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BtVS Season 5 Rewatch

W

WillowFromBuffy

Guest
The Body

This is a masterpiece. There is no other way to say it. It is the one episode that you can show to any non-Whedonite normie and they will have no problem appreciating its brilliance. You don't have to be an insider for this one.

The flashback is probably not a flashback, because Joyce is not wearing her scarf. It is more like Angel's dream in "Deep Down." It is an ideal place–Buffy's idea of home. Seeing it this way, it is interesting to note Riley's absence. It suggests that he no longer occupies that place in Buffy's mind, if he ever did.

I find the scene to be really effective. It is totally jarring to be brought here after the opening credits. It lets the viewer see what Buffy has lost, while at the same time, it lets us see what images are running through Buffy's mind as she stalls before approaching her mother. The plate shattering is an effective way to end the dream ... dream shattering ... life shattering. The effect is similar to the abrupt end of Anya's song in "Selfless." We are thorn back to reality.

I also like Buffy's vision of Joyce surviving. Sometimes I find myself wishing something so hard that it starts to feel like truth, almost as though there are two worlds ... one where things are good and one where things are bad ... and I have to press myself into the good one.

The scene at Dawn's school is really great. I like the idea of negative space. Joyce's form still shape the world around her, but she is no longer drawn in. She is just the empty hole in the middle. The whole scene also feels really authentic. It shows how true loss tend to strike us while we are in the middle of some mundane "emergency." I love how we are taken behind the window for the moment of Dawn's realisation of what has happened. It makes it more effective somehow. When the camera is all up the actors' faces, we are immersed in them, but when we are pulled back, our focus turn back on ourselves and our own reaction ... and memories of loss we ourselves have endured.

Xander reminds me of Angel in "Triangle." He wants a mystery to solve and an enemy to beat, but there is none. This is the most purely mimetic episode of the entire Buffyverse. There is no didacticism. There is no resolution ... except for Dawn's acceptance at the end that Joyce is truly dead, but there is no catharsis in that. Willow offers herself up as Xander's antagonist ... so sweet.

The scene with Willow and Tara reminds me of when I went to the funeral of one of my best friends' mother. My only suit is navy blue, but I figured it was just about dark enough. I had not been in a church in years, and I did not really know what the ceremony would be like or if I should join the dinner afterwards. I hardly knew anyone there. Luckily, the mother of another old friend of mine saw me and picked her up in her car, and she told me when to sit and stand through the ceremony. At the graveyard, I met another old friend who had flown in with his fiance, and I joined them for the dinner. There is so much ritual and responsibility. When I die, I will ban the people I leave behind from having a ceremony in my memory. But I guess Willow is right when she says that being there for others and going to the motions and wearing the right sweater is just part of being an adult. I still maintain that the sharing of grief is best handled in more intimate and less formal settings. When my grandmother died this summer, all my aunts and cousin flew in and stayed for days, so we had loads of time to hang out and drink wine.

I adore Anya's speech. It reminds us of the inconceivableness of death. Death is something we just push to the back of our minds. It is not something we can truly address, because accepting it goes against all our instincts. As we get older, we learn to repress it somehow. Anya has lived too long without the reality of death, so she reacts to it like a child who for the first time grasps its true horror. I think Emma does an amazing job. Anya must be a difficult character to play, because she is so absurd. She is a comedic character that also has to have this poignant moments of raw emotion. Sarah is an amazing actor, but her mannerisms as Buffy are almost exactly like her own, which makes me assume that Buffy grieves much like Sarah would grieve. Emma has to express grief like Anya would have expressed grief, which is much more difficult. Somehow, she manages to be both appropriately theatrical and raw, which should be a contradiction. Her deadpan, yet subtly pained delivery of, "I wish Joyce weren't dead," is just perfect.

As always, I love Willow and Anya arguing. Willow looks like she is ready to scratch Anya's eyes out. It seems like it is only Tara's presence that keeps Willow calm, so when she leaves, anything could have happened...

