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Buffy ep by ep; EMPTY PLACES-bootyshaking and heartbreaking

saturn5

Scooby
Joined
Sep 13, 2009
Messages
937
Into the last 5

EMPTY PLACES

The Good;
Spike and Andrew's road trip, the girls shaking their stuff at the Bronze.

The Bad;
So harrowing watching Buffy cast out after all she's been through. Again why doesn't Caleb take Buffy prisoner or something when he knocks her out? Anya says Buffy is 'luckier' than everyone else to be the Slayer but it hardly seems to be much of a prize? The Hellmouth influenced cops also seem a very handy contrivance.

Best line;
Rhona (on Buffy leaving) "Ding dong, the witch is dead!"
Dawn; (rounding on her) "SHUT YOUR MOUTH!" (about time someone slapped Rhona down!)

Women good/men bad;

More misogyny from Caleb

Jeez!;
Hardest thing to watch is Dawn telling Buffy to leave (as she states, Revello Drive is her home too). Equally the scenes between Willow and Xander in hospital are so sad. Faith get's some nasty beatings although Angelus claims she's actually still looking for someone to beat the evil out of her.

Kinky dinky;
Anya refers to her and Xander's break-up sex to the Potentials, Faith reminds everyone she had him first. Speaking of which Faith starts putting the moves on Wood, who if not a boyfriend Buffy was attracted to and had at least one date with. Caleb speaks of the 'sweet pleasure of taming Buffy' which is odd phrasing for a guy who claims to abhor women especially in the sexual sense.
Faith flirts with the cops who've come to arrest her, she must have a thing for the uniform (and maybe the handcuffs, nightsticks and fast cars?) as we've seen her do this before in Bad Girls ("I like him, he's butch"). To judge by her commentaries on Tru Calling ED feels the same way. Interestingly she later refers to Buffy as a cop even after recieving a thorough nightsticking and punch on the jaw.

Captain Subtext;
Giles hints that Buffy's partiality for her vampire boyfriends costs lives, alluding to Jenny Calender. Spike and Andrew bond on their road-trip over bar food. Spike threatens to bite Andrew which he has done before. With Willow away Kennedy chooses to dance with Dawn at the Bronze. Dawn seems to have lost her antipathy towards Faith and they seem tight from now on. Perhaps that's another reason Buffy's mad with Faith, she's put the moves on her boyfriends and now seems to be winning over Dawn, her other great love?

Guantanamo Bay;
Buffy and co have a long talk about how they're not a democracy, that it takes one strong individual leader to be effective.

Scoobies to the ER;
Faith nastily bashed up but Slayer healing takes care of it all.

Missing scenes;

Apocalypses; 7,

Wheldon Cliches (with kind permission from Boo)

Scoobies in bondage:
Buffy: 9
Giles: 4
Cordy: 5
Will: 4
Jenny: 1
Angel: 4
Oz: 1
Faith: 3
Joyce: 1
Wes: 1
Xander; 3
Dawn; 4
Spike; 4

Scoobies knocked out: poor Buff
Buffy: 23
Giles: 12
Cordy: 6
Xander: 16
Will: 10
Jenny: 2
Angel: 6
Oz: 3
Faith: 1
Joyce: 3
Wes: 1
Anya;7
Dawn; 6
Tara; 1
Spike; 3
Kennedy; 1

Kills:
Buffy: 125 vamps, 62 demons, 6 monsters, 10 humans, 1 werewolf, 1 spirit warrior & a robot
Giles: 8 vamps, 2 demons, 2 humans/1 god.
Will: 6 vamps + 3 demons +1 fawn+1 human.
Oz: 3 vamps, 1 zombie
Faith: 19 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans.
Xander: 6 vamps, 2 zombies, 1½ a demon, 2 humans
Anya: 1 vamp and 1½ a demon
Riley; 18 vamps + 7 demons
Spike; 11 vamps and 7 demons+1 human
Buffybot; 2 vamps
Tara; 1 demon
Dawn; 1 vamp + 1 demon
Kennedy; 1 human+1 vampire
Amanda; 1 vampire
Woods; 5 vamps and 2 demons

