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AtS Season 4 Rewatch

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WillowFromBuffy

Guest
For the second time, I will be subjecting myself to the can of crazy that is S4. Come join me down the rabbit hole if you dare.

Deep Down

S3 is dark. S4 is even darker. I miss the colours of S2. By the way, are S3 and S4 really two seperate parts of the Angel-story? They weave so seamlessly into each other and so much of S3 is simply set up for S4.

I wonder, is there ever a normal state in Angel Investigations? It feels as though they are always thorn apart by some crisis. Now there is just Gunn and Fred together with a seriously scary Connor.

Angel's dreams are very well done, especially the one that seems inspired by Buffy's flashback in "The Body." I wonder if CC intentionally delivers her confession of love for Angel so awkwardly. She sometimes struggles with certain emotional lines. However, the odd way Angel says he is sorry adds a sense of mischief to the scene. The way the light illuminates only the lower row of Angel's teeth as he screams inside his box gives him a hilarious under-bite.

Fred has bored me since "Fredless," but Amy Acker does a great job of portraying Fred at the end of her ropes. It is sad to see Gunn and Fred implode, though.

Lilah must have tasted salt as she licked Wesley's glistening body and she is right off to work. Does nobody shower after sex in the Buffyverse? I really like these two, though. My feelings on Wesley are mixed, but it is exciting to see him go off the deep end. However, I fear that the writers are a little too much in love with their own creation. Fred's line: "You really don't care anymore, do you?" is especially awkward. S4 could almost be dubbed Wesley the Show.

Rewatching the earlier seasons, it struck me that Lilah has really been the underdog of Wolfram and Hart so far. Despite her swagger, she is mostly bullied around by her male colleges. She lacks Lindsay's edge. Her only real victory so far was blackmailing Angel into breaking out Billy, and that ended up badly for her. But now she is chopping heads and giving orders. Stephanie is so great at playing smug, so it is a joy to see her triumph now and again.

Fred taking her anger out on Connor with a tazer seems extreme.

Angel is pretty scary as he confronts Connor. His speech is amazing. I once made a joke about how it reflects on the show itself, that the characters of this seasons is better than the plot.

This episode is a great start, but I am scared to move forward.
 
Mylie
Mylie
Wish I could rewatch with you but I have to rewatch s3 first. I’ll be reading your thoughts for sure though!

NeonSlayer

Potential
Joined
Jul 26, 2018
Messages
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Most fans love that Fred tasered Connor for pretending to be trustworthy then trying to kill a souled vampire for the crimes he committed centuries ago when he didn't have a soul. Yet they take Wood's side in BtVS s7. At least Connor was a teenager and before that year only experience Quor'toth. Wood was 30 and grew up in Beverly Hills.

I think when Angel was rescued he should have locked Connor in the basement cage and then taken the time to get through to him. Instead he makes his only child homeless knowing he has no way to take care of himself without an understanding of Earth, no ID, never been to school, etc. What happened to the Angel that let Faith chill on his bed watching tv and eating popcorn & donuts? She hurt the group more than Connor did.
 
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WillowFromBuffy

Guest
I don't think any of the situations you bring up are comparable. Throwing Faith out on the street would have been the stupidest and most irresponsible thing Angel could possibly have done. If I remember correctly, they build the cage in the basement in preparation for letting loose Angelus. Even if they had a cage to hold Connor in, I don't think locking him up would have been a good idea. Sending Connor away is not a punishment. Angel is hoping he will come back on his own. He keeps tabs on him after he leaves.


As for Fred and Wood. Fred is betrayed by someone she loves. Robin meets the boogeyman who killed his mother and is expected to forgive and forget.

You can't reduce everything to numbers and say that character X did this much bad, so character Y gets this much brownie points for being forgiving.
 

NeonSlayer

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How is sending Connor away not a punishment? He'd only been on Earth for a couple of months. He had no way of taking care of himself. He was just as lost as Faith was and a year or two younger than her.

Keeping tabs on him? Connor was homeless, a teenager sleeping in an abandoned building. Fred was in her twenties and spent 5 months holed up in her room traumatized after she returned from Pylea. Connor was in a worse demon dimension and spent his entire life from infancy there. By the beginning of s4 he'd only been back a couple of months.