And I need to just mention Xander getting a parking ticket. Best punchline to a scene ever.
you will all probably throw rocks at me for this.
xander.jpg
Ranking of the episodes so far:
The Body
Fool For Love
Blood Ties
Listening to Fear
Family
Real Me
Crush
Checkpoint
I Was Made to Love You
Triangle
No Place Like Home
Into the Woods
Shadow
The Replacement
Buffy vs. Dracula
Out Of My Mind
 
Mylie
Mylie
Angel in Triangle?

Mrs Gordo

Bangel extremist...
Joined
Jul 11, 2017
Messages
4,004
Location
Texas
Black Thorn
@Grace and I are going to be group watching Forever tomorrow at 1pm CST (2pm CST) on Rabb.it. I will come and post the link here in case you want to join us.
 

Grace

Destructo-Girl
Joined
Mar 23, 2017
Messages
1,787
Black Thorn
@Grace and I are going to be group watching Forever tomorrow at 1pm CST (2pm CST) on Rabb.it. I will come and post the link here in case you want to join us.
I consider Forever to be Marti Noxon’s personal apology to me for the end of Into the Woods. :p

Can’t wait to watch!
 
W

WillowFromBuffy

Guest
@Mylie

TRIANGLE

Man, I am constantly making mistakes like this. I even referred to "The Yoko Factor" as "The Yoko Factory" (an assembly line of Yoko Onos) during the group watch.

In stories, there is usually some problem for the protagonist to fix, but in real life, we are often powerless. In "The Trial," Angel is looking for some dangerous quest that can help him save Darla. And when it does not pan out, he starts punch the wall. I guess one advantage of being a vampire is that you can rage a little without risking an injury.
 
Mylie
Mylie
Oh I see. That makes a lot more sense now! Thank you!!

Grace

Destructo-Girl
Joined
Mar 23, 2017
Messages
1,787
Black Thorn
Forever

I keep hoping I'll come up with something interesting to say about this episode, because I really love it. But that's really all I have to say. I really love it. Dawn is intensely relatable, the sisterly breakdown at the end is heartbreakingly real, and Buffy and Angel have two of my favorite scenes of the entire series.

We talked a little bit on the group watch about Willow's motivations. My personal take is while Willow obviously wants a way to take away Dawn's pain (and all of their pain), she justifies it to herself by thinking Dawn would never be able to pull off a complex spell like that with a history book. And without Spike's help, would she have?

One thing I noticed on my first watch is that Joyce, Dawn and Buffy all have a "Good...good." line this season. Joyce says it in Listening to Fear when Buffy promises to protect Dawn if she dies. Buffy says it in this episode when Angel says he can stay a few more minutes, and Dawn says it later when Doc tells her that resurrected Joyce will still be her mom, "more or less."

I don't think that particular line means anything, but I like all the subtle emphasis of the similarities between the characters. We see Buffy trying to be like Joyce and Dawn like Buffy.

We also talked a bit on the group watch about how Buffy puts emphasis on Joyce's good qualities, which is something that's common after a death. Buffy perceives her mom as always knowing the right thing to do or say, even though we have evidence to the contrary. I like Joyce, personally, but I feel like Buffy was generally the one who handled things better. Buffy was certainly feeling overwhelmed about handling grown-up stuff in Forever, though again, she lived on her own as a 17-year-old in LA for three months when overwhelmed with grief. Clearly her responsibility for Dawn — the responsibility of being a mother — is what makes the difference. ("And it'd be OK if it was just me I had to worry about. But Dawn...") Parenthood is scary as hell at first, even when it's a choice and you're way more grown-up, so I get it.

I guess I had more to say than I thought!
 
W

WillowFromBuffy

Guest
Forever

Another truly great episode. Just like "The Body," "Forever" incorporates the perspective of several characters. It is easily my second favourite Marti episode.