Scoobies go evil:
Giles: 1
Cordy: 1
Will: 4
Jenny: 1
Angel: 1
Oz: 1
Joyce: 1
Xander: 4
Anya; 1
Dawn; 1
Buffy; 1
Spike; 1
Wood; 1

Alternate scoobies:
Buffy: 8
Giles: 4
Cordy: 1
Will: 6
Jenny: 2
Angel: 3
Oz: 2
Joyce: 2
Xander: 4
Tara; 1
Dawn;1
Spike; 1
Anya; 2

Recurring characters killed: 16,
Jesse, Flutie, Jenny, Kendra, Larry, Snyder, Professor Walsh, Forrest, McNamara, Joyce, Katrina, Tara, Quentin Travers, Chloe, Molly, Jonathon.

Sunnydale deaths;
107

Total number of scoobies: 35 or so. Anya back but no Vi again. We never ever actually get to see all the recurring potentials (those with names and dialogue) together until the final ep.
Xander, Buffy, Dawn, Willow, Anya, Spike, Giles, Kennedy, Vi, Rhona, Amanda, Chao-Anh, Wood, Andrew, Faith plus an indeterminate number of potentials.

Xander demon magnet: 6(7?)
Preying Mantis Lady, Inca Mummy Girl, Drusilla, VampWillow, Anya, Lissa (arguably Buffy & Faith with their demon essences?), Dracula?

Scoobies shot:
Giles: 2
Angel: 3
Oz: 4
Riley; 1
Buffy; 1
Tara; 1

Notches on Scooby bedpost:
Giles: 2; Joyce & Olivia, possibly Jenny and 3xDraccy babes?
Buffy: 4 confirmed; Angel, Parker, Riley, Spike. 3 possible, Dracula+RJ+Shadowmen's demon(?)
Joyce: 1;Giles, 2 possible, Ted and Dracula(?)
Oz: 3; Groupie, Willow & Verucca
Faith:3 ;Xander, Riley, Bullwhip guy
Xander: 2; Faith, Anya
Willow: 2;Oz and Tara
Riley; 3; Buffy, Sandy and unnamed vampwhore
Spike; 2 Buffy and Anya
Anya; 2 Spike and Xander

Dawn in peril; 14

Dawn the bashful virgin; 9

What the fanficcers thought;
Caleb's phrase 'the sweet pleasure of taming Buffy' makes you wonder if he reads Mr X/conquered superheroines fanfic? Read an interesting fic once where we discover that Caleb's mother was Slayer who was sired and he was forced to kill her as a young boy as she tortured him. It was very well written, actually made you feel sorry for this screwed up monster.

Questions and observations;
It's Dawn who makes the breakthrough regarding the mission, her junior Watcher role really coming along, Giles even teaching her like his pupil. Andrew wears the same football helmet as Dawn wore when she rode on Spike's motorcycle (is it Hanks? I can't imagine Joyce, Buffy or Dawn playing American football?). Faith stops Amanda drinking alcohol at the Bronze, already adopting the leadership role. Last appearance of Clem on the show although he's back in the comics as Harmony's 'friend'. If you can't pierce the UberVamps sternum with your stake why not stab then upwards under the ribcage so you don't have to? Holy Water does affect them (Showtime)but not as much it does ordinary vamps. SMG hoarse again, both as Buffy AND The First. The SDPD have changed their uniforms but not their cars. Actually I would rate Jaws 3D as the second best in the series although a LONG way behind the fabulous original. Buffy doesn't want to talk about Xander not because she doesn't care but because she finds it too painful. Note Buffy doesn't actually object to Faith taking the girls to the Bronze, she just doesn't want them drunk and fighting.
Marks out of 10; 8/10
 
Joined
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I was pretty happy they told her off. :) People act like the scoobies were soooo unappreciative. How long would she have lasted without them, I wonder? Buffy in The Wish alternate reality didn't last and I don't presume that she had anyone other than a watcher.

