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Buffy-Boards Newsletter - Issue 25 - July/August 2011

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I do doodle. You too. You do doodle, too.
Jan 1, 2010
Stockholm, Swe
Black Thorn


Fantastic fall is coming our way... Good day to all, and welcome to another hot issue of the BB Newsletter! Fall is sweeping in but that doesn't mean our beloved boards are slowing down. So what's new around here? Keep on reading...

Are you new to BB and reading the newsletter for the very first time? If you are, its good to have you! This here newsletter is here to keep all of you informed about what's going on at BB with the board itself, as well as helping you get to know some of your new board mates!

If you enjoyed the read, which we know you will, then please pop on over to our Newsletter Feedback thread and tell us what you thought and see the Buffy Boards News Archive for all the past issues if you'd like to have a catch up!​

New Members​
On behalf of all our staff and members, we would like to extend another huge "˜Welcome!' to all those who have joined our community since our last issue. It's really great to have you and we're hope you're getting comfy settling in!

For those of you who may still be feeling a little overwhelmed, there a few things that can help you out. First, be sure to check out our Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) which provides you with lots of information about our rules, as well as giving you a helping hand if you run into any problems.

After browsing through that, there are a few other useful stops you may wish to check out:

*Bad Eggs: We all need a little help from time to time, so who best to help you than your very own personal guide to BB? Get yourself adopted by an existing member and they will show you the ropes, answer any questions and generally take care of you as you settle in. Pop into the forum Bad Eggs and start a thread asking for someone to adopt you and someone will snap you up!

*The Sorting Tome: Pay a visit to the great and mysterious Sorting Tome and get sorted into one of our Dormitories! Once the Tome has posted of your fate, you will find yourself given access to a new part of the forum for you and your fellow dorm mates. It's a great way to meet members and get to know them in a smaller, cosier part of the board.

*Angel Investigations: If you still find yourself with unanswered questions after reading through the FAQ, then this is your next stop. Have a browse through the forum and see if other people have already asked your question and find your answer and if you still need to know something then start a thread in Angel Investigations and we will answer it ASAP.
Please also remember that we have a Confidential Member Concerns Area that you can post in if you would like to keep your enquiry private. Only you and the Board Staff will be able to view it.

Meet the Newbie: Introducing one of our latest Potentials


This is an interview with one of our potentials, you may or may not have seen this Clem-fan posting around the boards already. If you have or haven't I'm sure you'll be glad to be further introduced to: Sullivan who has kindly agreed to answer a few questions for us, so we shall pass you over:

Sullivan said:
1. Hey there Sullivan! How did you find BB? And what were your first thoughts about it?
I stumbled upon the website by accident. I was looking for other opinions on David Boreanaz's Irish accent when I came across a thread dedicated to it
It was good to see I wasn't alone in thinking it was pretty awful, and I got a chuckle out of some of the responses. On first impressions BB looked nice and stylish with its layout and it didn't just look like another forum dedicated to fanboys who'd disrespect you for having a difference of opinion. It definitely looked like a place where one could have a nice mature discussion, and I've certainly found that to be true.

2.Where can you usually be found hanging out? (e.g which forum/s do you frequent most?)
Most likely the Buffy season 2 forum and the "In and Out" sub-forum.

3. Do you have a favourite character from the Buffyverse?
Angel. He reminds me a lot of Batman. Also he's a bit of a tragic hero. He's wreaked a lot of havoc and pain in his long life as a Vampire, and it doesn't seem like he can ever atone for what he's done; however, he keeps trying. He keeps climbing that mountain no matter how enormous or arduous it is. Its his dedication to the Good fight in spite of his past that makes him such an appealing character for me.

4. Have you watched both Angel and Buffy and if you have which do you prefer?
Yes I have watched both, and Angel is probably my favourite of the two, but only just. Buffy plays out more like a soap opera with some ass-kicking thrown in. While Angel has more of a Batman/superhero vibe to it since he can actually predict/sense danger (through the visions). Meanwhile Buffy has to go on patrol or wait for a prophecy to seek out Danger.

5. Speaking of...If you could change one thing from any episode of BtVS what it would be?
More Clem. In every episode.

6. Moving a little off topic now. What other TV shows do you like to watch?
well aside from Buffy and Angel I do enjoy
-The Wire
-Sons of Anarchy
-The X-Files
-Quantum Leap
-Law & Order: Criminal Intent
-Family Guy

7. So aside from television watching, what's an average day like in the life of Sullivan?
It starts with the usual 9-5 grind then heading back home, doing a bit of patrolling around the neighbourhood with my Fiance, and trusty canine(maltese Shihzu) companion. There's been no vampire attacks or sightings yet so we must be doing something right ;). That's usually followed by cooking dinner with my Fiance, then either playing a little Xbox or working on my webcomics.