At @kateykakes recommendation, I read the story of The Monkey's Paw. It seems likely that Noxon lifted the climactic of "Forever"–when Dawn undoes the spell as Joyce is knocking on the door–from this story. I was hoping to find more parallels, but I couldn't make out any. No mentions of dominoes or anything like that ... oh well ... It was an enjoyable read, nonetheless.

Spike is back, after having taking what I believe is his first day off since he became a regular. In the group watch, I called this Spike's most endearing episode. However, as a vampire, Spike is per definition evil, meaning that he cannot do anything just because it is the right thing to do. There has to be some ulterior motive. When Spike brings his flowers, Xander is therefore unwilling to see it as anything other than another attempt to win over Buffy with yet another act of faux kindness. However, Spike insists that he merely "liked the lady." Now, I don't think we can forget that Spike's ultimate goal is to win Buffy's affection. And even if he did not write a card, Buffy would probably be able to guess who the bouquet of wildflowers came from. But I still think Spike is honest ... or as honest as he can be. In S7, we meet Spike's mother and learn that Spike made her a vampire to save her from dying of illness. And we may not have seen Spike's mother yet at this point, but in "Fool for Love," the thought of his mother makes William temporarily refuse Drusilla's advances. In "Passion," Drusilla teasingly refers to herself as Spike's "mummy." My point being, Spike saw his mother in Joyce and in Dawn's grief he recognises his own trauma. Spike knows from experience that this spell is likely to end in tragedy, but the knowledge could not possibly deter him from healing some of his old trauma vicariously through Dawn.

I love Willow's part in this episode, even if it is hard to know exactly what her line of thinking is. Willow is like an amoral good person. She is basically a hedonist. She seeks to relieve pain and promote happiness, but she fails to consider risk and does not appreciate complex moral arguments. Dawn is sad, because Joyce is dead, so if Joyce was not dead, then Dawn would not be sad anymore, so Willow believes the right thing to do must be to help Dawn make Joyce alive again. The risk and moral implications of a resurrection is just a frustrating obstacle. But Willow does not help Dawn herself. Instead, she points Dawn to a book that contains references to magic that can resurrect the dead. It is probably only Tara's hard stance that keeps Willow from helping Dawn directly, but evidence here and in S6 suggest Willow would have been no more successful than Dawn is.

Is Willow lying when she says that she thought Dawn would give up once she read the book? Maaaaaybe... I am not sure. It makes sense that Willow thought that Dawn could not be persuaded to give up her plan just because Willow and Tara told her to, because Willow couldn't easily be talked down from something similar. It is also possible that Willow feels Dawn deserves a chance to decide for herself. Either way, I don't think she spent a lot of time thinking it through.

It is not easy being Buffy. As the hero, she needs to constantly perform this impossible balancing act. On the one hand, she needs to adhere to the show's strict moral ideal. On the other hand, she needs to be in touch with her emotions and open with her friends and family. In this episode, Buffy focuses to much on her responsibilities, and so she is out of balance. The show punishes Buffy when she fails pray to her emotions, but here, Buffy shuts down her emotions in order to cope, which shows that she is not truly in control (I'm phrasing this very awkwardly, because it is late, and I am tired). Balance! It's important.

I love the confrontation with Buffy and Dawn. It is heartbreaking. It is so sad when Buffy slips ... when she allows herself to hope that Joyce is truly alive. It gives Dawn the opportunity to be the responsible one and do the right thing.

Dawn and Spike's relationships continues to be interesting. It is like Spike is grooming Dawn with lines like, "Did you get it? Don't be sorry then!" (Which is an amazing line). However, I don't think much really comes of it. Dawn does not take any of Spike's lessons to heart, which is good, I guess.

I love how excited Spike looks before he is about to charge the dragon. He has this childlike quality to him. Spike screaming as the dragon's massive jaws bear down upon him is also a joy to watch.

Fresh from learning about death, Anya has now realised the significance of children in the human condition. I love the directness with which she speaks. She's like an adult child. It makes you think about things all over again.