Anya says Buffy is 'luckier' than everyone else to be the Slayer but it hardly seems to be much of a prize?
It really isn't much of a prize. Anya was right about her thinking she's better than everyone, though. She said it in Conversations With Dead People!
 

MinwaraYana

Countess Von Drunkaton
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I don't know what to say about the end. I don't wanna think who's right or wrong.

It's painful to see the aftermath of what happened in Dirty Girls. Faith is so sweet that she didn't hit Buffy back.

I love The Bronze scene, though. It's the last time we would see The Bronze. And yay that Nerf Herder was the last band who performed on the stage. ;)
 

saturn5

Scooby
Joined
Sep 13, 2009
Messages
937
I was pretty happy they told her off. :) People act like the scoobies were soooo unappreciative. How long would she have lasted without them, I wonder? Buffy in The Wish alternate reality didn't last and I don't presume that she had anyone other than a watcher.


It really isn't much of a prize. Anya was right about her thinking she's better than everyone, though. She said it in Conversations With Dead People!

I think the whole point as Spike stated in Fool for Love that it's the Scoobs that make the difference for her, that Dawn & co mean she survives in both body and mind whilst all the others die. It's still a tough scene to watch, part of the appeal of Buffy/Angel is we like the gang of friends and their interplay and affection for one another, it's upsetting to see them fight:nibble6:
 
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Spike and Andrew's road trip. That was so good :)

I was mad at Scoobyes. Especially Dawn. This is the episode I started disliking her again. And I don't agree with the Anya when she says Buffy is luckier. Yep, if she was a normak girl in Sunnydale, she would probably end up dead, but being a Slayer, that was a hard way to live, and as we saw in the show, she wished she was dead.

7/10
 
E
Eleftheria
Spike and Andrew talking was probably the only funny thing in that episode!!!:)
E
EveryNiteISaveU
I agree re: Dawn.
M
Misty
Agreed. Buffy was grabbed out of her normal life too!
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EvilBuffy
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Eleftheria

Scooby
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I have expressed my opinion in another thread I think on that episode.

Generally, I am very disappointed mostly by Dawn, Willow and Anya.I already disliked the potentials so, i was used to their inappropriate and rude behaviour.

Dawn,IMO, showed extreme disrespect towards her sister who has died for her, quit college for her, got a job for her and saved her from practically hundreds of people who wanted her dead when she was the Key, and after that of course.I wonder how she can talk of"loving her sister" after this behaviour.

Willow's behaviour is also unacceptable. For so long, Buffy had been a good friend, never judgemental and helped her when she got addicted. Will once became Dark Willow and wanted to destroy the world, but still everyone was trying to bring her back to her senses. How dare she, really?

And Anya...she was a vengeance demon, a human and then a demon all over again...willingly.So, she calls Buffy luckier than the others, after 7 years of slaying, two deaths and many sacrifices?

Faith had a point,she didn't kick Buffy out of the house, she even tried to apologise to her. She just had a history with her and had a different opinion about how the Potentials should be treated. Faith,btw, IS a Slayer. So that gives her the right to work with Buffy. The Potentials have absolutely NO IDEA about strategics or real battles.

Xander,is forgiven in my heart only, cause of his recent serious wound but mostly cause he gave the Potentials a speech which made Buffy(and me btw) have tears.

I don't know what to say about Giles. Things between him and Buffy were already intense from "Lies my Parents Told me"...I don't know.
 
W
Wishing Oceans
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EveryNiteISaveU
Yes. To everything.
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Spiciu
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EvilBuffy
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GrrArghx

No touching my clipboard!
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I can't even form words on my opinion about them kicking her out. It pisses me off so freakin' much I swear. They were all ridiculously ungreatful and although Spike told them off later, which I loved, he should've told them off just a little bit more. lol
 
E
Eleftheria
He could beat them up...I would definitely support him!
M
Misty
You said my opinion! And I would also be on Spike's side if he kicked their butts!
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EvilBuffy
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Buffy did a lot for them yes but...She would not have lasted as long as she did without the scoobies. I imagine she would have stayed dead after facing The Master. It's not like their relationship was all take on the part of Willow, Xander, and the rest. She seemed pretty ungrateful toward them.

