes back in Angel he is like ‘you don’t know what we had’ and refers to her as ‘my girl’ in TGIQ

 

[Miss Muffet]

Found another one! (though I don't think it's very common)
"Buffy and Angel never had 'normal' (I'm assuming they mean non-Slayer related) conversations."
Even if we ignore the fact that writers aren't going to write a conversation that's useless to the plot, that's just not true. We literally see them attempt to go ice skating, and there are plenty of other times where the conversation wasn't Slayer related (or at least wasn't on purpose, like in 'Ted').

 

[Ann]

Found another one! (though I don't think it's very common)
"Buffy and Angel never had 'normal' (I'm assuming they mean non-Slayer related) conversations."
Even if we ignore the fact that writers aren't going to write a conversation that's useless to the plot, that's just not true. We literally see them attempt to go ice skating, and there are plenty of other times where the conversation wasn't Slayer related (or at least wasn't on purpose, like in 'Ted').

They might not have showed it but I bet Buffy and Angel had normal conversations and did normal things that any other couple would do. They tried to be like other couples as much as they could be. We find out that In the beginning scene of Enemies that Buffy and Angel attended a movie together. There are certainly glimpses of normalcy. So the argument about not having normal conversations in Bangel is not valid.

 

[Faded90]

Honestly I think we actually see Buffy/Angel doing more ‘normal’ stuff than any of Buffy’s relationships. Even more than Buffy/Riley

 

[cookieanalogy]

Did you already talk about the absurd 'A r*ped B' argument? Just this morning again, I saw some 'fans' argue over that on reddit under a post about SMG thinking Angel is B's ultimate love. I guess legally... the law in CA USA would agree but are they missing the point on purpose or projecting?
Is it some kind of a lame attempt to show that if someone else did what you did then it's not as bad? Idgi... it feels sick and twisted to even just think about associating that word with Bangel.

If that was already a topic, I'm sorry - I admit I didn't go through the 2 posts again but please point me where it was talked about and sorry for a potential trigger.

 

[ILLYRIAN]

Warning-Slips into somewhat OFF TOPIC towards the end.

Now that is funny, funny silly not funny ha-ha. I can't imagine the law in CA would actually believe in vampires!

Personally I'm not bothered if a person is a Bangel or a Spuffy. As long as no one disrespects the show, as for me
I'm a D'Hoffryn and Joyce follower, they could have had a massive relationship if it wasn't for one point - the
scriptwriters didn't have the foresight to see the wonder of what might have been. Would D'Hoffryn have allowed
Joyce to have stayed dead from the tumor, I think not! Proof that D'Hoffryn could have loved Joyce like no other.

 

[thetopher]

"Buffy and Angel never had 'normal' (I'm assuming they mean non-Slayer related) conversations."

Even if this were true (and it isn't) at least they actually had, y'know, conversations. Which is more than we got with other Buffy ships that I will not name, ones that were more based on punching, empty sexcapades and nothing but endless awkward staring/'tension' punctuated by unwanted declarations of love/things I did for you lately.


Anyway, Buffy was always curious about Angel and wanted to know more about him all through their relationship, they went on dates, he bought her romantic gifts and were actually seen to talk about 'things'; Buffy's worries about her future, Buffy's relationship with her Mom, hell Angel's entire presence in 'Forever' has not one thing to do with slaying, its very personal to Buffy. And there was their off-screen talk in S6, what was that about; say, Angel, what things did you slay whilst I was dead?' Yeah, I doubt it.

Basically she confided in him about lots, not just slayer stuff; obviously given the dramatic focus of the show the writers will showcase plot-slayer related talking more often but still, we were given enough to know that the above assertion is just silly.