I love the Angel cameo. It is much nicer than that one time he snuck around in the shadows for an entire episode, just so he could snap the neck of an Indian.

Ranking of the episodes so far:
The Body
Fool For Love
Forever
Blood Ties
Listening to Fear
Family
Real Me
Crush
Checkpoint
I Was Made to Love You
Triangle
No Place Like Home
Into the Woods
Shadow
The Replacement
Buffy vs. Dracula
Out Of My Mind
 
kateykakes
kateykakes
I'm glad you read "The Monkey's Paw". It's very short, so there aren't as many parallels like you said, other than the actual premise itself and changing their mind at the end.

Mylie

Scooby
Joined
Dec 1, 2016
Messages
2,002
Age
31
Forever

I know that The Body is the superior episode but this episode was made for me and I love the work it does on the characters. It's about grieving and bringing back the dead, something that’s lost. So I find it interesting that Angel does a crossover in it considering the theme of the episode.

That phone call Giles answers… it’s Angel, right?! Probably not, but I've always felt that it was and so it's my headcanon.

The shot where we see Buffy and Dawn on their bed is beautiful.

I’m surprised Buffy isn’t wearing black. Both Dawn and Willow are and Buffy is wearing very light tones. She’s wearing black later in the episode though.

"I’m sorry, I couldn’t come sooner." I LOVE THIS SCENE SO MUCH!!!!

The cuts between the scenes in this episode are weird (especially the Willow/Tara/Dawn and Xander/Anya scenes).

"I can stay in town as long as you want me / how’s forever? Does forever work for you?" is perhaps my favorite B/A exchange.

I absolutely love Spike calling Dawn « bitty buffy ».

Willow starting a diary is really cute and her explaining that she wants to remember every little thing she does with Tara because life goes by so fast… it made me think of Seeing Red. :(

Buffy saying “these spells go wrong all the time. People come back wrong” Wow… this feels relevant for Buffy’s arc in s6.

This episode feels like foreshadowing for s6, especially with what Buffy, Willow and Dawn are going through.

SMG and Michelle are so good in the final scene, it's SMG at her finest. I'm a mess every single time.

Ranking
The Body
Forever
No Place Like Home
Blood Ties
Checkpoint
Fool For Love
Family
Real Me
Buffy vs. Dracula
Shadow
Listening to Fear
The Replacement
I Was Made To Love You
Crush
Triangle
Out Of My Mind
Into the Woods
 

Grace

Destructo-Girl
Joined
Mar 23, 2017
Messages
1,787
Black Thorn
Intervention

This episode is pretty masterful in its juggling of all the moving parts. All of the storylines come together so well. It's funny and clever and moving.

But the underlying tropes are just not my cuppa, though I know they appeal to others. (This episode seems to heavily foreshadow the overarching plot of the Spuffy relationship, in the way that the episode Angel did for the Bangel relationship. Spike crosses a huge line, then makes a dramatic gesture that makes Buffy feel indebted to him because he does it *for her*, and she rewards him with romantic affection.)

On rewatch, the opening scene between Buffy and Giles is more painful to me. It's so hard to see Giles not challenging Buffy more strongly, especially about Riley. Ugh. ("I was never there for Riley." I would like to sit Buffy down and make her rewatch Season 4 again. She was there for Riley just as much as, if not more, than he was for her. I'm still mad at you, Xander! "Not like I was for Angel." Not loving Riley as much as Angel is not a crime or even an unusual thing. No two relationships are the same. Why can't you say this, Giles?) But I also really appreciate how clear it is here that Buffy is actually overwhelmed with the strength of her love, despite her claims of feeling like stone. It then makes perfect sense for the Guide to tell her later that she's full of love.

Is Buffy's real problem that she feels like she can't love, or she feels that she is not loved? Or that she can't love herself? It reminds me of the inferiority/superiority thing. Like, they're just being nice, they don't really love me, how could they? They don't know who I really am. Only I know who I am and I can see how broken I am. So their opinions/love don't matter.