Thank you very much for a fabulous interview!

Board News


We're still looking for some members to help out with recaps for Dollhouse, BtvS Season 8 and Angel: After the Fall. So, if you've got some free time, or would just like an excuse to re-watch/re-read these series then take a look at the thread here for a little more information on what we need and some links to the style of recaps that we're looking for.
See recaps here.

Each recap will now be awarded 50 house points!


Coming soon to BB near you... :)
Go here to read more: https://www.buffy-boards.com/showthread.php?t=52951

*Buffy season 9 discussion groups have started to roll in with the release of the first issue of Btvs 9th season as well as the new Angel and Faith series!

Go here to find out what it's all about...
Buffy 9.01 - "Freefall.
Angel and Faith 9.01 "Live through thisl

*The BB cookbook is still underway!
Submit your recipes to Angelic Slayer to contribute to this coming treat, go here to read more!

*And don't forget... the BB store is still around for all that pretty swag you need year round

So there you are, lots to be getting to your teeth into around BB!​

Happy Summer time!

Summer maybe be over but we have asked some members to share what made them happy this summer and what episode of Buffy/Angel always puts a smile on your face?

Achromatic Hue said:
1. What made me really happy this summer was the all the time I had to do things with the people I love. I really loved working with my campers, and I almost cried on my last day with them. I also have had a lot of time to work on my artwork outside of school, practice my Spanish, and work on things I didn't have time to do over this year. Time seems to be really one of the most valuable things, and this summer I was blessed with an immense amount of it.

2. What always brings a smile to my face? Definitely, Giles. For me he is a bunch bits and pieces of all of my family members and favorite teachers piled together into a big, wonderful. But what he said that really made me an admirer, was his little speech at the end of Episode 8 of Season 1, where he describes why he loves books so much. I love how he describes books as having texture, and context, and smell. The way he said it was really elegant and beautiful... Whenever I hear 'Giles' I think of that now, and I can't stop smiling. c:

patriot1123 said:
Hi, I'd be happy to contribute but my answers will be pretty boring.
1. Having my son home after his first year away at college.
2.I'm going to say Grave, because it's so Giles-centric and he rocks so; and also because it has so many moments that I absolutely love, like Giles hugging Buffy, Anya getting into the hug, the giggle-fit in the back room, Anya's tenderness toward Giles when he is injured, and of course Xander's getting through to Willow at the end.



Joss Whedon was there, hear what he had to say about Buffy s9 and making his fans suffer


*Sarah Michelle Gellar was there for the first time since 2004! Read more! She was there to promote her new tv-series Ringer; coming soon to a TV near you... :) (Busy Mrs Prinze will also be appearing on the cover of EW magazine, go here to discuss: https://www.buffy-boards.com/showthread.php?t=55671 )

*Women of ComicCon panel


*Eliza Dushku was at ComicCon as well, promoting her roles as Catwoman on the animated "Batman year one" (see more at SFX http://www.sfx.co.uk/2011/07/23/eliza-dushku-exclusive-comic-con-interview/) Eliza Dushku can also be caught on "White Collar"

*Emma Caulfield's "Bandwagon" now has a season 2 to enjoy https://www.buffy-boards.com/showthread.php?t=55085


Happy Birthday Summer Glau! Our beautiful River has turned 30 and is more stunning than ever. Catch her soon in "Knights of badassdom"

"My favorite thing about River is that she gets to be barefoot so much of the time. I don't like shoes very much. The more things I mention the more things she ends up doing, I remember in the first episode I was thinking, 'I really think River needs a gun,' and then by episode 10 she got one. I'm working my way up to captain." - Summer Glau

Quote of the Month
There must be hundreds upon thousands of posts made every month (maybe even every day) here on BB discussing anything you could care to imagine, and more! Each month, some posts jump out amongst the others, for being particularly well written or thought provoking, and here are our picks from the last couple of months:

From: "Is Buffy too forgiving?"
I don't think Buffy is too forgiving. I think she's willing to forgive, and that's a big difference.

Buffy is full of love. She'll give a person a chance to "make amends," but the other person must also do their part. When Buffy sees a real change or knows someone is trying to be a good person, I think she's more willing to forgive.

Yet, in some cases, I think it's hard for Buffy to forget, like with Faith, with Spike in the beginning of s7, and with Angel in s8. She may be willing to forgive, but it's hard to forget. It just takes time.

From: "Angel..."

I really loved him in this season too. Angel was actually my first celebrity crush. I know it's crazy to think about now with all of my obsessive Spike love but I do really appreciate Angel.