No one told Wood he had to forgive or forget. But continuing to flirt with Buffy and working beside her at school and going on patrol with her and giving her Slayer heirlooms while secretly building a murder room and trying to convince her mentor that she's incompetent and then using him to distract her so he could beat Spike to death isn't too much to ask him not to do.

Connor was used by Holtz & Justine. Wood knew what he was doing.
 
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WillowFromBuffy

Guest
How is sending Connor away not a punishment? He'd only been on Earth for a couple of months. He had no way of taking care of himself. He was just as lost as Faith was and a year or two younger than her.
Because it is not punishment as retribution. Angel is not trying to even a score with Connor. He is merely doing what he believes is best and safest for everyone.

Fred was a "cow" covering in a cave in Pylea. In Quor'toth, Connor was known as the Destroyer. He is hardly helpless.
 

NeonSlayer

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Because it is not punishment as retribution. Angel is not trying to even a score with Connor. He is merely doing what he believes is best and safest for everyone.

Fred was a "cow" covering in a cave in Pylea. In Quor'toth, Connor was known as the Destroyer. He is hardly helpless.

Angel wasn't trying to punish him but it did contribute to Connor being in the perfect position to be groomed by Jasdelia and the hopelessness & isolation that led to Angel thinking he was so far gone the only option was killing him to wipe his memories and insert him into a faux family.

Connor wasn't helpless against demons trying to kill him but he was helpless in many other ways. It was like someone from another century being popped into modern life. He was not at all prepared. He didn't understand Earth or have any ties to it. He didn't even know what drugs were. He didn't have a social security card, birth certificate, driver's license, high school diploma, passport, etc. He didn't know how to use a computer or what was illegal. He didn't have a cellphone or email address or residence to put on a job application. He had no proof he was an American citizen.

Connor was trained basically to be a Slayer. It's all he knew.
 
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WillowFromBuffy

Guest
gwenwalking_zpse3c9903f.gif~c200

My name is WHAT!? My name is WHO!? My name is tikki-tikki-tick! GWEN RAIDEN!
Ground State

I must admit that I adore the opening with little Gwen at her boarding school. I also do not really hate Gwen Raiden ... it's just ... she's so loud. When was the last time a character was introduced with this much fanfare? Spike and Dru? At least they went on to become big players in the verse and their arrival came at a time when the show needed something fresh. We don't need this strange latex goddess at this point. There is too much going on. I admit, it is easier the second time around. The first time I was worried about Cordelia and the rest of the Fang Gang. Now that I know how it all plays out, I can calm down and try to enjoy the spectacle of Gwen ... but there is very little here. She's a freak! Cool! Never heard that line before on this show.

So, what is Gwen's deal. I guess she is a play on the dangerous female sexuality trope, sorta like a Succubus or something (something such as Darla, Faith, Bethany or Jhieria). Her sex is so electric that it kills, except for Angel who just gets pumped up and horny (as if Cangel wasn't confusing enough). They've been doing the Angel as the one-guy-who-does-not-take-advantage-sexually thing a lot (Faith, Bethany, Jhiera). There's something self-congratulatory about this trope, and if you're repeat to do a trope for the nth time, then please do it well.

I don't like Gwen. I don't get Gwen. But I guess this is the throw-every-thing-at-the-wall-and-see-if-something-sticks season of Angel. Lets hope the wall does not break down.

I really love to have emotionally unhinged Fred back. Amy is an amazing actor, and she sells this version of Fred really well. Paradoxically, stress makes Fred appear more intimidating and assertive. I know people give Joss some flack for fetishizing trauma in Fred, but I like it. It is much more compelling than having her be the unwitting prize of Wes and Gunn's cockfight. And the drawing competition between her and Angel is cute.

I know I'm being very negative. If someone wants to join in with a more sympathetic reading, I would be happy to hear it :)

Ranking:
Deep Down
Ground State
 
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WillowFromBuffy

Guest
I give up. I've watched 'til "Apocalypse Nowish," and I hate every second of it. I have nothing nice to say. I don't have anything at all to say. It is just as bad as I remember. What is this? I am just as confused as Angel himself.
 
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