And that's reinforced by no one ever figuring out what's wrong when Buffy's in the wrong body or replaced by a robot. So you can understand why she feels like maybe she's an empty shell as the slayer.

Anyway, good, funny episode that I don't really enjoy that much. It also makes me hate myself because I love the Buffybot. Pleasant, simple, funny women who are always down for sex? Totally better than the real thing!

:( :( :(
 
W
WillowFromBuffy
"Anyway, good, funny episode that I don't really enjoy that much." :p

Mylie

Scooby
Joined
Dec 1, 2016
Messages
2,002
Age
31
Intervention

I love that Buffy and Dawn are referring to an event that “happened” when Dawn was 5. It’s like they feel comforted into the memories they have even if they know that they are fake.

Buffy worrying that being a slayer is turning her into stone… I understand her worry but I just want to shake her and tell her that she’s the most loving and human character. I hate that she’s still blaming herself for Riley leaving. I find Buffy having this sort of crisis very relatable. Losing someone dear to you makes you rethink how you’re living your life and the way you treat others/your relationship with them. It’s just real hard to watch. I really love Buffy’s storyline in this episode. Her wanting to tell people that she loves them.

“Weird love is better than no love.” That Buffy/Dawn exchange is the most endearing thing.

It’s interesting that the episode that focuses on Buffy’s fear of turning into stone and losing her humanity is the same episode that introduces the Buffybot.

The transition from night to day is really weird in this episode.

I hate that the scoobies were not able to tell Buffy was a robot when they had to deal with one only a couple of episodes ago.

I still hate the ending. A lot in the episode is enjoyable but the ending makes me real uncomfortable. I hate Buffy being objectified and then rewarding Spike. I hate those 2 things but put together in the same episode makes it worse for me. Still, the episode has focus and is entertaining.

Ranking
The Body
Forever
No Place Like Home
Blood Ties
Checkpoint
Fool For Love
Family
Real Me
Buffy vs. Dracula
Intervention
Shadow
Listening to Fear
The Replacement
I Was Made To Love You
Crush
Triangle
Out Of My Mind
Into the Woods
 
W

WillowFromBuffy

Guest
Intervention aka. Something Blue with Sex

I adore the Buffybot, though mostly because of her part in "Bargaining," which is one of my all time favourite episodes. SMG seems to be enjoying herself. She may possibly be even better than the girl who played April. They have very different styles. April was just slightly uncanny. The Buffybot is much more affected. It wouldn't pass the Turing test. Correction: It shouldn't have been able to pass the Turing test, as pointed out above :p

This is the second sex robot episode this season. How is it different? More sex and more jokes. Funny jokes, at least.

I think the Buffybot serves as meta-commentary on SMG's public image. It is a bit of a wonder to me just how famous Sarah actually is. Somehow, Sarah's fame was able to eclipse the fame of Buffy the show, and it cannot be because she was in Scooby Doo and the American Grudge. I don't remember the media landscape of the late 90s–I was a kid and our only TV had three channels–but I remember that Sarah was a sex symbol, even before I was aware Buffy the show even existed. She gets name checked as such by Weird Al Yancovich, who served as my English teacher at the time (or whatever time Napster became a thing). My point is: for a select cult of Buffy-fans, Sarah was a great dramatic and comedic actor. To the rest of the world, Sarah was one of the interchangeable young blonde sex princesses at the time. Like many of her peers, she was associated with high school and the school girl aesthetic. ... or maybe they were poking fun at thirsty Spuffy-shippers.

Riley's ghost still haunts us. Buffy still believes that she was not there for Riley and that she was not able to be as open with him as she was with Angel. In contrast, the Buffybot is a torrent of affection. Buffy says she is turning to stone, but the robot, which is made from metals and minerals, is the most loving thing imaginable. It does not hold back. So you have stones, which feel nothing, we must assume. And we have robots, who simulates a simple and unconditional love. And then we have weird human love, which is messy and complicated (but better than no love).