---------- Post added at 06:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:45 PM ----------



I forgot to add this:

Buffy Transcript 141 Empty Places


FAITH
I didn't come here to take anything away from you, but I'm not gonna be your little lapdog, either. I came here to beat the other guy, to do right, however it works. I don't know if I can lead. But the real question is...can you follow?
ROBIN WOOD
So we vote.
BUFFY
Wait. Guys -
Buffy looks around - Anya's crossed her arms and stares back with pursed lips; Willow looks away - Buffy searches their faces.
BUFFY
I can't watch you just throw away everything that - (looks at Xander and at Dawn, who's not meeting her glance; Buffy holds her head up high) I know I'm right about this. I just need a little - I can't stay here and watch her lead you into some disaster.
DAWN
(stands, walks up to Buffy, softly) Then you can't stay here. Buffy, I love you, but you were right. We have to be together on this. You can't be a part of it. (Buffy blinks her eyes in disbelief) So I need you to leave. I'm sorry, but this is my house, too.

---

The "This is my house too" thing was a little weird because Dawn does nothing to contribute to maintaining it. But anyway, Buffy said that she couldn't stay there! They just took it further.
 
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Wishing Oceans
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SlayerOfVampyrs
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saturn5

Scooby
Joined
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Messages
937
Spike and Andrew's road trip. That was so good :)

I was mad at Scoobyes. Especially Dawn. This is the episode I started disliking her again. And I don't agree with the Anya when she says Buffy is luckier. Yep, if she was a normak girl in Sunnydale, she would probably end up dead, but being a Slayer, that was a hard way to live, and as we saw in the show, she wished she was dead.

7/10

If Buffy was a normal girl in Sunnydale she'd be saved by whoever is the Slayer (Kendra, Faith etc).

Dawn does love Buffy, everyone does but they disagree with her strategy, after the death of the Potentials and Xander's maiming they wouldn't be human if they didn't have doubts. And Buffy's idea of another frontal attack does seem crazy, her refined strategy later seems much more sensible
 
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Yeah, but in Helpless she was quick and smart only because she had experience. Look just how easly Angelus killed Theresa or Vamp Will that girl in the Bronze. She would be scared if she didn't knew what's going on.
 

saturn5

Scooby
Joined
Sep 13, 2009
Messages
937
Yeah, but in Helpless she was quick and smart only because she had experience. Look just how easly Angelus killed Theresa or Vamp Will that girl in the Bronze. She would be scared if she didn't knew what's going on.

Remains to be seen, look at Dawn and Joyce, those Summers girls are tough::bbat::
 

white avenger

white avenger
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Strangely, I've always felt kind of sorry for Faith in this episode. I think that she was honestly only trying to suggest a different strategy, not defy Buffy's command, and then everything got blown out of proportion. That's why I think that Buffy should have taken her lieutenants off somewhere private and discussed her plans, giving her reasons and beliefs, before springing it on everyone all at once. What resulted was mutiny, pure and simple, and the gang was wrong in their actions, but the whole thing would have been avoided completely if Buffy could have had the support of Faith, Willow, and Giles (Xander wasn't there at the time).

The way things worked out, Faith's only choice was to assume command in Buffy's absence. No one else there was really qualified for the job.
 
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sosa lola
I agree. I think of all the characters, Faith came out the best in this episode
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EveryNiteISaveU
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Spiciu
true

Flannen

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I've said this before in another thread but I really don't think that the Scoobies were that out of line. I mean, it's an uncomfortable scene to watch, sure, but not because I think they're being disrespectful.