I love what he represents and what he's trying to do. He really is just trying to be a really decent human. It's hard enough for some people to be decent humans, let alone a vampire trying to do it.

And I love it when he succeeds and you can see what he's striving for and why he's trying for it so hard.

Season three is a great example of that. :)


Kairos in "What if Bangel don't end up together "“ what then?"
I'm a Christian. We're taught from the cradle to love everyone: neighbors, enemies, strangers, the whole package. Most of us can count on never attaining that level of serenity, but the command is there for a reason. Love is meant to be indiscriminate, shared with others because they're human, and not because we know them. An act of kindness toward a stranger is an act of love. So is adopting a child. So is fighting vampires to keep the streets safe at night, if you're in the right universe for it.

Some people find it easier to feel that love than others. Some people make it easier for others to feel it. An immortal bum who's never had a healthy relationship in his life isn't going to start right in with grand ideas of universal charity. That doesn't mean he's unable to recognize a pure heart in someone else, though, and when he does, it might just be what he needs to get knocked out of his stupor and remember (or learn) what love is. Finding someone who needs help and discovering the desire and potential within oneself to be there for her is by nature an act of love.

Angel didn't know Buffy's favorite movie or her worst memory or what she wanted to be when she grew up. He did know that she was a vulnerable young person about to be sent off to war. A few years worth of in-depth conversation might be a fair reason to fall in love with someone. Is it a better reason than a glimpse of her good and innocent heart? I say no. I say there isn't one.

Kana in "Atonement, redemption and appropriate punishment"

I wrote this on another forum. It looks at the different interpretations of the soul and what implications it can have on the concept of atonement.

The two theories as it states are:

Theory 1: SouledSpike and Angel are seperate from Angelus and SoullessSpike. That is to say there are two spirits inside each of them: the demon who killed without remorse and the human soul which left the body upon vamping and is now in control while the demon is unable to act. For whatever reason the human soul remembers the actions of the demon as if they did them.

Theory 2: The soul is little more than a conscience so Angelus and Spike are just William and Liam with demon physiology killing, lacking the ability to feel guilty for their actions. Angelus was cursed with his conscience and Spike asked for his back and now they look upon their past actions with a different emotional perspective.

Now I was under the impression that theory 1 was out of fashion and on my other thread, I more or less took it as a given that theory 2 was more or less accepted by the fandom.

However for fun lets see the implications both theories have on the Verse.

Theory 1

Why would we think that?

a) This is the first explantion we are given about vampirism and no other theory has been explicitly shown.

"A vampire ...may have the movements, the memories, even the personality of the person that it took over, but it's still a demon at the core"

b) Wesley echoes this in Disharmony.

"That's not your friend. That thing may have your friend's memories, her appearance... But it's just a filthy demon, an unholy monster"

c) Theory 1 rests on the concept of what the soul is. We have references in canon that state the soul is the spirit.

"But her soul ... her essence ... I mean, that could be somewhere else."

In this context the soul has to mean the spirit. I wouldn't make sense to talk about Buffy's conscience being in a hell dimension.

Angel: "He dies, the very instant his soul leaves his body, I'm through this door and I'll kill you both!"

Again, in this context if you replace the word 'soul' with conscience is doesn't make sense.

Now all of these are all well and good but this is the one that really takes the biscuit.

I watched it gut her from the inside out. Everything she was is gone. There is nothing left but a shell.

Then we'll figure out a way to fill it back up.

The thing only took over her body. Just a tip of the theological.

It's the soul that matters.

Trust us. We're kind of experts.

In context of the episode, they are clearly talking about Fred the person, not just her conscience. And Spike, Spike of all people seems to be supporting this. We can't argue that's it's a figure of speech or not coming from the vampire with souls in question nor can we say it's a rationalization. The soul can only mean one thing right? So seen as it's more explicitly used as the spirit, that must be what it is.

Problems, inconsistencies and how to deal with them

a) Ryan Anderson, the boy without a soul: Under this theory it's problematic because he'd be dead or a zombie without a soul, unless he has a vampiric demon animating his body. However it's likely the demon wasn't being literal. He meant that it in the way that someone might call another 'soulless' without believing in the soul. He basically meant the kid was a class A jerk, but he did have a metaphysical soul.

b) Carpe Noctem: For some reason Liam remembers Angelus' acts even though he didn't do them, but when Marcus' soul possesses his body, he doesn't. Although this is never totally explained, it's likely it's to do with the right soul and the right body. Think this is speculation? See Buffy and Faith's body switch. Tara states that if the wrong soul is in the wrong body, it fragments. Liam and William's souls have a natural synergy with their original bodies despite the fact that they are vamped.