A great little moment comments when the Buffybot shatter the fantasy by using the word "programme" (it must be what it feels like when the prostitute reminds you that the time you paid for is almost up). Spike tells her to "just be Buffy" and the bot gives him one of her terrifying smiles.

P.S. I used several images from this episode for a class presentation of Do Androids Dream? last fall.

Ranking of the episodes so far:
The Body
Fool For Love
Forever
Blood Ties
Listening to Fear
Family
Real Me
Crush
Checkpoint
I Was Made to Love You
Triangle
No Place Like Home
Intervention
Shadow
Into the Woods
The Replacement
Buffy vs. Dracula
Out Of My Mind
 

Grace

Destructo-Girl
Joined
Mar 23, 2017
Messages
1,787
Black Thorn
Tough Love

This is kind of a hit-or-miss episode for me. Some of it is really beautiful and affecting, and some of it seems a little half-baked (more from an acting/staging standpoint than anything). I personally think the decision not to give Tara any lines in her scene with Glory was a mistake. I also think that Willow's confrontation with Glory seemed better in theory than in reality. Anya's patriotism bit was blah, though I guess maybe it was worth it for the communism callback joke.

What I liked was Buffy's and Willow's struggle with their feelings of failing the people they love and how it makes them go overboard, in small and very big ways.

Willow and Tara fighting over who's the junior partner is really compelling. Both of their insecurities/fears seem realistic to me. They both liked the way it used to be. The changes both outside them and between them (Joyce's death, Willow's growing power) have rocked the boat.

I still don't understand why Buffy on the one hand tells Willow that Buffy herself is no match for Glory and yet constantly says Dawn is safe with Spike. I don't get it! I guess because he was taking her to the caves? I need to just let this go, don't I?

Dawn is absolutely heartbreaking in this episode. "Everyone around me suffers and dies." I cannot even imagine being in her position.
 

Mylie

Scooby
Joined
Dec 1, 2016
Messages
2,002
Age
31
Tough Love

I enjoy this episode a lot but I don't have much to say about it.

I love the parallels between Buffy and Ben at the beginning.

This Willow/Tara conversation is really charged and it escalated so fast.

Tara is so brave and watching her get tortured by Glory is such a hard thing to watch. Amber Benson is amazing in that scene.

Willow saying “She’s my everything” is such a sweet and sad moment.

I love that Buffy and Willow end the episode being able to relate to each other in what they are going through.

Overall, this feels like a rollercoaster so it's entertaining to watch.

Ranking
The Body
Forever
No Place Like Home
Blood Ties
Checkpoint
Fool For Love
Family
Real Me
Tough Love
Buffy vs. Dracula
Intervention
Shadow
Listening to Fear
The Replacement
I Was Made To Love You
Crush
Triangle
Out Of My Mind
Into the Woods
 

Mylie

Scooby
Joined
Dec 1, 2016
Messages
2,002
Age
31
What I liked was Buffy's and Willow's struggle with their feelings of failing the people they love and how it makes them go overboard, in small and very big ways.
Very well said. That's my favorite part of the episode.
 
W

WillowFromBuffy

Guest
Tough Love

I think this is yet another great episode. I find the acting to be on point throughout ... with a possible expectation of Dawn's lightning-rod speech. I don't blame Michelle for the awkward delivery. The line is just so ... extra ... that it ends up sounding a little too stilted and melodramatic.

The capitalist spiel from Anya fits her perfectly. She likes simple systems. Capitalism is an easy concept to understand. The exchange of goods and services to the benefit of all. Ethical egoism and all that jazz. It's also Anya's latest step in her quest to understand mortal life. She started with sex and relationships and moved on to work, death, procreation and now society. She likes simplicity, like when she believed that she would loose her feelings for Xander if she had sex with him.