I actually get angry at some of the things that Buffy says in that scene, especially when she behaves like a 12 year old and starts her 'whine, whine, Faith killed people, blah blah blah, which I actually found completely disgusting. Of all the people in that room Buffy should have given Faith some recognition to what Faith had accomplished, but even after all those years Buffy just wasn't mature enough to do that.

Everyone goes on about how the Scoobies needed to be more grateful but hardly any one thinks about how maybe Buffy needed to be a bit more grateful. I don't necessarily condone how the whole thing went down, but Buffy is not entirely blameless and she most certainly needed to be taken down a peg or two.

Anyway, now that's off my chest...*strolls away humming to self*
 
T
ToShanshuInLA
BUT BUFFY CAN DO NO WRONG!!!!!1 I agree.
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sosa lola
I completely agree with every word you said
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SlayerOfVampyrs
Brilliant!

white avenger

white avenger
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I've said this before in another thread but I really don't think that the Scoobies were that out of line. I mean, it's an uncomfortable scene to watch, sure, but not because I think they're being disrespectful.

I actually get angry at some of the things that Buffy says in that scene, especially when she behaves like a 12 year old and starts her 'whine, whine, Faith killed people, blah blah blah, which I actually found completely disgusting. Of all the people in that room Buffy should have given Faith some recognition to what Faith had accomplished, but even after all those years Buffy just wasn't mature enough to do that.

Everyone goes on about how the Scoobies needed to be more grateful but hardly any one thinks about how maybe Buffy needed to be a bit more grateful. I don't necessarily condone how the whole thing went down, but Buffy is not entirely blameless and she most certainly needed to be taken down a peg or two.

Anyway, now that's off my chest...*strolls away humming to self*

I think that Buffy definitely made mistakes in this episode. As I said above, she should have met privately with her core group, including Faith, to discuss plans and strategy. That was most definitely NOT something to work out in front of an audience of assorted Potentials, an ex-super villain, and a high school principal.

Probably her biggest mistake, however, was in not standing her ground in the face of the resulting mutiny. If there ever was a "My way or the highway" moment, that was most definitely it. No, Buffy was not entirely right in what she did, and the others weren't entirely wrong in their objections, but one fact remains constant, set in stone, not open for discussion.

Buffy was the one in charge. It was something that everyone was perfectly happy to abide by just as long as she was the one taking the risks, facing the danger, and doing the bleeding with basically no real help with the exception of Spike, who, despite anything that Giles wanted to admit, WAS the one who was actually watching Buffy's back while everyone else stood back and cheered them on. Once the others had to start earning their way, suddenly they wanted to get a new leader (and we saw just how well THAT turned out). Even Buffy's closest friends, the "Wicca who won't-a," the guy who sees all and fixes the windows, and the mentor who was never there, had contributed far less to the actual fight that season than they ever had before.

To steal a scene from one of my favorite stories, Buffy should have taken a page from William Barrett Travis' book when he drew a line in the sand in the Alamo. "Anyone willing to pull their own load, to fight to the death, if necessary, cross over the line. Anyone not willing to make that commitment, to accept those conditions, to accept my command, and follow my orders, no hard feelings. Pack up your gear, get out, and good luck, because as bad as things are here, they're at least ten times worse outside." It was Buffy's house, and they were only guests there. She got to make the rules, and they got to either abide by them, or hit the street.
 
Kean
Kean
It was my way or the highway implies a choice, Buffy didn't get one, she was kicked out...I don't know if I will ever not be bitter about this!
crazysoulless
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Misty
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Wishing Oceans

I don't think, I know.
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I've thought that Buffy has been too haughty and self- absorbed during the whole run of the show. As Glory said, "so you're stronger than humans. Who isn't?" She DID think that being the slayer made her different, special, and in control.

I think it was very cruel to kick her out of her own home, though. None of those people pay the rent, do they? No. What gives them the right? They're just imposing guests. It's Buffy's house, and it seems like Buffy is getting bullied.

But still, I have to agree with the scoobies, being the slayer doesn't make her god. She wasn't by any means the most powerful person in the room, and she needed to be brought down a notch. But it was still difficult to watch.
 
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