What Does It Mean for Angel and Spike's Redemption?

It simply means they are deluded in thinking they did all the horrible things their evil counterpart did. The feel as though they did them, but they didn't. Angel isn't responsible for turning Drusilla into a vampire, nor is Spike responsible for the AR or getting a soul, that was the demon.

In other words, as far as the deeds of Angelus and soullessSpike are concerned, Angel and SoulledSpike have nothing to make up for.

Theory 2

Why Would We Think That?

a) Spike and Angel's apparent continued consciousness. They more consistently say "I did this" or "I did that".

b) The curse would make no sense. Who are they trying to make suffer? Who are they talking about when they say "He must suffer as all his victims have suffered". Under theory 1 it simply doesn't make sense.

b) In Living Conditions, it wouldn't make sense either. It makes more sense that she'd be stealing her conscience, rather than well, Buffy's entire immaterial being.

c) In Carpe Noctem, under theory 1 why doesn't Marcus have Angel's memories. If they are a physical part of his brain then surely he'd be able to remember, like Liam somehow remembers. It seems more likely that the spirit and the soul are two different things.

d) If the Ethros demon is being literal, this is the only theory that make sense.

Problems, inconsistencies and how to deal with them

a) As it's been said, it's likely the WC said that vampires are not the same quantitative
people as their human counterparts because it would b counterproductive for their slayer to think they are dealing with say family members who kind of are the same but different"¦That or they are simply wrong.

b) Why do people say "soul" when they are clearly referring to the spirit?: The reason being is that they are either mistaken or like in the real world, there same words that refer to two different things. In this case the soul can refer to both the spirit and the conscience.

c) What about Spike and Angel's comments in Shells?: We'll admit that it makes more sense that Angel and Spike were referring the soul as spirits but I will say one thing, Angel and Spike may be a lot of things, brave champions, skilled warriors but renowned metaphysicians they ain't.

d) The existence of the spirit doesn't deny the existence of a mystical ball of conscience.

What Does It Mean for Angel and Spike's Redemption

This most closely fits the idea of Angel and Spike's redemption. It makes very little sense to make up for something you didn't do.

Well Theory 1 or Theory 2?

Well I'd choose theory 2 with option of theory 1 as a possibility. Why? Because it's mildly more satisfying than theory 1. I'd still state that under either theory there are no apparent metaphysical differences between Angel and Spike aside from Angel's happiness clause. The differences appear to be psychological in their nature.

Problems, inconsistencies and how to deal with them

From an outside the show perspective, simple inconsistency, which Joss more or less admitted. From the inside the show perspective, it's simply that some people are wrong and some are right. Under either theory we have explain the certain inconsistencies, so it really depends on which one you like the best and how you can justify it.

What Does It Mean for Angel and Spike's Redemption?

I'm one of the few people who aren't bothered by Spike and Angel's redemption because under either theory it's at least a little problematic. Under Theory 1 it's virtually totally brainless. If Angel knows the truth, (that the soul and the demon are separate) then he's an idiotic masochist, either that or he's simply mistaken and from his perspective he can't tell the difference.

Even under theory 2, it's still a little odd to make up for your misdeeds from when you didn't have a conscience. It implies you should be blamed for not listening to a conscience you don't have?? What the soul gives you, keeping in mind Spike's apparent guilt without a soul, seems so mysterious that it hardly seems right to judge them morally, or at least not in the same way as one would if they had a soul and if it doesn't make a difference? Why all the fuss about having one or going out to get one? To me, the concept of redemption under theory 2 doesn't make much more sense, it's merely little less senseless.

Thank you for all those insightful posts, they were great to read! Everyone keep those awesome posts coming and may you'll find one of yours here next issue!

Member Recognition
As always, as we draw to a close it's time to reveal those of you that the staff have chosen to recognise this month.

For our new readers, this is the part of the newsletter, where we take the time to acknowledge those members of BB who have shown respect to their fellow members, helped to keep a friendly environment and generally consistently had an awesome attitude around the board. So, congratulations to:


New Member of the Month: Alyinwonderland

Member of the Month: Goby

New Member of the Month: Sullivan

Member of the Month: Marisa

Congratulations and thank you to you all for being such great members of the community! Keep up your fantastic attitudes!

Sister Site
For those of you looking for a board concerning more mature postings about various entertainment topics the BB has a sister board! Screen Gems :)
"“ so if you're aching to talk about something other than Buffy this is the place to be.
Go over here to check it out: http://www.screen-gems.net/[/CENTER]

We've hope you've enjoyed reading and don't forget to check out how you can help out on the Boards in the coming months!

Until the next issue, be safe, take care of yourselves and happy posting!

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