I'm not a big fan of tough love, and I am not a fan of it her, but I cannot fault Buffy for handling things in a manner that I find unfortunate. It would have been a great idea to let Willow and Tara help Dawn with her homework. It would give Buffy one less thing to worry about, and we know they would be good at it. Willow is a veteran tutor and a teacher. Many people believe that if you're having fun, you're not working hard enough. Homework is supposed to be serious. I'm not a fan of that.

But Buffy is understandably stressed. She is feeling as if everything is falling apart, and she is going to do all she can to ensure that it doesn't. The scene where she tells Dawn that she may loose her guardianship is heartbreaking.

Willow and Tara vent their insecurities about each other. It makes sense. They were both in a bad state when they found each other. Now they have grown co-dependent and they're terrified of the idea of losing each other. I notice Willow's stuffed dog is on the bed behind her ... the one she clung to during her coming out talk with Buffy. I don't think we have seen it since "New Moon Rising." At the start of the episode, Willow tells Tara that she prefers dogs (men) to cats (lesbians). We learn in "New Moon Rising" (and "Who Are You?") that Willow told Tara about Oz, but that she did it in a way that made Tara believe that Willow would dump her if Oz ever came back. My point is: Even if Willow ultimately chose Tara, I get why Tara could still be worried that she is just the rebound to help Willow as she gets back on her feet.

The scene where Glory talks to Tara is great. I don't see any need for any lines from Tara here. Amber often does her best acting with her face anyway. Glory little speech reminds me of what Angel tells Faith when he chains her up in his mansion. Glory is that god he speaks about. She is able to hurt anyone she likes with impunity and regret.

As a Willow fan, the scene where Willow attack Glory is a real treat. Willow makes a good point to Buffy in the hospital, even if she does not exactly spell it out. Everyone has a point at which they put reason aside. Willow has Tara. Buffy has Dawn. In "Graduation Day," Buffy was going kill Faith and feed her corpse to Angel, adding yet another horrific act to his burden of memories. Buffy has super powers, so it is easier for her to take extreme action in instances like this. Up until now, she has been the "hand" of the Scoobies, and Willow and Xander have had to depend upon her. Now Willow believes she can do better herself.

Of course, Willow's power is not as safe or as dependable as Buffy's. In "Blood Ties," she got a headache and a nosebleed after casting a spell. I think I've refereed to the Willow of the comic books as magic Beyonce, because I do not think giving her so much consequence free power suits her character. What Willow does in this episode matters more, because we know that she is playing with fire just by opening that spell book.
I still don't understand why Buffy on the one hand tells Willow that Buffy herself is no match for Glory and yet constantly says Dawn is safe with Spike. I don't get it! I guess because he was taking her to the caves? I need to just let this go, don't I?
I don't think she means that Dawn is perfectly safe with Spike, but she is as safe as she can be. Buffy knows she cannot kill Glory. If Glory comes for Dawn, Spike could do just as good a job of stalling her as Dawn makes her escape as Buffy could, possibly better, considering the amount of damage vampires can sustain. Glory likes to play with her victims. Spike could probably several rounds with her. And if Glory decided to rip his head off, nobody would weep for him. If it was Buffy covering Dawn's escape, she might not be able to get away herself.

Then again, Dawn seems to agree with you. "... same no-one who did that to your face?"

Ranking of the episodes so far:
The Body
Fool For Love
Forever
Blood Ties
Tough Love
Listening to Fear
Family
Real Me
Crush
Checkpoint
I Was Made to Love You
Triangle
No Place Like Home
Intervention
Shadow
Into the Woods
The Replacement
Buffy vs. Dracula
Out Of My Mind

P.S. What do you think Giles does to that minion while Willow and Anya aren't looking?
 

DeadlyDuo

Scooby
Joined
Jul 29, 2016
Messages
6,571
Age
28
At the start of the episode, Willow tells Tara that she prefers dogs (men) to cats (lesbians).
I'm not sure how you get men=dogs and cats=lesbians (Though it would lend credence to Willow being Bi rather than gay as Willow fell in love with Tara as a person rather than as a gender). Are you thinking cats=pussies=lesbians and dogs= "men are dogs" or dogs= Oz (werewolf)= men?

Maybe that line could also explain Willow's unexplainable interest in Kennedy. Kennedy=bitch=female dog.

In all honesty though, I don't think it's meant to mean more than it says on the tin, Willow prefers dogs to cats. In Season 2, when Angelus killed her fish, she said she was glad her parents didn't let her get a puppy.
 
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Octavia
Octavia
heheh
W

WillowFromBuffy

Guest
I was not thinking of cats/pussies as a euphemism for female genitalia. I do not believe Willow is implying anything about her sexual preference when she calls herself a "dog-person." I think she is merely saying that she is partial to the animal.
 

Grace

Destructo-Girl
Joined
Mar 23, 2017
Messages
1,787
Black Thorn
Spiral

The knights drive me batty, so this is not my favorite episode. BUT it has some very great moments. (Anya with the frying pan?! Yay!) Buffy calling Ben in to help Giles is the perfect twist. (She memorized Ben's number?!) And Giles' very heartfelt words to Buffy are lovely. Of course "Being able to place...your heart...above all else" makes me think of Becoming, and I wonder if getting Giles' approval for the heart-based approach in some way helps reinforce her resolve — even counter to Giles later — to not do what she did with Angel.

I'm getting ahead of myself, but I've never really understood Buffy's line in The Gift about knowing that killing Angel was right. I never previously got the sense that she thought it was "right" so much as the better of two terrible options. And honestly, I don't really believe that Buffy would have let the world end in The Gift. I think she would have let Dawn jump if it came down to it, because she loved so many other people in the world. I do think she would have jumped with Dawn in those circumstances, since it would have been a world she could no longer live in. But I don't think she would make the decision that Giles, Xander, Willow, Anya, Tara, Angel, etc., should all die too. (And that's what I think she means in Season 7 — that she would let Dawn jump if she were willing. Just like she wouldn't kill Spike to prevent trigger-related dangers but would allow him to sacrifice himself.) But that's just my two cents.
 
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WillowFromBuffy

Guest
Spiral

The last episode managed to be a great episode in itself, even if it had to serve the season by starting the events that lead to the finale. This episode feels more intermediary. It does a great job of building tension and excitement, and the action scenes are truly cinematic. However, nothing much happens in this episode. And I prefer Giles's death fake-out in "Grave."

Willow is super powerful. Amber does a great job of playing sick Tara.

"It's Gregor. Now it's not."

I don't really want to start talking about "The Gift" yet, but I want to say this: Buffy ends up going through the portal in Glory's stead. When Willow brings her back in the next season, she suffers from the same issues that Glory does now. I think that occurred to me when thinking about "Tough Love," but I forgot to mention it.,

Ranking of the episodes so far:
The Body
Fool For Love
Forever
Blood Ties
Tough Love
Listening to Fear
Family
Real Me
Crush
Checkpoint
I Was Made to Love You
Triangle
No Place Like Home
Intervention
Spiral
Shadow
Into the Woods
The Replacement
Buffy vs. Dracula
Out Of My Mind
 

Grace

Destructo-Girl
Joined
Mar 23, 2017
Messages
1,787
Black Thorn
The Weight of the World

I totally forgot to post about this one! It's an important episode, I think. But the biggest question I have is: What the heck happened to my favorite bumpy minion? WHERE'S JINX?! I want answers!

I like Willow taking charge. I like Spike's attempts to enlighten everyone to the fact that Ben is Glory. I love the scene where Buffy kills Dawn (in her mind). So haunting. The final scene is chillingly good.

The episode as a whole feels like it moves very slowly. I wonder how they would have done the episode if SMG wasn't filming Scooby-Doo. Also, this is one of those times where Giles seems too mean to Xander.
 
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